• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Avanti West Coast - Three classes of travel to be introduced

Status
Not open for further replies.

Worldwide

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2016
Messages
194
Avanti West Coast is developing a premium economy-style offering, similar to that on airlines.

Passengers in premium economy could be entitled to "the bigger seat, better wi-fi and snacks rather than a meal"

A good thing or a bad thing?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Mathew S

Established Member
Joined
7 Aug 2017
Messages
2,167
Avanti West Coast is developing a premium economy-style offering, similar to that on airlines.

Passengers in premium economy could be entitled to "the bigger seat, better wi-fi and snacks rather than a meal"

A good thing or a bad thing?
If it offers a reasonable middle option that's less extortionately priced than First has been under Virgin, then I'm all for it.

Of course, it'll remain to be seen what's on offer, and whether customers think it represents good value.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Avanti West Coast is developing a premium economy-style offering, similar to that on airlines.

Passengers in premium economy could be entitled to "the bigger seat, better wi-fi and snacks rather than a meal"

A good thing or a bad thing?

If there's a plentiful supply of individual airline seats, I'm sold.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
If there's a plentiful supply of individual airline seats, I'm sold.

I don't think the seat layout will be changing, though the 80x are near certain to include single airline seats. However, even without that if the price is near 150% of Standard I'll be sold. I want, European-style, a wider seat and more legroom for an extra sum in keeping with the reduced number of seats in the coach, not expensive gimmicks.

With the expensive gimmicks being lacking on weekends, I wonder if we will see two classes on weekends?
 

pt_mad

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2011
Messages
2,960
Wasn't there once a proposed club class at one time which was something like this?
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
I don't think the seat layout will be changing, though the 80x are near certain to include single airline seats. However, even without that if the price is near 150% of Standard I'll be sold. I want, European-style, a wider seat and more legroom for an extra sum in keeping with the reduced number of seats in the coach, not expensive gimmicks.

The Pendolino refurb might change things a bit.

What's the first class food offer on Virgin/Avanti like these days? I'm much more familiar with LNER, where the portions are incredibly mean these days. It's no longer something that attracts me to upgrade, it's all about the quiet and privacy.

With the expensive gimmicks being lacking on weekends, I wonder if we will see two classes on weekends?

I suspect it's a way of filling surplus first class seats effectively, so the premium standard or whatever they'll call it will probably be an off-peak product.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Wasn't there once a proposed club class at one time which was something like this?

Virgin planned three classes on the Voyagers, but I think the additional level was at the budget end, and was intended to be inferior to Standard. Ouch!
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The Pendolino refurb might change things a bit.

I've read here several times that the seat layout is not going to change.

Virgin planned three classes on the Voyagers, but I think the additional level was at the budget end, and was intended to be inferior to Standard. Ouch!

Yep, it was going to have 3+2 seating and be in the cab end vehicle. I believe it was going to be called "Virgin Value class".
 

pt_mad

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2011
Messages
2,960
I've read here several times that the seat layout is not going to change.



Yep, it was going to have 3+2 seating and be in the cab end vehicle. I believe it was going to be called "Virgin Value class".
What was club class? An alternative name for first class at that time?
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,266
The pay walled article in the Times also states quite clearly that the seat layout won’t change. They reckon it will be a first class seat only with no extras.
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,126
Location
Liverpool
I only sampled VTWC First Class once, about 2 months ago.

Euston bound morning train breakfast was good, not a lot to be fair, but enough and what was there was nice.

Lime St. bound (albeit a Manchester service) meal on a ~8.00 P.M train was dire, a box of crackers and not enough cheese to choke on. Poor show I thought.

Not a patch on Eurostar though.
 

stj

Member
Joined
15 Apr 2019
Messages
314
There are 4 classes on some trains in Italy but there is real competition from Italo on many high speed routes.
 

Worldwide

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2016
Messages
194
The pay walled article in the Times also states quite clearly that the seat layout won’t change. They reckon it will be a first class seat only with no extras.

There’s an article about it on the bbc news I’m not sure if links are allowed on here.
 

underbank

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2013
Messages
1,486
Location
North West England
I'd be all for it if it's like their weekend first class offering, i.e. just the same except for a snack instead of a meal. I'm certainly happy to pay a bit more for the wider seat, aligned windows and a snack. I'd never pay full whack for the full first class experience as the meal etc means nothing to me. It'll be interesting to see how they price it - I'm not willing to pay silly amounts more just for the better seat/view.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I'd be all for it if it's like their weekend first class offering, i.e. just the same except for a snack instead of a meal. I'm certainly happy to pay a bit more for the wider seat, aligned windows and a snack. I'd never pay full whack for the full first class experience as the meal etc means nothing to me. It'll be interesting to see how they price it - I'm not willing to pay silly amounts more just for the better seat/view.

I'd be happy with no freebies at all provided the fare does not exceed 160% of the Standard fare applicable at the same time, ideally with a flexible offer or on-board upgrade commensurate with that percentage.
 

pt_mad

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2011
Messages
2,960
I'd be happy with no freebies at all provided the fare does not exceed 160% of the Standard fare applicable at the same time, ideally with a flexible offer or on-board upgrade commensurate with that percentage.
It used to be possible to get this for 100% of the standard class price in MK3 days. I.e. a wider seat, table to yourself, nice quiet coach about half full...
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,126
Location
Liverpool
I find the non alignment of seats with windows on modern UK trains really annoying. The continentals are guilty of it now as well.

Does anyone else find the Pendolinos claustrophobic? It's not something that bothers me particularly, but a window seat in Standard is definitely cramped (due to the cant) and I'm only 5'9" and 12 st.
 

Merle Haggard

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
1,979
Location
Northampton
Does no-one recall when the original MML TOC - National Express - had three classes?
Standard and First plus 'Premier'. The last was the front half of the TFO nearest to the PC, with curtains separating it off from the other half of the coach, apparently based on planes. The complimentary food etc was only in Premier, not in First; it was just free drinks in First. Hot food was carried from the kitchen through the TRFB and one and a half TFOs to beyond the curtains - which had the effect of increasing the sense that First was downgraded.
Tickets for Premier were only sold for journeys entirely on MML and were only available from MML. Passengers holding an open First ticket with an origin or destination not on the MML were treated as First, not Premier, class passengers. Standard class passengers could occupy any un-reserved seat in First before departure (or, obvs., later) and pay for an upgrade. The upgrade charge was modest £5 - £10.
It wasn't universally popular.
It generated two groups of complaints; the first from passengers who had a (quite often, very expensive) long distance First class open ticket who felt that they were denied the best accommodation, and the second from people who bought open First class return tickets, particularly to London, but didn't make a reservation because they were unsure what train they'd be catching (work, meetings etc.) and found the First already full with upgrading standard passengers. The latter in particular practically destroyed the demand for First open tickets and First season tickets. Presumably, because 'Premier' tickets were only valid on MML services, MML received all the revenue whereas First revenue would be reduced by ORCATS allocation and there was the hope that this extra Premier revenue would more than balance the loss, with a further increase in income from the upgrade charges.
I wonder whether Avanti are introducing a 'class' not on the other TOCs on the WCML to increase their revenue share similarly. Or maybe I'm just a cynic...
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,126
Location
Liverpool
Well if it isn't to generate revenue MH, I guess they wouldn't be doing it? It is privatised and that means everything must revolve around chasing the money.
 

Parham Wood

Member
Joined
13 Jun 2011
Messages
329
I am totally against this. I see it as basically creating more revenue at the expense of the normal traveling public. All right for those on expenses or privs or rich. I can see the third class going to 3+2 otherwise there will be a reduction in capacity. More opportunity to prosecute those in the wrong class. Even less space when trains are overcrowded. Ever tried leaving Bristol for the West country at c 5pm the Virgin train was always rammed whenever I used it and only one set.
 

vlad

Member
Joined
13 May 2018
Messages
749
Passengers in premium economy could be entitled to "the bigger seat, better wi-fi and snacks rather than a meal"

Given that first-class catering on Virgin Trains was pretty much a snack, does this mean that Avanti first-class catering is going to be improved? <D
 

whoosh

Established Member
Joined
3 Sep 2008
Messages
1,361
I can remember a concept drawing of future Gatwick Express trains, on the run up to privatisation, with Virgin planning to have three classes in their ideas to run it - including 1+1seating in the most premium seats.
Just look at it now - one class of uncomfortable, barely padded seating, but some of the seats cost extra and have a handkerchief on the headrest!
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,126
Location
Liverpool
I am totally against this. I see it as basically creating more revenue at the expense of the normal traveling public. All right for those on expenses or privs or rich. I can see the third class going to 3+2 otherwise there will be a reduction in capacity. More opportunity to prosecute those in the wrong class. Even less space when trains are overcrowded. Ever tried leaving Bristol for the West country at c 5pm the Virgin train was always rammed whenever I used it and only one set.

Not sure you'd fit 3+2 in a 390?
 

Adsy125

Member
Joined
22 Dec 2016
Messages
421
I am totally against this. I see it as basically creating more revenue at the expense of the normal traveling public. All right for those on expenses or privs or rich. I can see the third class going to 3+2 otherwise there will be a reduction in capacity. More opportunity to prosecute those in the wrong class. Even less space when trains are overcrowded. Ever tried leaving Bristol for the West country at c 5pm the Virgin train was always rammed whenever I used it and only one set.
Virgin haven’t run from Bristol for over 12 years! The idea seems to be a class between standard and first, not a downgrade of standard fortunately.
 

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,081
Avanti West Coast is developing a premium economy-style offering, similar to that on airlines.

Passengers in premium economy could be entitled to "the bigger seat, better wi-fi and snacks rather than a meal"

A good thing or a bad thing?

Damn stupid idea
Just means fewer seats for normal people - unless the idea is to reduce the number of first class seats
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top