Every Calder Valley Leeds-bounds service late

[TUC]

How do you know they are doing nothing about it?

Consider that any errors will need to be identified, understood and rectified in the database before they can even consider then getting the data to the train. Northern have a lot of these units to update so it would not be surprising to find several different versions of the PIS database running around. I'm speaking as someone involved in another new fleet that has some PIS glitches - simple issues with simple fixes don't always mean simple execution.

Given that this issue has been going on for several weeks, and includes issues like completely the wrong station being announced, I think the public have every right to be impatient about it. Yes it needs analysis, but that is unlikely to be several weeks' worth of analysis.

At the very least, guards should do their own announcements on a consistent and reliable basis until it is rectified.

 

[tpjm]

Consider that any errors will need to be identified, understood and rectified in the database before they can even consider then getting the data to the train. Northern have a lot of these units to update so it would not be surprising to find several different versions of the PIS database running around. I'm speaking as someone involved in another new fleet that has some PIS glitches - simple issues with simple fixes don't always mean simple execution.

Please consider that there are a lot of very good people working on these new trains projects across all the TOCs rolling out new fleets. The tone of your posts sounds like you believe people don't care. I'm not even involved in the Cl195/331 project but I know there are some very dedicated people in Northern who really do give a ****.

The reality is this - what would you rather have? A nice new train that gets confused every so often (so the guard has to manually announce) or a Cl 142 with no screens or auto-annoucements?

 

[TUC]

Please consider that there are a lot of very good people working on these new trains projects across all the TOCs rolling out new fleets. The tone of your posts sounds like you believe people don't care. I'm not even involved in the Cl195/331 project but I know there are some dedicated people in Northern.

The reality is this - what would you rather have? A nice new train that gets confused every so often (so the guard has to manually announce) or a Cl 142 with no screens or auto-annoucements?

If only guards could be relied on to consistently make manual announcements. They weren't reliable to do this with the old trains.

 

[TUC]

I think there is also a more fundamental problem in that, rightly or wrongly, many passengers feel that Northern hasn't got a grip on running its business or managing its staff, so simply don't trust them to address these issues well. The fact that people feel that way is Northern's fault, not the passengers.

 

[tpjm]

I think there is also a more fundamental problem in that, rightly or wrongly, many passengers feel that Northern hasn't got a grip on running its business or managing its staff, so simply don't trust them to address these issues well. The fact that people feel that way is Northern's fault, not the passengers.

Just making the point that PIS isn't "change a few bits and pieces, push simple button to send to all trains" - no matter how much I wish it was.

 

[Llama]

Forgive my lack of knowledge on the exact spec of the ASDO system in the Northern units, but I wasn't aware that you were protected by a 'wrong side release' with ASDO, which is what your post seems to suggest?

Asdo doesn't really protect against a wrong side door release.

 

[johntea]

Just making the point that PIS isn't "change a few bits and pieces, push simple button to send to all trains" - no matter how much I wish it was.

I find this bizarre, obviously not for older stock but new stock is now basically WiFi as standard so surely the PIS screens should be hooked up to that then they could in fact push a simple button to send to all trains and then there wouldn't be the issue of still showing strike action from July 2018 in July 2019 and the like!

 

[TUC]

The 0545 Hebden Bridge-Leeds was cancelled again this morning. Considering there is not another service for 45 mins, and it is the key service for connecting at Leeds for those who need to get to London for 0900, it is just about the worst service for both Leeds and longer distance workers to cancel at that time of the morning. Even when such cancellations cannot be avoided, there does seem to be a lack of strategic judgement as to which cancellation will have the least harmful effect.

Bizarrely, the stated reason for the cancellation was due to the inbound service being late which, given it is the first train of the day, seems inherently unlikely.

This morning exactly the same train was cancelled again between Hebden Bridge and Halifax, and is running 13 minutes late from Halifax. Do Northern really put no effort into at least making sure the same train isn't cancelled two days in a row?

 

[thejuggler]

Yesterday points problem at Leeds. This morning over running works on line between Hebden Bridge and Brighouse.

More delays, more cancellations.

 

[Gems]

Far too many give Northern far too much credit. It stands to reason such a shocking company would inevitably go for such a shocking unit as the 195 and 331. No surprise the director responsible for the debacle is retiring. I'd retire also, wouldn't want to be tarred with this brush.
Latest rumour is that 333009 went to Derby for detailed inspection and has never returned. Been condemned as a total rust bucket write off. Been known for some time that the chassis have cracks. As for 333010, the floor creaks when you walk through the carriage, it's like an old house with dodgy floorboards.

So what's Northern's response to all this. Order a load of replacement 331s. It's like a throw back to the 80's and the days of the Lada. If in doubt order a new one, bound to be cheaper than the first. You can debate the wonder of Northern until the cows come home, but sooner or later the truth will come out.

 

[Bantamzen]

Far too many give Northern far too much credit. It stands to reason such a shocking company would inevitably go for such a shocking unit as the 195 and 331. No surprise the director responsible for the debacle is retiring. I'd retire also, wouldn't want to be tarred with this brush.
Latest rumour is that 333009 went to Derby for detailed inspection and has never returned. Been condemned as a total rust bucket write off. Been known for some time that the chassis have cracks. As for 333010, the floor creaks when you walk through the carriage, it's like an old house with dodgy floorboards.

So what's Northern's response to all this. Order a load of replacement 331s. It's like a throw back to the 80's and the days of the Lada. If in doubt order a new one, bound to be cheaper than the first. You can debate the wonder of Northern until the cows come home, but sooner or later the truth will come out.

You bemoan the 333s, which have been a workhorse on the Aire / Wharfe services through three different franchises. Then you moan about them introducing the new CAF stock (which in the context of the former lines replace the 321/322s, which are definitely showing their age). So I for one am unsure what exactly it is you want them to do? Not order new stock? Take the 333s out of service? Do both and have a massive shortfall of EMUs? Keep the Pacers on for another 20 years?

I disagree that the CAF units are "shocking". Yes they are having issues, but take a look around these forums and tell me of one new type of stock that has had a seamless introduction? We have had comments from people actually working the units that they are taking time to bed in, especially on parts of the network that haven't seen from new introductions for a very long time, i.e. most of the Northern network. These same people do say that once crews get used to them, things will be a good deal better along the Calder Valley.

 

[TUC]

Can anyone clarify what the situation is on the Calder Valley line today? It is said to be due to over running engineering work but disruption is expected to the end of the day. What is the over running work that has caused this extrnt of disruption rather than just early morning problems?

 

[trainmananthon]

Can anyone clarify what the situation is on the Calder Valley line today? It is said to be due to over running engineering work but disruption is expected to the end of the day. What is the over running work that has caused this extrnt of disruption rather than just early morning problems?

I believe it was a failed tamper blocking the points at Greetland Junction

 

[Spartacus]

Points run through by tamper and also a fatality at Smithy Bridge.

 

[Neptune]

Latest rumour is that 333009 went to Derby for detailed inspection and has never returned. Been condemned as a total rust bucket write off.

I heard from a very reliable colleague today at Northern that 333009 is highly likely to be written off and withdrawn. Still some work to do to see if it can be repaired but the cost could be too prohibitive.

 

[Gems]

You bemoan the 333s, which have been a workhorse on the Aire / Wharfe services through three different franchises. Then you moan about them introducing the new CAF stock (which in the context of the former lines replace the 321/322s, which are definitely showing their age). So I for one am unsure what exactly it is you want them to do? Not order new stock? Take the 333s out of service? Do both and have a massive shortfall of EMUs? Keep the Pacers on for another 20 years?

I disagree that the CAF units are "shocking". Yes they are having issues, but take a look around these forums and tell me of one new type of stock that has had a seamless introduction? We have had comments from people actually working the units that they are taking time to bed in, especially on parts of the network that haven't seen from new introductions for a very long time, i.e. most of the Northern network. These same people do say that once crews get used to them, things will be a good deal better along the Calder Valley.

My first car was a Vauxhall Viva that fell apart. Guess what? I bought a ford Escort the next time.
CAF are crap, they build crap, but they are cheap as chips. Only cheap and nasty will do for the north.

 

[Gems]

I heard from a very reliable colleague today at Northern that 333009 is highly likely to be written off and withdrawn. Still some work to do to see if it can be repaired but the cost could be too prohibitive.

Corrosion with the 333's has been known for a while. They have been monitoring chassis cracks for many years.

 

[Neptune]

Corrosion with the 333's has been known for a while. They have been monitoring chassis cracks for many years.

Since the same problems occurred on the 332’s in fact. They are a cracking unit (literally as well as metaphorically it seems) and shift crowds really well and quickly but sadly the usual CAF build quality is coming home to roost. It’s a shame as the Siemens bits of them are decent enough.

Northern are looking at getting spares should the 332’s go for scrap, they may need to look at an entire unit if 009 is kaput.

 

[Bantamzen]

My first car was a Vauxhall Viva that fell apart. Guess what? I bought a ford Escort the next time.
CAF are crap, they build crap, but they are cheap as chips. Only cheap and nasty will do for the north.

Well here's the thing, what are they replacing? Even cheaper units, long past their expected life. The CAF u units are a massive step up from what they are replacing. That they don't live up to the demands of some members of RUK cannot detract from that. And even if they are cheaper than other builders (though I have not seen any figures to back this up), what exactly was anyone expecting from a franchise that is committed to increasing capacity, replacing Pacers, making existing stock accessibility compliant, and meeting reduced subsidies as demanded by DfT. CAF were in a position to supply a large new fleet, inside a few years and within a budget set by those previous parameters. It was either that or wait for a few more years as the rest of the fleet rattled themselves to bits. These aren't excuses, these are the conditions in which the franchise operates.

Given the choice of new stock with teething problems, or old stock with worsening performance, I know what I would choose. Maybe you'd prefer to moan about 142s not showing up because they were failing more and more as they were run even further into the ground?

 

[Class195]

Can anyone clarify what the situation is on the Calder Valley line today? It is said to be due to over running engineering work but disruption is expected to the end of the day. What is the over running work that has caused this extrnt of disruption rather than just early morning problems?

I was told at Bradford Interchange that they hoped to start running at 5pm, but saw the next two were cancelled and caught the X6.

More two-car 150s working Blackpool to York today.

Where are all the 158s?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Had my first two rides on 195s this weekend on the Calder Valley. Don't know what the whingeing is about. Both were bang on time and I'll tell you what, they ate up the Manchester Christmas Market crowds on Saturday morning like nothing else.

I'm no fan of Northern, but this is getting silly now. The ASDO software is a bit buggy. Hardly a massive issue and nor is it a surprise with a new train. I can't name a fleet that DID work 100% straight out of the box.

 

[oscarthecat92]

Corrosion with the 333's has been known for a while. They have been monitoring chassis cracks for many years.

The 333 issues have led to them being enable to run the full Airedale timetable most days since mid-September. The 0730 Skipton to Leeds is cancelled more weekdays than not, and the one after it is now usually a 321 which ends up too full to get on.

Surely with all the new 331s sitting around they could do better than this and sub in more 331s?

 

[Geeves]

A lot of issues yesterday were made ten times worse by TPE at Victoria with trains sat everywhere blocking up the platforms, that inevitably lead to Calder Valley services being stuck outside for an hour or more while they sorted out their mess.

Where are the protests outside the TPE stations and and the endless stream of bad press? Why is poster Gem not getting on TPEs back?

The only new member of staff at Northern is the director and he takes his orders from the DFT and strangely enough things have gotten alot worse since the new timetable (DFT), The new trains (DFT spec) Strikes (DOO as ordered by the government in the ITT spec). Seemed to run pretty well before. I love how Northern has been made into this omnipotent being that hates passengers and wants all the old and fragile to be left freezing outside while "Northern" sits and laughs. Its getting ridiculous the hatred.

Also yesterday there was a fatality at Smithy bridge in addition to the derailed tamper.

 

[tpjm]

A lot of issues yesterday were made ten times worse by TPE at Victoria with trains sat everywhere blocking up the platforms, that inevitably lead to Calder Valley services being stuck outside for an hour or more while they sorted out their mess.

Let’s not start this again... TPE do not “block up MCV”. If a train has to terminate short, it’s up to the signaller you do something about it. There’s two bay platforms, a turn back siding and Eccles loop available for use before you even have to start thinking about stacking in the through platforms so I highly doubt your suggestion that Calder Valley services were waiting outside for an hour.

I agree with your sentiment about Northern becoming some kind of evil monster in the media, but slating TPE who are currently suffering similar (if not quite as severe) issues, is a bit hypocritical.

 

[TUC]

Had my first two rides on 195s this weekend on the Calder Valley. Don't know what the whingeing is about. Both were bang on time and I'll tell you what, they ate up the Manchester Christmas Market crowds on Saturday morning like nothing else.

I'm no fan of Northern, but this is getting silly now. The ASDO software is a bit buggy. Hardly a massive issue and nor is it a surprise with a new train. I can't name a fleet that DID work 100% straight out of the box.

It's a very big issue if you're visually impaired and relying on it to get off at the right staff, or indeed sighted and are misled by the incorrect screens.

 

[TUC]

A lot of issues yesterday were made ten times worse by TPE at Victoria with trains sat everywhere blocking up the platforms, that inevitably lead to Calder Valley services being stuck outside for an hour or more while they sorted out their mess.

Where are the protests outside the TPE stations and and the endless stream of bad press? Why is poster Gem not getting on TPEs back?

The only new member of staff at Northern is the director and he takes his orders from the DFT and strangely enough things have gotten alot worse since the new timetable (DFT), The new trains (DFT spec) Strikes (DOO as ordered by the government in the ITT spec). Seemed to run pretty well before. I love how Northern has been made into this omnipotent being that hates passengers and wants all the old and fragile to be left freezing outside while "Northern" sits and laughs. Its getting ridiculous the hatred.

.

If Arriva/Northern didn't want to take the flak for the new trains or the other requirements they needn't have bid for the franchise. Since they did, they need to get on and deliver.

 

[Bovverboy]

Let’s not start this again... TPE do not “block up MCV”. If a train has to terminate short, it’s up to the signaller you do something about it. There’s two bay platforms, a turn back siding and Eccles loop available for use before you even have to start thinking about stacking in the through platforms so I highly doubt your suggestion that Calder Valley services were waiting outside for an hour.

No, but a few were held for over half an hour, Here's one.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y62133/2019-12-03/detailed

 

[175001]

How can anyone defend TPE at the moment is beyond me. They are just as horrific and run less services. At Victoria its the northern staff who have to take the flack for another company's inability

 

[Llama]

No, but a few were held for over half an hour, Here's one.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y62133/2019-12-03/detailed

That's quite an unfortunate example to use, I don't know how the delay attribution system can be so specific as to seemingly diagnose the passenger's illness.

As for TPE, the fact that Northern crew are booked 'pass' on so many of their services puts a big dent in Northern's performance. Whether that or the diagramming of Northern crew is the root cause of those delays is open to conjecture but the end result is the same.

 

[Bovverboy]

No, but a few were held for over half an hour, Here's one.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y62133/2019-12-03/detailed

That's quite an unfortunate example to use

Actually, I hadn't seen the delay attribution (which, of course, was only there because the train was ultimately terminated short of its booked destination).

I don't know how the delay attribution system can be so specific as to seemingly diagnose the passenger's illness.

Has it done? As to a passenger being taken ill, it seems unlikely that the entirety of the hour's total delay was down to that cause. All services to, or through, Victoria were being seriously delayed or cancelled at that time, for reasons which have been well documented.