Greater Anglia 2019 - What could possibly go wrong?

[F Great Eastern]

Well, low staff morale doesn't necessarily forecast a year of issues in itself, especially when change is underway. 2020 will be worse for punctuality for sure, as either the old stock will continue to rot or the new stock will have arrived and be in its infancy with the usual lower MTIN figures to begin with.

Of course, my point was that there are a number of issues at the moment which when all put together, suggest that 2020 may well not be any better than this year and could be much worse.

We've still got the Stansted Express, Intercity and Bombardier fleet introduction programs to start yet and the later one is what worries me the most, because at least with the MK3s and the Stansted Express, as it stands it's likely they can keep hold of existing rolling stock there for a while if needbe.

We're really still early days in this fleet program and there's still an awful lot that can go wrong on other lines and routes still.

 

[samuelmorris]

Of course, my point was that there are a number of issues at the moment which when all put together, suggest that 2020 may well not be any better than this year and could be much worse.

We've still got the Stansted Express, Intercity and Bombardier fleet introduction programs to start yet and the later one is what worries me the most, because at least with the MK3s and the Stansted Express, as it stands it's likely they can keep hold of existing rolling stock there for a while if needbe.

We're really still early days in this fleet program and there's still an awful lot that can go wrong on other lines and routes still.

With you there, the Stadlers may be a much more complicated arrangement to get sorted with the myriad of lines to cover, power mode changeovers, introduction of SDO where it wasn't needed before and the first fleet commissioning of a product family new to the UK, but the 720s will be no cakewalk as the entirety of a mainline fleet is being replaced by new units with their inevitable bathtub curve, never mind Bombardier's very poor record so far with the Aventra platform. I would put a not insignificant amount of money on 720s not attaining above 5000 MTIN by the end of 2020, let alone the 20,000 the fleet of 321s everybody complains about achieve. Let's ignore the figures the 360s and 379s post, I doubt 720s will ever reach those numbers.

Long and short, either the 720 introduction goes well, in which case the fleet reliability is divided by at least 4 or 5 with even fewer spare units than today, or it doesn't and there's a shortfall to deal with and its resultant short formations etc.

I also anticipate that even with everything settled down, the lack of 745/0s ordered means 720/5s will routinely be pilfered from Southend and Braintree to cover leaving 5-car peak services a regular occurrence.

 

[ashkeba]

A small correction I think: SDO was needed before but it was not available so the trains were kept short even if they needed to be longer.

 

[47421]

SDO may well turn out to be a very real issue. On West Anglia most platforms are 8x20m stock max. There are 3 Cambridge peak services each way and balancing workings that are 12car but they only stop at 12car platforms. There is no booked SDO at all. If they deliver on "every train will be longer" that will mean in the peak most stops will be SDO - it is a huge change in operating practice and will take a lot of getting used to by staff and passengers. Of course it will be mostly automated but even so.

 

[F Great Eastern]

SDO may well turn out to be a very real issue. On West Anglia most platforms are 8x20m stock max. There are 3 Cambridge peak services each way and balancing workings that are 12car but they only stop at 12car platforms. There is no booked SDO at all. If they deliver on "every train will be longer" that will mean in the peak most stops will be SDO - it is a huge change in operating practice and will take a lot of getting used to by staff and passengers. Of course it will be mostly automated but even so.

Every train is longer:
1 Carriage trains are being replaced by 3 carraige trains
2 carriage trains are being replaced by 3 carraige trains
3 carriage trains are being replaced by 4 carriage trains
4 carriage trains are being replaced by 5 carriage trains
8 carriage trains are being replaced by 12 carriage trains
9 carriage trains are being replaced by 12 carriage trains

They never said that every service will be longer, just that every train will be, and since every unit is longer than the unit it replaces and every unit is longer than the loco hauled stock it is replacing their claim won't be wrong.

Now both me and you know that by train, they implied the formation of services would be longer, but their PR team are known for their spin and if push comes to shove and we see a 5 car Aventra replacing an 8 car 360, we will no doubt see GA use the above explanation.

 

[47421]

well they did say - Denby presentation to Suffolk Chamber Transport and Infrastructure Board 4 April 2017 - that "All trains 10-car in peak" with reference to West Anglia and Great Eastern routes

In any event the SDO point stands. On WA currently none at all, with 10-car Aventras hundreds of stops a day

 

[F Great Eastern]

well they did say - Denby presentation to Suffolk Chamber Transport and Infrastructure Board 4 April 2017 - that "All trains 10-car in peak" with reference to West Anglia and Great Eastern routes

I'll eat my hat if they manage to run all trains as 10 cars at peak time without some massaging of timetables or small reductions in frequency at times,, it's debatable if there is enough units even with all of them in service to really allow that in my view, let alone when they're at the start of the bathtub curve with many missing every day.

 

[hwl]

In any event the SDO point stands. On WA currently none at all, with 10-car Aventras hundreds of stops a day

GTR and LO both each manage thousands a day. the passenges will adapt
The issue will be that the last 3 cars will be emptier than the rest but there are plenty of easy platforms extension that can be done just leaving SDO for the too difficult or pretty low quiet stations (but ome suspects Anglia will be dragged kicking and screaming to do those extensions as it will have to be proven that it is needed to manage down dwell times.

 

[86246]

GA have enjoyed a mostly positive local press this year with the introduction of the Norwich in 90 and the 755s on some of the rural routes.

Strange to see that the week following the unpopular 153s going off lease that this has all changed as their introduction of the 755s hasn’t gone according to plan and the cancellations list has been lengthy.

At least the cancellations haven’t been quite so bad today.

 

[eastdyke]

GA have enjoyed a mostly positive local press this year with the introduction of the Norwich in 90 and the 755s on some of the rural routes.

Strange to see that the week following the unpopular 153s going off lease that this has all changed as their introduction of the 755s hasn’t gone according to plan and the cancellations list has been lengthy.

At least the cancellations haven’t been quite so bad today.

The cancellations have been fewer today [just 1 on the East Suffolk I think], I didn't want to tempt providence by offering a little praise for being where we are today compared with earlier in the week. Well done.
Around 19 cancellations today in total, just one more unit with crews capable of running without restriction could have halved that.
There is more to do of course as a further 9 units are due to leave across the month.

I am sure that the bad recent media coverage stems from GA simply not running the trains, after all the raison d'être of the job. The Ni90 has been more like Ni101 as well.

In the week before they left I witnessed passengers at Ipswich being denied travel on a 153 and given the choice of a 1 hour wait or a rail supplementary bus. But this was with the 153 doing duty on a peak time East Suffolk that would simply not have happened before the departure of the 170s. And the same passengers were also seeing a 4 car Flirt on the Felixstowes (which we know was for crew training as well as running the service).

When the new trains are all in service, and we arrive in the promised land, this current episode will be forgotten, at least on the Rural Routes .....

 

[trebor79]

Yes, I do find myself forgetting all of the problems the moment I step off a freezing platform into a warm 755. "This is nice".

Concerned about the catering downgrade coming on the intercity services. Real backward step that.

It's a shame they got sucked into a couple of politicians vanity project with the Ni90. Was there actually any pressing demand for these "crack" expresses from normal passengers?

 

[86246]

98 cancellations on journey check this morning. With the exception of the almost usual 08:00 to London and 10:30 return, all rural services and the reason given is major signalling problems.

 

[153375]

Did the 1st 156 leave yesterday to EMR as expected? Was meant to be 156419

 

[F Great Eastern]

Leaves on the line is being blamed for signal issues effecting just greater Anglia new stock.

Other operators stock. Freight and legacy stock not effected. Lots of theories on why.

 

[dk1]

Leaves on the line is being blamed for signal issues effecting just greater Anglia new stock.

Other operators stock. Freight and legacy stock not effected. Lots of theories on why.

Same reason as to the problems that have been ongoing between Norwich & Salhouse on the Bittern line for the last week maybe?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Same reason as to the problems that have been ongoing between Norwich & Salhouse on the Bittern line for the last week maybe?

Another excellent win for the project team, who once again shown the danger of listening to the people who know the theory of everything and the practice of nothing. Their lack of experience in such rolling stock rollouts becomes more obious by the day.

I notice that you said in the other thread that apparently this is similar to what has happened with other rolling stock introduction, if only Greater Anglia either had an experienced engineering director or seeked the input of their operations team more, they might have allowed for such things.....

Jamie Burles should be coming out and fronting up about the problems rather than hiding behind Denby. The fact that the MD frequently is seen during the good times taking all the praise on the new trains but goes hiding when there are problems is poor leadership.

 

[eastdyke]

Just logged in to disbelief, all on my fault entirely, to my fellow native East Anglians - sorry.
That little bit of praise last night sure jinxed it.
With regard to the current railhead conditions, are these not seen in mainland Europe and other places where Stadlers already operate?

 

[stuart81]

Another excellent win for the project team, who once again shown the danger of listening to the people who know the theory of everything and the practice of nothing. Their lack of experience in such rolling stock rollouts becomes more obious by the day.

I notice that you said in the other thread that apparently this is similar to what has happened with other rolling stock introduction, if only Greater Anglia either had an experienced engineering director or seeked the input of their operations team more, they might have allowed for such things.....

Jamie Burles should be coming out and fronting up about the problems rather than hiding behind Denby. The fact that the MD frequently is seen during the good times taking all the praise on the new trains but goes hiding when there are problems is poor leadership.

You are absolutely revelling in this aren't you

 

[F Great Eastern]

You are absolutely revelling in this aren't you

Not really, it's made serious dents in my bduget by having to use taxis for employees because we can't rely on the train service. The cost to business and the region is very bad, people cannot get to school or work or see their sick relatives etc.

If you had to use the service to get to work every day and the current level of service is so bad, would you be happy? How about if your students were taking exams or you were going to see a sick relative or get to your studies?

Nobody is revelling in this at all from where I am seeing, we are just very frustrated with the current situation since some of it could have been foreseen and prevented with a better plan and more contingency. Right now I'm staying away from the local lines because it's just too risky to depend on trains running at all.

Do you work for Greater Anglia? Reason I ask is that you only seem to post to defend them and have a pop at people who are unhappy. GA would be best advised to be a little more sympathetic to their customers as they are the true victims, not GA being victims of bad luck and mishaps. The MD should be front and centre right now explaining the situation honestly and saying what is going to be done to rectify it. That is what leaders should do in times like this.

 

[Nighthawke]

Did the 1st 156 leave yesterday to EMR as expected? Was meant to be 156419

If one did go it certainly wasn't 419 as I saw this at Bury St Edmunds on the 2L75 Peterborough-Ipswich this lunchtime

 

[ashkeba]

Don't worry, it's a total S show around Cambridge with GA regionals cancelled, Thameslink cancellations due to hitting a person and GN delayed by a train fault. Full and standing was this evening's train for me. Probably the best time for GA to cancel is when Thameslink and GN are also turning the new screens orange and pink (but that's a rant for another thread).

 

[LAX54]

You are absolutely revelling in this aren't you

Stadler also keeping very quiet !

 

[F Great Eastern]

Stadler also keeping very quiet !

They're probably talking to their suppliers....

 

[MikeWM]

Don't worry, it's a total S show around Cambridge with GA regionals cancelled

Doesn't look like things improved much. I see the last trains to both Ipswich and Norwich didn't run tonight.

GN in on the act too, looks like the last train to Kings Lynn is also cancelled.

Don't recall a night when so many last trains haven't run. Poor night for it too, with office Christmas parties and the like.

 

[Alfie1014]

My cynical view is that no matter how difficult this week becomes nothing substantial will be done this side of the election. It will be hugely embarrassing for the Tories to admit to a TOC’s major failings before Friday and play right into Labour’s nationalisation hands. There has been a stunning silence from the Con candidates in the region, I would imagine that Central Office have given out clear instructions to them not to rock the boat until after Election Day.

Afterwards irrespective of whoever wins I don’t think things can continue as now. The lack of leadership is very disappointing, it must be very disheartening for the staff on the ground and the current ‘blaming’ of Network Rail’s infrastructure (which hasn’t changed) whereas the TOCs trains have is down right dishonest, this is apparently causing much disquiet across the industry.

A pretty depressing state of affairs all round.

 

[F Great Eastern]

My cynical view is that no matter how difficult this week becomes nothing substantial will be done this side of the election. It will be hugely embarrassing for the Tories to admit to a TOC’s major failings before Friday and play right into Labour’s nationalisation hands. There has been a stunning silence from the Con candidates in the region, I would imagine that Central Office have given out clear instructions to them not to rock the boat until after Election Day.

Afterwards irrespective of whoever wins I don’t think things can continue as now. The lack of leadership is very disappointing, it must be very disheartening for the staff on the ground and the current ‘blaming’ of Network Rail’s infrastructure (which hasn’t changed) whereas the TOCs trains have is down right dishonest, this is apparently causing much disquiet across the industry.

This post on another forum is interesting in relation to some of the above as is the Q&A page added today on the Greater Anglia site to see what apparently is going on and the official explanation in more detail.

However you are right that there is no way that anything is going to be done at the moment with an election around the corner, it would be suicide for them to give Labour any ammunition.

 

[Midnight Sun]

Not really, it's made serious dents in my bduget by having to use taxis for employees because we can't rely on the train service. The cost to business and the region is very bad, people cannot get to school or work or see their sick relatives etc.

If you had to use the service to get to work every day and the current level of service is so bad, would you be happy? How about if your students were taking exams or you were going to see a sick relative or get to your studies?

At least you had the option of a taxi, I was stuck at Manea station after arriving to catch the 1507 back to March. As were a number of other people who had brought tickets at the machine before hand. None of the taxi companies in March would send one out (To far) and the last 56 bus left at 14.30 thats if it turn up (Often stops short in March turns back to Wisbich). Had a choice of either walking to Wimblington five miles away and catching a 39 bus to March or waiting for 18.26 XC.

 

[camflyer]

Doesn't look like things improved much. I see the last trains to both Ipswich and Norwich didn't run tonight.

GN in on the act too, looks like the last train to Kings Lynn is also cancelled.

Don't recall a night when so many last trains haven't run. Poor night for it too, with office Christmas parties and the like.

There have been no trains between Cambridge and Ipswich all weekend. I spent 40 mins waiting for a rail replacement bus to turn up and then gave in.

 

[Alfie1014]

GA have announced that the on train catering offer on the London - Norwich route will be reduced from January. The service will be withdrawn from the 05:00 and 05:30 SX & SO and 06:00 SO from Norwich to Liverpool Street and the return workings from Liv St and all services on Sundays. https://www.edp24.co.uk/business/greater-anglia-to-cut-catering-from-some-trains-1-6417952

 

[chubs]

GA have announced that the on train catering offer on the London - Norwich route will be reduced from January. The service will be withdrawn from the 05:00 and 05:30 SX & SO and 06:00 SO from Norwich to Liverpool Street and the return workings from Liv St and all services on Sundays. https://www.edp24.co.uk/business/greater-anglia-to-cut-catering-from-some-trains-1-6417952

As someone who used to use the buffet I was surprised they bothered to retain it at all on the 745's. It serves very poor quality food and coffee at vast prices on a 2 hour max route. With so much choice in stations (and usually some even better quality independents outside stations) it's largely unnecessary. I'm sure some of the enthusiasts will miss it and those in a rush with no time to stock up beforehand but it's a move we've seen a lot of over the years and will see more of all over the network.