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Tyne and Wear Metro - industrial action (overtime ban)

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jkkne

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Looks like chaos is in store for Tyneside and Wearside from Sunday as Nexus confirms the impact of the work to rule action will have on its services.

it’s colour coded each day green, amber and red. Red looks like essentially a don’t travel warning (akin to its Beast from the East timetable).

Almost beggars belief a service can be crippled by work to rule, questions to be asked and answered all round.

details are here
https://www.nexus.org.uk/travelling-metro-during-industrial-action
 
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ainsworth74

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Almost beggars belief a service can be crippled by work to rule, questions to be asked and answered all round.

It just brings to the surface just how much Tyne & Wear Metro (like the 'big' railway) relies on overtime to deliver the basic timetable. That certainly makes things cheaper to run on a day to day basis but means that you're much more reliant on the goodwill of staff to work more than they have to. Now usually they can be relied on to value the extra pay in the pocket. But if you damage that goodwill...
 

jkkne

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Indeed, the attack on drivers doesn’t seem to have rinsed well with the public up here.

likely because nexus are about as well liked as Maggie Thatcher in a pit village...
 

Paul_10

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When you thought things could not get worse, they sure can.

As ever two sides to every story and Nexus seem reluctant to tell what changes the drivers have to do in order to receive this 15% pay rise.

I fear this will be like the Northern fiasco of those strikes on Saturday that occurred, it will be a long drawn out process.

I'm guessing this also means no extra Xmas services this year either!

As for drivers leaving for other TOCs, I do sympathise, the metro is not a mainline railway, its a very regional one so they will never be able to compete with mainline drivers salerlies and nor should they be able too. I do think there is more to it when you look at comments from former staff and would seem to suggest those higher up are probably to blame.

Can't wait for the car crash that the new fleet will bring also! That will be fun when they are so short staffed!
 

Tetchytyke

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Indeed, the attack on drivers doesn’t seem to have rinsed well with the public up here.

I disagree. Turning down the 15% just smacks of greed. People I work with- and I work in a lefty field- mostly agree.

As for the drivers comparing themselves to the mainline, how ridiculous. They're glorified tram drivers. Manchester Metrolink drivers get £33,000. That's about right for the work.
 
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MetroCar4058

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As for the drivers comparing themselves to the mainline, how ridiculous. They're glorified tram drivers. Manchester Metrolink drivers get £33,000. That's about right for the work.

I'm really glad you edited your post because I wasn't particularly impressed with how much you are demonising hard working train-crew who are often working questionably long shifts and periods of times before rest days. I'd just like to clarify that train crew who don't move onto other companies aren't useless idiots, a lot of people don't want to be working across the country or based in other cities, or some just don't want to move on because they say its too late on in life for them. I think train crew want guarantees against having to plug the gaps for the rest of their time at Metro.

As for the drivers comparing themselves to the mainline, how ridiculous. They're glorified tram drivers. Manchester Metrolink drivers get £33,000. That's about right for the work.

This is part of the ammo that the RMT and ASLEF have against the company. Metro train crew are train drivers as much as you want to honk and horn about them being tram drivers. They require train driver training and thats why so many are picked off by others (particularly TPE) as they don't require much extra training. Why does Metrolink not have this issue? Because they aren't train drivers and I'd assume some probably would never pass the tests to become them. Metro drivers tend to work longer hours and more hours than their mainline (regional eg Northern) counterparts. The union don't expect an LNER pay packet.
 

londonbridge

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I note they're predicting an 'amber' service for Sunday 8th when Newcastle are at home. The next Sunderland home game isn't till December 14th, be interesting to see what they predict for that day. Hopefully won't cause problems, I'm booked on the 18:29 LNER back to London after the match. Searching for Sunderland-Newcastle on Grand Centrals site shows the regular metro timetable operating alongside a 17:31 Northern service so I might go back to the city centre and catch the latter rather than getting a metro from Stadium Of Light station.
 

MetroCar4058

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I note they're predicting an 'amber' service for Sunday 8th when Newcastle are at home. The next Sunderland home game isn't till December 14th, be interesting to see what they predict for that day. Hopefully won't cause problems, I'm booked on the 18:29 LNER back to London after the match. Searching for Sunderland-Newcastle on Grand Centrals site shows the regular metro timetable operating alongside a 17:31 Northern service so I might go back to the city centre and catch the latter rather than getting a metro from Stadium Of Light station.

Generally weekends will be a red or amber service as this is when overtime really does cover the system. Service cancellations are not posted on the national rail booking systems.
 

ModernRailways

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As for the drivers comparing themselves to the mainline, how ridiculous. They're glorified tram drivers. Manchester Metrolink drivers get £33,000. That's about right for the work.

Metro drivers are train drivers and undergo the same tests as mainline drivers. In the past, prior to the Sunderland extension, this was different and you would have more of an argument to say they were more in line with tram drivers. There's a reason Metro drivers are being poached and not Metrolink drivers...
 

Tetchytyke

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I'm really glad you edited your post because I wasn't particularly impressed with how much you are demonising hard working train-crew

I was too harsh, so edited it.

I think train crew want guarantees against having to plug the gaps for the rest of their time at Metro.

They require train driver training and thats why so many are picked off by others (particularly TPE) as they don't require much extra training.

They're having to "plug gaps" because the trade unions have constantly prevented extra training. The current work-to-rule prevents any mentoring. So they won't let Metro hire more staff, and they won't help with training, but the issue is "work-life balance"? Yeah right.

This has been an issue for a long time- every warm day or England match, suddenly nobody is available- and the unions said it was all the fault of DB Regio and privatisation was the problem. DB Regio are gone- the unions won- yet now we're holding the region to ransom because a 15% pay rise is "insulting".

I note neither ASLEF nor the RMT have said much about why they turned down the offer, except money. It's just greed. An offer to be earning the thick end of fifty grand a year- double the national average- and it's "insulting".

It's a mystery why Boris Johnson's union-bashing is resounding with so many people.
 

Frankfurt

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To start with 15% is a debatable figure.

Nexus want to be able to roster drivers in on special event days even if it's a drivers day off. Work Xmas day & New Year's day if required. Want drivers to book on and off at various locations. Greater movement of shifts during possessions etc.
Increase notice period to 12 weeks. Newly qualified drivers to remain on 80% of salary until having completed 2 years competent. Move to monthly pay instead of weekly. If delayed, not being paid for first 15 mins per shift. That's not all of it either, there's more....

For example, most TOCs and FOCs have driver instructor grades who are on slightly enhanced salaries. At metro a coach/instructor isn't a permanent grade and coaches are paid an extra 5% only when carrying out coaching role, to the minute. It had been argued many times that the role should be made into a permanent grade and salary increase by the 5%. The above has always been rebuffed by managers. So when they knew that the situation was to escalate to where it is now they created the grade and made the role a permanent one. Then if anyone applied for the role and was successful they couldn't refuse to instruct trainee drivers - obviously that sh*t tactic didn't work.

The goodwill of drivers and other grades have always kept the trains running yet just look how they are being portrayed by those responsible for the current state of affairs. It's pretty poor outing your employees to media and all over social media when in fact they've gone above and beyond on a daily basis to keep trains moving. I'm not surprised though by an organisation that treats it's employees and passengers with nothing but contempt.

I could go on but there's a small insight for you.

**Just to add I don't work for metro, just in case anyone from there reads the above, no need to put up a notice threatening drivers to remain silent
 

jkkne

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I disagree. Turning down the 15% just smacks of greed. People I work with- and I work in a lefty field- mostly agree.

As for the drivers comparing themselves to the mainline, how ridiculous. They're glorified tram drivers. Manchester Metrolink drivers get £33,000. That's about right for the work.

Aside the usual stereotypes on local news Facebook pages support for the drivers seems strong. I think regular commuters acknowledge Nexus haven’t done a good job of running things. Even the somewhat grumpy souls on sortouthemetro are supportive.

not sure how it’s seen as greed. The Metro is critical to the economy of Tyneside and those working in it should be compensated accordingly.


Just seen frankfurts above comments. Astounding really. Incompetent local authority leadership tries to run trainset comes to mind....
 

Tetchytyke

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not sure how it’s seen as greed. The Metro is critical to the economy of Tyneside and those working in it should be compensated accordingly.

So they should be paid whatever they want just because they're in a position where strike action has a huge impact? Hmm.

They are compensated very well. 38k rising to almost 50k with this pay offer. In contrast, the median wage in the north east is 23k for a woman and 27k for a bloke.
Want drivers to book on and off at various locations. Greater movement of shifts during possessions etc.
Increase notice period to 12 weeks. Newly qualified drivers to remain on 80% of salary until having completed 2 years competent. Move to monthly pay instead of weekly. If delayed, not being paid for first 15 mins per shift.

What's wrong with any of that?

Incompetent local authority leadership tries to run trainset comes to mind....

ASLEF and the RMT were the ones who wanted rid of DB Regio.
 

jkkne

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So they should be paid whatever they want just because they're in a position where strike action has a huge impact? Hmm.

They are compensated very well. 38k rising to almost 50k with this pay offer. In contrast, the median wage in the north east is 23k for a woman and 27k for a bloke.
.

To a point yes, they hold all the cards and all we've heard so far is the Nexus response. If Nexus had properly managed the process from the start we wouldn't be here. But when you've like the likes of Forbes, Hughes and Carson who quite frankly I wouldn't trust with a Brio set, you can see how we're here.

I don't see the relevance of the median wage. Most of those roles will be unskilled. I could get your argument if Metro drivers went through basic tram training and were simply (no offence) tram drivers. They don't and they aren't. They should be suitably remunerated - as would you or I if we held better qualifications or carried out more important tasks than colleagues in our own workplace.

I do support the idea of booking on in different locations to support some flexibility in the network - particularly from South Shields.
 

Tetchytyke

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I don't see the relevance of the median wage. Most of those roles will be unskilled.

Train driving is a skilled job, which is why they get paid double the regional average salary. I wouldn't say Metro driving was anywhere near as skilled as mainline driving with TPE or Northern- low speeds, one traction type and under 50 miles of route to learn- but that's by the by.

They also get paid more than senior charge nurses- who are more skilled and have similar antisocial hours- as well as other public sector staff such as firefighters, police, etc.

They wanted to come back into the public sector, so comparing their wages to those offered by TOCs in the commercial sector is fallacious. They should be compared to other local authority staff. And compared to them they do really very nicely thank you.

Whether Tobyn is an idiot (he is) is irrelevant to the merits of a 15% payrise.
They're just being greedy.
 
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rebmcr

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Train driving is a skilled job, which is why they get paid double the regional average salary. I wouldn't say Metro driving was anywhere near as skilled as mainline driving with TPE or Northern- low speeds, one traction type and under 50 miles of route to learn- but that's by the by.

They also get paid more than senior charge nurses- who are more skilled and have similar antisocial hours- as well as other public sector staff such as firefighters, police, etc.

They wanted to come back into the public sector, so comparing their wages to those offered by TOCs in the commercial sector is fallacious. They should be compared to other local authority staff. And compared to them they do really very nicely thank you.

Whether Tobyn is an idiot (he is) is irrelevant to the merits of a 15% payrise.
They're just being greedy.

Makes it more difficult to defend unions on other topics which do have merit.
 

507 001

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To a point yes, they hold all the cards and all we've heard so far is the Nexus response. If Nexus had properly managed the process from the start we wouldn't be here. But when you've like the likes of Forbes, Hughes and Carson who quite frankly I wouldn't trust with a Brio set, you can see how we're here.

I don't see the relevance of the median wage. Most of those roles will be unskilled. I could get your argument if Metro drivers went through basic tram training and were simply (no offence) tram drivers. They don't and they aren't. They should be suitably remunerated - as would you or I if we held better qualifications or carried out more important tasks than colleagues in our own workplace.

I do support the idea of booking on in different locations to support some flexibility in the network - particularly from South Shields.


Metro drivers are train drivers and undergo the same tests as mainline drivers. In the past, prior to the Sunderland extension, this was different and you would have more of an argument to say they were more in line with tram drivers. There's a reason Metro drivers are being poached and not Metrolink drivers...

I think you’ll find that Metrolink drivers are being poached.
I’d like to see Metro drivers deal with Manchester City centre and other street running areas. Then we’ll see who is paid appropriately. What a crappy bunch of comments.
 
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jkkne

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The aforementioned sympathy might just disappear down a sinkhole.

Black Eye Friday, a Newcastle home game and the busiest shopping weekend of the year. Plays right into Nexus hands.
 

railfan249

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I think you’ll find that Metrolink drivers are being poached.
I’d like to see Metro drivers deal with Manchester City centre and other street running areas. Then we’ll see who is paid appropriately. What a crappy bunch of comments.

Completely agree. Offensive to both Metro drivers and Metrolink drivers, whose jobs offer a different kind of challenge to those at LNER, or TPE.
 

507 001

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Completely agree. Offensive to both Metro drivers and Metrolink drivers, whose jobs offer a different kind of challenge to those at LNER, or TPE.

Indeed. Trying to say that one group of people doesn’t deserve X amount of money because they don’t do a certain type of test is nonsense.
We’re all doing pretty much the same job, under slightly different circumstances. Taking an attitude like some posters in this thread will simply lead to a lack of support from colleagues within the industry who will simply see arrogance.
 

Tetchytyke

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The aforementioned sympathy might just disappear down a sinkhole.

I've not seen much sympathy and the rest of it disappears.

Suddenly the benefits of a fully-automated metro system, like in Dubai, become much more apparent.

Just sheer unadulterated greed.
 

Scott M

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Agree a lot with Arctic Troll on this matter.

Nexus want to be able to roster drivers in on special event days even if it's a drivers day off. Work Xmas day & New Year's day if required. Want drivers to book on and off at various locations. Greater movement of shifts during possessions etc.
If they want a 15% pay rise they should be willing to accept tougher conditions.

Move to monthly pay instead of weekly.
Not sure why this is a big deal - most people are paid monthly.

If delayed, not being paid for first 15 mins per shift.
My job also has performance-based targets.

From what I have seen on social media and amongst those I know, choosing to strike when they have has swiftly changed public opinion from 'Poor metro drivers working under nasty Nexus' to 'Nexus have to try to get their greedy, unruly employees under control'. When you are dealing with a lot of NHS workers as passengers, striking because you are only being offered double-the-regional-average pay is not going to carry much weight and is playing right into Nexus' hands.

Frankfurt's post reads as if metro drivers want the increased salary without any of the increased responsibilities that come along with it, i.e. something for nothing. If they want the increased salary, they should either be accepting the tougher conditions, or be applying to the more prestigious TOCs. Otherwise it reads like those who can't get Northern/TPE jobs have just decided to strike anyway to get the same salaries for doing much easier work.

Also, regarding the anti-social behaviour and filming the perpetrators à la Merseyrail, I imagine a problem with doing that on the Metro is that a lot of the perpetrators of anti-social behaviour are under-age - not sure if you can prosecute them?
 

ModernRailways

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If they want a 15% pay rise they should be willing to accept tougher conditions.

Why? It's a 3% rise every year for the next 3 years in real terms. It sounds better to say 15% pay rise, but a 3% rise is a pretty standard rise.

My job also has performance-based targets.

If a driver is on shift, for their booked start time, it isn't their fault if the train they pick/set up is faulty. If theirs an infrastructure issue it's not their fault. Why should they be docked?

From what I have seen on social media and amongst those I know, choosing to strike when they have has swiftly changed public opinion from 'Poor metro drivers working under nasty Nexus' to 'Nexus have to try to get their greedy, unruly employees under control'. When you are dealing with a lot of NHS workers as passengers, striking because you are only being offered double-the-regional-average pay is not going to carry much weight and is playing right into Nexus' hands.

The race to the bottom. Why aren't these same people complaining about footballers' wages or pilots wages? Comparing to other industries is pointless. A lot of them also don't understand what driving a train actually means and 95% would likely fail the tests. But instead let's have a race to the bottom instead of everyone fighting for better wages why not fight so everyone can have the same low wages.

Frankfurt's post reads as if metro drivers want the increased salary without any of the increased responsibilities that come along with it, i.e. something for nothing. If they want the increased salary, they should either be accepting the tougher conditions, or be applying to the more prestigious TOCs. Otherwise it reads like those who can't get Northern/TPE jobs have just decided to strike anyway to get the same salaries for doing much easier work.

There's always going to be strings attached. However, not being able to make plans because they could decide to change your rota, potentially forcing extra hours onto drivers when gaps aren't filled, drivers working xmas day and new years day, on a 24 hour roster, change of booking on/off locations, flexibility on engineering possessions to change shifts to what the management please plus more. 12 weeks notice period to say you're leaving. A lot of these drivers are new, you'd probably find the vast majority of Metro drivers now have started within the last 3-5 years, it's a revolving door because Metro treat their staff like something they've stepped on. These drivers will likely move on unless Metro treat them properly.

Chris Carson apparently reached an agreement with the unions, however when it came to the signing off on the deal he had changed it hence why the industrial action has began. I think it's worth noting the pay deal's usually take a lot longer to negotiate and don't normally lead to any industrial action.

Also, regarding the anti-social behaviour and filming the perpetrators à la Merseyrail, I imagine a problem with doing that on the Metro is that a lot of the perpetrators of anti-social behaviour are under-age - not sure if you can prosecute them?

They can be, but the issue is getting their details to actually prosecute, when they come into the depot we can't do much and the police are relatively disinterested in it. The inspectors travelling on the trains are in the same position fwik. We do have security here in the depot however which has helped in my view.
 

Lockwood

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For example, most TOCs and FOCs have driver instructor grades who are on slightly enhanced salaries. At metro a coach/instructor isn't a permanent grade and coaches are paid an extra 5% only when carrying out coaching role, to the minute. It had been argued many times that the role should be made into a permanent grade and salary increase by the 5%. The above has always been rebuffed by managers. So when they knew that the situation was to escalate to where it is now they created the grade and made the role a permanent one. Then if anyone applied for the role and was successful they couldn't refuse to instruct trainee drivers - obviously that sh*t tactic didn't work.

Dumb question from the cheap seats here...
These people are instructors. They were being paid to instruct only when instructing.
They wanted to get paid an instructor's rate at all times. They want to not instruct.
Isn't part of being paid for a specific role actually doing that role? That looks like trying to have it both ways?

Not sure why this is a big deal - most people are paid monthly.
If you do not have much of a money buffer, it is a Big Thing (TM).
Instead of going a week before the next income topup, you get a month. If you are working paycheque to paycheque, this means that that last week's money has to last four times longer.
 

Tetchytyke

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However, not being able to make plans because they could decide to change your rota, potentially forcing extra hours onto drivers when gaps aren't filled, drivers working xmas day and new years day, on a 24 hour roster, change of booking on/off locations, flexibility on engineering possessions to change shifts to what the management please plus more. 12 weeks notice period to say you're leaving.

What's wrong with any of that? The "big event days" are what we all know- GNR day, Sunderland Airshow weekend, the Saturdat before Christmas. That clause is there because of the embarrassment caused in May when all the drivers decided to stop at home during the Rugby Champions Cup weekend.

It's there for predictable big events, to stop the annual blackmail at GNR time.

Metro doesn't operate Christmas Day or New Year's Day and there is no indication that is likely to change any time soon.

As for 12 weeks' notice, that is standard for staff in the public sector who are on pay scales high enough to merit a £46k pay packet. So- again- so what?

The race to the bottom. Why aren't these same people complaining about footballers' wages or pilots wages? Comparing to other industries is pointless.

Comparing to other public sector staff with similar responsibilities- nurses, for instance- is entirely fair. These people wanted to be in the public sector, they got what they wanted. There are cons to that as well as pros.

The drivers earn more than my wife, who is doing a specialist job in the NHS which required her to obtain a doctorate- at her own expense- in order to practice. So please spare me the lecture about how terribly terribly awful a pay deal of £46,000 a year is.

As for 15% being "3% a year", how do you work that out? It's 5%- minimum- and 5% is a pay deal every single other person working for a local authority in the north east- or even in the public sector more generally- would bite your arm off for.

Metro doesn't pay it's way, it is heavily subsidised, and it is subsidised by council tax payers earning a damn sight less than the drivers- the average wage up here is HALF of what the drivers were offered. The idea that being paid double the regional average wage is a "race to the bottom" is, quite frankly, laughable. The coppers you expect to come and deal with the ASB get paid £24,000!

Remember that when you're trying to claim you're hard done by.
 
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Frankfurt

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Dumb question from the cheap seats here...
These people are instructors. They were being paid to instruct only when instructing.
They wanted to get paid an instructor's rate at all times. They want to not instruct.
Isn't part of being paid for a specific role actually doing that role? That looks like trying to have it both ways?

Instructing is not a permanent grade, voluntary for those with instructor competency - So they can choose whether they wish to do it or not when asked. I was just trying to point out that the people in charge are quick to implement change when it suits.

As for whether people back drivers or not I was merely trying to point out that the "15%" was not a string free offer as it has been put across by Texas (Nexus) directors.
 

DanNCL

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The ASLEF industrial action (both the overtime ban and the strike) has been called off after a legal challenge from Nexus over "discrepancies" in ASLEF's ballot. The RMT industrial action (again both the overtime ban and the strike) however is still going ahead, and Metro are still expecting not to have any service running on the 20th or 21st of December
 

ModernRailways

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The ASLEF industrial action (both the overtime ban and the strike) has been called off after a legal challenge from Nexus over "discrepancies" in ASLEF's ballot. The RMT industrial action (again both the overtime ban and the strike) however is still going ahead, and Metro are still expecting not to have any service running on the 20th or 21st of December

ASLEF stopped industrial action on the 6th. They are likely to be balloting again very shortly.

There are no negotiations as the Nexus negotiating team are on holiday from what I've been told.

The RMT have around 120 drivers, ASLEF around 50, so it wouldn't be possible to run a safe service (a weekday service requires approx 75 drivers). ASLEF drivers can also still refuse to cross a picket line.
 
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