Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not sure you'd fit 3+2 in a 390?
The seating layout of the 390s is not changing. This has been confirmed multiple times, and is due to the high cost of rewiring the reservations system if they did.
Not sure you'd fit 3+2 in a 390?
Damn stupid idea
Just means fewer seats for normal people - unless the idea is to reduce the number of first class seats
It used to be possible to get this for 100% of the standard class price in MK3 days. I.e. a wider seat, table to yourself, nice quiet coach about half full...
Just look at it now - one class of uncomfortable, barely padded seating, but some of the seats cost extra and have a handkerchief on the headrest!
Similar to first class on many regional and urban routes in counties such as Germany and Belgium where it’s the same 2+2 seating layout...
Sorry you are correct but the sentiment is the same. Not sure why I thought they were Virgin, too much wine!Virgin haven’t run from Bristol for over 12 years! The idea seems to be a class between standard and first, not a downgrade of standard fortunately.
A bit like Weekend First then, but during the weekYes, it is. Indeed, what it will involve is First Class seats being sold as the interim class but without service.
The Pendolino internal layout is not being changed.
I've only ever witnessed 2+1 on German trains in 1st.
A bit like Weekend First then, but during the week
What is a "normal" person in railway terms may I ask? If I decide to spend my hard earned on a more comfortable seat/environment, whereas some might spend theirs on booze, cigarettes, expensive holidays etc., does that make me abnormal?. With the massive price difference between 1st and standard for walk up fares, why not try a middle way? If it does not work or sell seats just scrap it. No harm in trying it out.Just means fewer seats for normal people - unless the idea is to reduce the number of first class seats
Yes. I much prefer the Voyagers for that reason. Mind, there are trains I find more claustrophobic than Pendolinos. But anyway, said claustrophobia is why:Does anyone else find the Pendolinos claustrophobic? It's not something that bothers me particularly, but a window seat in Standard is definitely cramped (due to the cant) and I'm only 5'9" and 12 st.
For a reasonable price, I think this is a very good idea. When I've paid the extra for first it's been for the extra space, more than anything. That, and to avoid drunk footy fans.Yes, it is. Indeed, what it will involve is First Class seats being sold as the interim class but without service.
The Pendolino internal layout is not being changed.
For a reasonable price, I think this is a very good idea. When I've paid the extra for first it's been for the extra space, more than anything. That, and to avoid drunk footy fans.
I see rail travel as a public utility and it should be affordably priced so I can just turn up and take my wife or family somewhere for less than it costs in the car ( and I am talking petrol only here as there are lots of other costs involved if you do not have your car at the other end quite often). Sadly UK rail travel is not like that but we must be mindful that we will have to reduce our travel, certainly by car in order to reduce emissions so rail travel has to become cheaper (I know that the knock on effect is that there will not be enough rail capacity without investment). I have no problem how you spend your money but essentially UK rail travel is more geared around making money for TOCs (why else would they want to do it?). For most normal people we would like a cheaper rail system, a basic seat at a reasonable price not one that is geared to maximise profit. If this new option means a reduction in first class seats and is not at the expense of the current second class seats then I would not be so bothered about this, but it does seem a way of over complicating things which normally adds to cost. Before someone berates me about wanting a cheaper service which they will say is impossible I am yet to be convinced that we get value for money out of our railways in terms of design, procurement of technology, lack of standardisation and cost of staff. It always seems to be short term investment not long term joined up thinking. Happy to be proved wrong (well not happy as that means costs would remain high) of course.What is a "normal" person in railway terms may I ask? If I decide to spend my hard earned on a more comfortable seat/environment, whereas some might spend theirs on booze, cigarettes, expensive holidays etc., does that make me abnormal?. With the massive price difference between 1st and standard for walk up fares, why not try a middle way? If it does not work or sell seats just scrap it. No harm in trying it out.
A bit different from the sound of it. Silver Standard was getting a first-class-style service in a standard-class seat. This proposal looks more like getting a standard-class-style service in a first-class seat.A bit like this?
They might even allow you more than one triangle of toast for breakfast without scowling at you.Given that first-class catering on Virgin Trains was pretty much a snack, does this mean that Avanti first-class catering is going to be improved?
A bit different from the sound of it. Silver Standard was getting a first-class-style service in a standard-class seat. This proposal looks more like getting a standard-class-style service in a first-class seat.
Yes, it is. Indeed, what it will involve is First Class seats being sold as the interim class but without service.
RENFE does that with the AVE, there is Preferente with 2+1 seating and meals on weekdays, Turista Plus which is the same as Preferente but no meals and Turista which is 2+2 seating. On weekends, Turista Plus and Preferente differ only on price.
Will Avanti offer meals in First Class on weekends though?
That's an interesting question. I wonder if it might be that it will offer only two classes (Standard and "premium economy") on weekends, with "proper" First Class being available on weekdays only?
The other thing I'm curious about is whether specific sections of the current First Class will be split into First and the new Premium Economy or if they arrange it so as many seats as needed can be used.
The point about having proper First only on Mon-Sat is a possibility, certainly if the meal service is weekdays only and the new Class effectively negates the need for 'Weekend First', it might be the best option to fill those seats more efficiently
Virgin haven’t run from Bristol for over 12 years! The idea seems to be a class between standard and first, not a downgrade of standard fortunately.
Damn stupid idea
Just means fewer seats for normal people - unless the idea is to reduce the number of first class seats
A staff member the other day implied one first carriage was being removed the trains.
If they aren't reconfiguring the seating, they have the choice of a fixed or variable approach. By this I mean that they could designate what are now the first class carriages as "new first" and "premium economy" either as a fixed allocation, or by varying the number of seats in each by demand and perhaps route or time of day.
Wasn't one of the things the government asked bidders to do was to consider reducing first class seating to increase overall seating capacity?
Perhaps this is their compromise, keep the same seating layout but price it more aggressively to get more bums on seats.
Sadly UK rail travel is not like that but we must be mindful that we will have to reduce our travel, certainly by car in order to reduce emissions so rail travel has to become cheaper (I know that the knock on effect is that there will not be enough rail capacity without investment).