Why are Euston gateline staff so hostile?

[dk1]

Fair enough - not discounting your experience - but I know a couple of staff members from each TOC, all of whom have many stories of being rudely addressed, needlessly ordered to show their passes when in full uniform etc.

Now I have heard of this from other members of my own TOC when using our own or another's station where their own passes would activate the barriers even. When I say why haven't you got your pass out or 'touched' the gateline they arrogantly reply "why should I". I find that astounding. My pass is ready at all times & wouldn't dream of troubling gateline staff or anyone else to do it for me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now I have heard of this from other members of my own TOC when using our own or another's station where their own passes would activate the barriers even. When I say why haven't you got your pass out or 'touched' the gateline they arrogantly reply "why should I". I find that astounding. My pass is ready at all times & wouldn't dream of troubling gateline staff or anyone else to do it for me.

I would agree that staff should show their pass every time they pass any kind of ticket check without needing to be asked and should not do "do you know who I am". If nothing else it could catch out someone up to no good in a fake uniform (see it, say it...).

It's like office tailgaters - the only place I've ever worked where people always challenged them was a Police force's offices. Tailgaters should be challenged everywhere, and if you are going to do it you should do so with your pass in your hand showing it clearly to the person who's just held the door open for you.

@joncombe has a better example of poor behaviour.

 

[dk1]

I would agree that staff should show their pass every time they pass any kind of ticket check without needing to be asked and should not do "do you know who I am".

@joncombe has a better example of poor behaviour.

It's not difficult. Some have stated "it's at the bottom of my bag" well who's problem is that? Keep it with your T-key in future would be my reply. Some people

 

[yorkie]

Probably because of the nature of punters they have to deal with. I always find it heartwarming to see the no prisoner nature of their revenue protection.

I have to deal with some awkward individuals in a job that I do, but if I behaved the way the Euston gateline have been caught behaving I'd have been sacked long ago.

Why not name the member(s) of staff involved? If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

It's not an issue with individuals; it's a deep rooted cultural problem that has been in place for years. Yes they should be named/described in direct communication with Virgin, but not here.

I couldn't comment on those occasions. Just hear so many grumpy folk who are obviously in the wrong & who bought the cheapo tickets and then think we will all sympothise with their tales of woe.

I couldn't comment on those occasions. Just hear so many legitimate folk who are obviously in the right & who bought correct tickets and who were wrongly rejected by the gateline.

As already stated, I have NEVER had a problem yet have travelled frequently for many years.

As already stated, I have assisted LOADS of people who have had problems, frequently, for many years.

You defended them on this forum 9 years ago but the issues with their behaviour were well documented at that time, and many more incidents have been reported since.

Here are some examples of poor behaviour at Euston:

so I just received a phone call from a friend who has been made to purchase a new ticket for £158.00

after already paying £90.00 for an off peak return Llandudno Junction - Euston.

Got to the gate line and was told his ticket is not valid after 15.00 and before 19.00 this clearly isn't true..

At Euston they have refused to sell me the ticket and have allways stated that my staff pass is not valid on their trains.

There Revenue staff have been told that our staff passes are not valid and will not allow you to pass when they `barrier` the gateline.

Ray

Wouldn't be the first time that the RPIs at Euston have been picking on other operator's staff.

... he finally arrived at Euston at 0825, missing his booked 0823 train. At the ticket barrier for the 0843, despite protesting he was late due to the tube, they insisted his ticket was no longer valid and forced him to buy a new one (he had a meeting to get to so couldn't wait around to argue). I realise this is a common occurrence at Euston (I've had numerous issues but stand my ground)....

...On the subject of Euston barrier staff, they even like to be difficult with other rail staff!...

I think in this case it's the fault of the staff at Euston. In some places on the railways there's a counter productive culture of closing ranks and ganging up on the customer, even when the customer is right. As much is evident in the response given by Virgin to the media.

Somebody at the time should really have had a quiet word with the inspector, out of earshot of anyone else and advise them to do the correct thing, rather than supporting that wholly unwarranted treatment against the 15 year old. How any colleague could watch and let that inspector deny her entry like that is beggar's belief...

I have been pulled up many a time at Euston for no ticket and had to argue my way out of things

That's where I've had issues too. Apsley station ticket office has (had?) one permanent member of staff, so when they were ill/on holiday it didn't open. The TVM didn't accept cash. The hassle I sometimes got at Euston was really something I could do without. Even getting it in writing from LM that I can board without a ticket if I'm paying cash/voucher didn't massively help.

Barrier staff rather than RPIs, admittedly, but still.

The barrier staff at London Euston are well known for being petty, spiteful and vindictive. There have been countless examples of similar behaviour, both on these boards and elsewhere. I've had the pleasure of the experience before when trying to travel on the WCML after disruption on the ECML..

Not the first time I’ve heard that VTWC staff causing agro. They refuse to accept TFL staff passes that are valid from EUS to WFJ on AC/DC lines.

What makes me laugh though is the non protected virgin staff then trying to get a safeguarded priv discount being loaded onto their Oyster card when there not entitled to the discount.

...I contacted our control and they advised to send the passenger back to MKC via our service and get the passenger to take the Southern service from there as per the routing of his ticket. Apparently the route he should have taken was CRE - MKC - CLJ - FEL thus going through Kenny O and validating his ticket....

(no criticism of the gateline staff on this one, but the instructions issued to them were crazy)

And from MSE: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3044108 (was also discussed on this forum and @AlterEgo and I assisted the passenger who did eventually get refunded):-

when it came to take a train from Euston to Lancaster the Virgin ticket checkers told me my ticket wasn't valid for their train and so I had to buy a new ticket for just over £50.

The fact that a Train Driver has managed to avoid hassle at the gateline is an irrelevance for the grave concerns that I, and many others, have.

There are other cases, not posted on this forum, that I have been made aware of directly and I have provided assistance for.

If I had behaved in the manner that many people have witnessed at Euston, I would fully expect to have been sacked.

 

[43066]

I would agree that staff should show their pass every time they pass any kind of ticket check without needing to be asked and should not do "do you know who I am". If nothing else it could catch out someone up to no good in a fake uniform (see it, say it...).

It's like office tailgaters - the only place I've ever worked where people always challenged them was a Police force's offices. Tailgaters should be challenged everywhere, and if you are going to do it you should do so with your pass in your hand showing it clearly to the person who's just held the door open for you.

@joncombe has a better example of poor behaviour.

It's not difficult. Some have stated "it's at the bottom of my bag" well who's problem is that? Keep it with your T-key in future would be my reply. Some people

Well that’s news to me after several years of driving trains in and out of several london terminals (admittedly not Euston, although I gather it’s the same there). The procedure is: you present yourself at the gate in full regalia, smile at the gateline staff and they let you through.

There’s a good reason for not using your staff travel pass in the machines - they break after five minutes.

Nobody ever asks you to show a pass - it’s simply unnecessary - that has been my experience literally thousands of times over the last few years. Staff get to know your face so security risk is minimal.

The only occasion I have had an issue, I had followed the usual protocol, and was given an absolute verbal tongue lashing for not showing my pass by a member of gateline staff, who clearly had anger issues and a chip on their shoulder, in full view of passengers.

I had no choice but to declare myself unfit to drive, my outbound and return workings were cancelled as a result and my train sat idle, blocking a platform for a couple of hours.

I never saw him again after that.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It isn’t just Euston gateline. Virgin Trains have some truly appalling staff. They have some OK ones, some good ones and some very good ones but none of those make up for how dreadful some of them are.

I was threatened with physical violence by one. There was disruption and he was being very unhelpful to anybody who asked for assistance. I asked what the first train to X was and he gave me incorrect information. I told him the information was incorrect and asked the question again and he tried to publically humiliate me. In response I made a sarcastic comment and walked away. He ran after me, red in the face, and threatened me.

 

[43066]

It's not difficult. Some have stated "it's at the bottom of my bag" well who's problem is that? Keep it with your T-key in future would be my reply. Some people

Are you a member of Euston gateline staff, by any chance?

 

[8J]

Well that’s news to me after several years of driving trains in and out of several london terminals (admittedly not Euston, although I gather it’s the same there). The procedure is: you present yourself at the gate in full regalia, smile at the gateline staff and they let you through.

There’s a good reason for not using your staff travel pass in the machines - they break after five minutes.

Nobody ever asks you to show a pass - it’s simply unnecessary - that has been my experience literally thousands of times over the last few years. Staff get to know your face so security risk is minimal.

The only occasion I have had an issue, I had followed the usual protocol, and was given an absolute verbal tongue lashing for not showing my pass by a member of gateline staff, who clearly had anger issues and a chip on their shoulder, in full view of passengers.

I had no choice but to declare myself unfit to drive, my outbound and return workings were cancelled as a result and my train sat idle, blocking a platform for a couple of hours.

I never saw him again after that.

I've had similar experiences to the one you've described. I was trying to use my pass through a gateline as I'd nipped the shop between trips to purchase a bottle of water.

A member of staff from my own TOC refused to let me through the barriers as my pass boucned back (likely because it had been used a minute before to exit)

I was very polite to the barrier staff as I always try to be (you never know when you may need someone's help in the course of your duties!) and asked to be let through the barrier and got told bluntly "no you should use your pass"

I told her that it didn't work and that my train was departing in 8 minutes and even tried it again in front of her and had the same problem.

She then launched a tirade of swear words and attacks at the driving grade to which I rang the TCS and said I'm going home... I too have never seen this member of staff again!

 

[8J]

There is a real behavioural issue amongst several front line Virgin staff that is not just confined to the revenue protection grade. I have met and spoken to some lovely RPO's at Euston about 8 years ago or so and I have also encountered some vile staff in the revenue grades, train managers and even onboard customer service hosts (the usual refusing to give up the end seats in coach K to first class ticket holders who had to stand on a packed train)

I encountered a flock of Virgin revenue staff recently who were harassing passengers waiting for the TFW service from platform 8 at Liverpool Lime Street. They were blocking the platform off to people who wanted to sit down on the platform benches but did not have a Virgin ticket for their service on the adjacent platform 9. This resulted in the Northern station supervisor coming down and ordering them to stop what they were doing but they still carry on with this today!

I do think a lot of these problems stem from a management culture of "we are the best TOC - screw all the others and passengers that don't buy tickets from us" when in reality, they are far from the best TOC out there.

 

[HOOVER29]

Never had a problem with the gate line staff. Probably because of my size. unless you’re over 6ft 4 & 17 stone then you ain’t bigger than me.
Been told I have snake eyes too & look straight through people.

in reality I’m a gentle giant but people don’t know that.

 

[apinnard]

Don't be silly.

Avanti cant afford you

 

[Deafdoggie]

In the interests of balance I posted this on a similar thread.

My teenage step-daughter was travelling Stafford-Selly Oak. She was told at Stafford “It’s the London Euston train” which is correct, but instead of the LNR Euston train, she got on the Virgin Euston one! First stop Euston! She only became aware (The automated onboard announcements simply said “Welcome on board this service to London Euston” & she just assumed they didn’t announce other stops) when her phone showed her as being on the side of Birmingham!
I got a panicked phone call from her at this point. I advised speaking to the train manager, when she said she didn’t know where they were, I said to go to the shop, explain there and they would sort it out. She poured out the story (possibly a bit tearfully and certainly panicky!) to the shop assistant, who gave her a free bottle of water to calm her and got the TM
The TM issued a free excess ticket Euston-Selly Oak, told her the times and platform at Euston and all was well.
On arrival at Euston the gateline staff were checking tickets, saw her free excess ticket, and said words to the effect of “we were trying to find you!” took her to the correct platform, got her on the correct train before boarding commenced and told her what platform she would arrive on, and what platform she would depart from, and even to remember there were two Birmingham stations and to wait for New Street!
I couldn’t fault any Virgin staff, least of all Euston gateline.

 

[yorkie]

In the interests of balance I posted this on a similar thread.

No-one is suggesting all staff who ever worked the gateline misbehave. Indeed a helpful member of this forum who I know well has been deployed to this gateline! Of course most of the time there isn't a problem, however the number of issues that arise at the Euston gateline, and the severity and outcome of some of them, is far beyond the limits of what can be considered acceptable, and would not be tolerated in any other customer-facing industry.

 

[WrongRoad]

#guessthewearebetterthanothers

A few months working for First Group will soon change that thought lol

 

[dk1]

Are you a member of Euston gateline staff, by any chance?

Again, don't be silly

 

[dk1]

Avanti cant afford you

Very true indeed

 

[dk1]

As already stated, I have assisted LOADS of people who have had problems, frequently, for many years.

You defended them on this forum 9 years ago but the issues with their behaviour were well documented at that time, and many more incidents have been reported since.

Wow was that 9 years ago? How time flies. Proud to say my opinions haven't changed.

 

[yorkie]

Wow was that 9 years ago? How time flies. Proud to say my opinions haven't changed.

Of course. Overwhelming evidence is not going to change some people's opinions.

Over a quarter of the total posts in this thread are posted by yourself, so it's clear you have a strong opinion on this matter that is at odds with the majority, but if you read posts made by other people, it's impossible to reach a conclusion that there is no problem at the Euston gateline. The evidence presented by yourself that one Train Driver has not experienced a problem isn't really relevant in the context of those complaints and does not in any way diminish the legitimacy of the concerns held by many people.

 

[scrapy]

I was actually under the (obviously now false) impression they are agency staff in Virgin uniform a bit like Northern have from Carlisle. Don't know why I thought that but they just seemed so different and removed from the other Virgin staff including the gateline staff further North. Never had a specific problem but I can understand why they come across as unfriendly.

 

[pdeaves]

Could part of the issue with Euston 'gateline' staff be down to the environment in which they have to work? The platform entrances are not the nicest places to have to stand for hours on end.

 

[DarloRich]

I use euston on a regular (almost daily) basis. Never had one problem with gateline staff.

Why? Well I know how to behave, have a vilid ticket and dont have an attitude. I have seen them turn away people, robustly, for not having the correct ticket and I think good. Carry on. I am just a regualr passenger so hopefully my view is worth something even if itnis at odds with most here.

As aside I think many here expect everyone to have thier encyclopediac knowledge of the minutiae of railway ticketing rules instanlty to hand amd dont understand when others dont.

 

[Flying Snail]

I use euston on a regular (almost daily) basis. Never had one problem with gateline staff.

Why? Well I know how to behave, have a vilid ticket and dont have an attitude. I have seen them turn away people, robustly, for not having the correct ticket and I think good. Carry on. I am just a regualr passenger so hopefully my view is worth something even if itnis at odds with most here.

As aside I think many here expect everyone to have thier encyclopediac knowledge of the minutiae of railway ticketing rules instanlty to hand amd dont understand when others dont.

You were quoted above by Yorkie saying something that directly contradicts this.

"
DarloRich said: ↑
I have been pulled up many a time at Euston for no ticket and had to argue my way out of things"

Someone is talking through their hoop; is it you or you?

 

[yorkie]

I use euston on a regular (almost daily) basis. Never had one problem with gateline staff.

Did you not get pulled up for not buying a ticket at a station with no ticket issuing facilities and have to argue your way out of it?

Why? Well I know how to behave, have a vilid ticket and dont have an attitude.

Are you sure you didn't turn up at Euston without a valid ticket, due to starting your journey at a station without facilities?

I have seen them turn away people, robustly, for not having the correct ticket and I think good. Carry on. I am just a regualr passenger so hopefully my view is worth something even if itnis at odds with most here.

I don't understand how you seeing them turn away people for not having a ticket that you know was not the correct ticket in any way negates the seriousness of them turning away people for not having the correct ticket when many of us have stated for a fact that the correct ticket was held? Your view that you have witnessed staff acting correctly does not in any way diminish the legitimacy of the concerns held by many people. Did you read this post?

As aside I think many here expect everyone to have thier encyclopediac knowledge of the minutiae of railway ticketing rules instanlty to hand amd dont understand when others dont.

If staff do not have the relevant knowledge, it isn't correct to bring the company into disrepute by breaching the contract. If you do not know, you check!

 

[DarloRich]

Did you not get pulled up for not buying a ticket at a station with no ticket issuing facilities and have to argue your way out of it?

Are you sure you didn't turn up at Euston without a valid ticket, due to starting your journey at a station without facilities?

I don't understand how you seeing them turn away people for not having a ticket that you know was not the correct ticket in any way negates the seriousness of them turning away people for not having the correct ticket when many of us have stated for a fact that the correct ticket was held? Your view that you have witnessed staff acting correctly does not in any way diminish the legitimacy of the concerns held by many people. Did you read this post?

If staff do not have the relevant knowledge, it isn't correct to bring the company into disrepute by breaching the contract. If you do not know, you check!

Apologies. I have sliglhty misrepresented my experience.

ONCE I was challenged by a person at the gate for not having a ticket from fenny Stratford to Euston. He was all for giving me a penalty until I asked for the manager to attend. These people worked for LM not Virgin

The people I see virgin staff turning away tend to have lm only tickets, tickets for a particular timed train ir off peak tickets trying to board a peak service.

I dont seek to discount peoples views. I simply offer my own. I know that often my views are different to the majority here and I suspect that is the real problem!

 

[DarloRich]

You were quoted above by Yorkie saying something that directly contradicts this.

"
DarloRich said: ↑
I have been pulled up many a time at Euston for no ticket and had to argue my way out of things"

Someone is talking through their hoop; is it you or you?

I regularly had to explain why I had no ticket. Sometimes it took a little persuading but only once was it a problem. That should no longer be an issue as we now have a ticket machine at fenny.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think we're talking cross purposes here. The barrier staff at 8-11 are LNR/WMT staff and in my experience are fine. The issues lie with the Virgin staff who do manual checks on other platforms for their services only (they do not do such checks for LNR - if it's not on 8-11 and there's not a revenue sting on, LNR do not have a check at all). So as a Bletchley passenger you are unlikely to encounter the staff in question at all.

 

[SteveM70]

I think there is a widespread issue with gateline staff not understanding the rules relating to off peak tickets, particularly the return portions during the evening peak period.

It happens frequently at MCV when using the return portion of an off peak return from a station in West Yorkshire - there is no restriction, they don’t work the fates, and the gateline staff initially refuse to let you through. Some are quicker than others to realise they’re incorrect. I’d say this has happened to me 20-30 times since the Victoria gateline was installed

I’ve had similar issues at Euston and Paddington, though nothing like as often as I travel to London far less

But when it does happen, the gateline staff default attitude is generally quite aggressive with a presumption that the customer is trying to rip them off.

 

[Ianno87]

Probably because of the nature of punters they have to deal with. I always find it heartwarming to see the no prisoner nature of their revenue protection.

Apart from the time some pompous entitled prat on a first class season ticket charged the RPI line, running over my foot with hit his suitcase in the process, and the RPIs made no attempt to stop him. Complained via Twitter only for the Twiterree to make every excuse in the book before (after serveral back and forths) they accepted my point.

 

[2L70]

You think Euston are bad? Liverpool Street are even worse. Gang up on you if you’ve not got a ticket(especially if you’ve come from somewhere the TO is closed and TVM not working)

 

[kristiang85]

To add balance to the thread, whilst not a regular Virgin commuter, I do go up north fairly often, and I've found the staff to be absolutely fine. But I always travel on simple advance tickets, so I guess there's no complications they've had to face from me. Though there was once time on New Years Day I missed my advance booking as I simply woke up too late (an 8am train was probably ambitious!), and they seemingly bent over backwards to make sure I was on the next train and didn't get any hassle for it. So good experiences from me, but maybe I've been lucky.