Grumpy Git
On Moderation
The MML HST buffet car 1st class seats were always declassified when I used the service in the early 80's.
'Middle-class' carriages: Rail passengers offered 'premium economy' fares
9 DECEMBER 2019 • 4:32PM
Three classes of travel will be introduced to Britain's railways for the first time in 60 years, the chief executive of the new West Coast mainline has announced.
While previously the only options on a train have been the plush seats and a hot meal in first class or a squeeze in standard, the new trains will feature a middle tier with snacks, more legroom and faster WiFi.
Avanti West Coast, which replaced Virgin Trains on the West Coast Main Line on Sunday, is developing a premium economy-style offering, similar to that on airlines.
Avanti managing director Phil Whittingham, who previously held the same role at Virgin Trains, said: "We know there is going to be three classes. It is going to be a first class, a premium economy-type style and economy."
He said passengers in premium economy could be entitled to "the bigger seat, better wi-fi and snacks rather than a meal".
Britain has not had three tiers of seats on its trains since 1956, when trains had first class, second class and third class.
It is not known how much the new middle tier of fares would cost.
Matthew Gregory, chief executive of FirstGroup, which joint-owns the franchise with Italian firm Trenitalia, said the change in policy is "about balancing and being flexible within the train".
He went on: "Obviously first class can be quite expensive, so there are different price points between standard class and first class and it is about seeing if we can offer a more flexible offering that suits more price points."
It is likely that the new tickets will come into play when the Pendolino trains inherited from Virgin are upgraded.
First Rail managing director Steve Montgomery described the 56 trains the company inherited from Virgin Trains as “tired”.
The firm has promised to significantly improve the carriages used with a £117 million refurbishment of the Pendolinos and replacing Super Voyagers with new trains.
There will be 25,000 new seats, more reliable wi-fi and improved catering. The revamp of the trains is likely to happen by autumn 2020, and the new trains will be on the line by 2022.
FirstGroup reportedly considered introducing three classes on west coast services in its ill-fated 2012 bid for the franchise.
A year later, the Department for Transport was forced to deny it was planning to require a "third-class service" to be introduced on the East Coast Main Line, after a three-tier system was included in a leaked franchise prospectus ahead of a return to private ownership.
Rail expert Mark Smith, founder of Seat61.com, told the PA news agency: "When it comes to intercity travel, there does seem to be scope for having some extra classes, but it depends what they're doing and how they're doing it."
Cross-Channel rail operator Eurostar offers three classes of travel.
The middle class, named Standard Premier, entitles ticket holders to a larger seat where they are served a light meal and drinks.
But there is still a hot meal in the evening isn't there? Or do you mean there used to be at weekends and isn't now?Several years ago a hot food smell would waft through coach K during the evening. The first class meal is now a wrap or sandwich, OR cheese and crackers with a bag of crisps and a banana. Total cost: about £2.
The majority of local seasons in 1st are pay when challenged - sit in 1st then upgrade for £1.50 if they check tickets.
The industry frequently has responded to questions of how will you stop my train being so crowded in the future by explaining they wish to manage demand more by the use of more advances.Out of curiosity, what don't you like about compulsory reservations? For the kind of medium/long distance journeys this 'premium economy' service is aimed at, I would have thought that most passengers would know at least the day before what their outward travel plans were, even if they needed some flexibility on a return leg.
I am not so sure of that. It will surely be a case of turning Coach K into 'first' and Coaches G,H and J into 'Premium economy'. People can read signs, so as long as it isn't a mix and match where Premium Economy and First are in fact the same seating area, but just a service is different, I cannot see it being a major problem.So much scope for confusion amongst passengers here (as there was when First Class was called 'Club Class' on Virgin Cross Country, or when Midland Main Line had a short lived 'Business Class' which was in First Class seats but without the free service) - it works on Eurostar and aircraft because you have an allocated seat that you must use, but I can see this being a real problem for someone with an anytime type ticket who is just looking for somewhere to sit.
Is anyone able to clarify whether the current WCML First Class meal offering is guaranteed within the price or complementary, or may be withdrawn due to unforeseen circumstance on occasion?
Are customers able to reclaim the difference in fare if first class meal, or service, was unavailable due to unforeseen circumstances?
- kind of what "simplification" did a few years ago
My prediction is one of the first class coaches will be given over to the new "premium standard". 2+1 seating with just tea/coffee/water given as freebies, maybe a snack box (similar to the old Weekend First offer) on certain flows.
Then at weekends, they can do away with having 1st class and just have premium standard & standard to reflect the reduced offer.
It does appear so but the coaches in the picture had fixed armrests between the seats so she could not be.Is she sitting over two seats there?
I’ve seen Avanti have a page on their website called “Value” the picture being mock up 3+2 seating on a Pendolino, I hope this isn’t what standard becomes. If so I may refrain from using Avanti as it is not how long distance intercity travel should be done
Looks like someone put a hoax out there then (NOT ME)
Looks like someone put a hoax out there then (NOT ME)
, no 'reserved' indicator screens.
3+2 seating on a Pendolino
Aye. But it looks like that might be covered up with a wide masking tape?
Found it - it's Chinese, I think the CRH5A. Thought it might be them as Standard is 3+2 on all their (very wide) high speed trains:
CRH5 interior in Standard
They do seem to be very slightly different seats (no armrests) but it's definitely that interior. The lights and racks are correct.