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Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

Geswedey

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Joined
8 Jul 2016
Messages
48
My observation is that the 9 routes included in the 'Service' dropdown are just the routes to/from Liverpool St., IC, suburban and outer suburban.
Right now there shoud be a section directed at the 'Marsh Dwellers' of rural Cambridgeshire, Norfolk and Suffolk along the lines of:
'To enable you to complete your journey, please bring own {folded} punt' ;)
When I worked in GA control (NOW RETIRED) We would get other GA managers complaining about the good service message when the Rural routes were up the creek and we would have to explain it only concerned routes based on Liverpool Street, we would also have to explain how the algorithms worked which automatically adjust the service status (they are based on the number of trains on the route in the current hour hence the Braintree line for example would show major disruption if one train is cancelled but the Southend line wouldn't) I did ask for the rurals to be added but didn't get anywhere.
 
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ashkeba

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13 May 2019
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Why has GA switched to calling them Rural instead of Regional? Have we not been insulted enough yet?
 

Martello

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10 Dec 2019
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12
Location
Suffolk
Whilst the media and the customers are understandably directing criticism at GA & NR for the current debacle, surely some criticism should be directed at the way in which rolling stock is now leased? If GA hadn't had to return the stock that went off lease, they might have been able to their maintain services with the older stock while the current problems were resolved. Was there no way of deferring the cascade of GA stock to other TOCs, when it became apparent that the 755 roll out was running into trouble?
 

168001

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10 Oct 2019
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56
Location
Oxford
Whilst the media and the customers are understandably directing criticism at GA & NR for the current debacle, surely some criticism should be directed at the way in which rolling stock is now leased? If GA hadn't had to return the stock that went off lease, they might have been able to their maintain services with the older stock while the current problems were resolved. Was there no way of deferring the cascade of GA stock to other TOCs, when it became apparent that the 755 roll out was running into trouble?

The 170’s were delayed as much as possible but with new time tables coming in soon the units have been factored in to be able to run these. By the end of December the only legacy train left will be 170271.
 

ashkeba

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13 May 2019
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2,171
Was there no way of deferring the cascade of GA stock to other TOCs, when it became apparent that the 755 roll out was running into trouble?
I think only by getting permission to keep running disability-discriminating old trains for even longer. I think this problem could still have happened under nationalisation with the deadline and not enough fully-legal DMUs available meaning lots of new orders. Even under BR, if Anglia region had got new DMUs and they had a fault, would Western or Midland or whoever had taken them really have sent them some of the old DMUs back?
 

Trainfan344

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13 Oct 2012
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2,306
If they call us Regional it sounds slightly posher and we might actually want a decent service.
 

F Great Eastern

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2 Apr 2009
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East Anglia
Was out on the network today on the East Suffolk and Wherry lines and I have to say that the 755s I saw didn't sound the most healthy under rails or moving away, nothing major bu not exactly smooth sounding.

Had the joy of being on the 17:02 from Lowestoft to Ipswich, which was a 156, late arriving into Lowestoft due to getting stuck behind another train but at least it turned around pretty quickly at Lowestoft (so clearly they're not giving them inspections like the FLIRTs are getting) and have to say the guard was great, making sure to help each passenger plan their journey and give them travel advice, alternative routes, delay repay info, because of their disrupted plans as well as being very honest about the current situation.

I already know that we had great front line staff in East Anglia for the most part but what was clear today in relation to every staff member I saw, was even if the management are not doing much to support customers the front line staff are truly on our side and honestly want to make peoples journeys as soon as possible.

If you are a front line staff member reading this - keep up the good work, your dedication to customers and positive attitude to resolving problems on the front line puts your senior management to shame.
 

dk1

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2 Oct 2009
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East Anglia
Was out on the network today on the East Suffolk and Wherry lines and I have to say that the 755s I saw didn't sound the most healthy under rails or moving away, nothing major bu not exactly smooth sounding.

Had the joy of being on the 17:02 from Lowestoft to Ipswich, which was a 156, late arriving into Lowestoft due to getting stuck behind another train but at least it turned around pretty quickly at Lowestoft (so clearly they're not giving them inspections like the FLIRTs are getting) and have to say the guard was great, making sure to help each passenger plan their journey and give them travel advice, alternative routes, delay repay info, because of their disrupted plans as well as being very honest about the current situation.

I already know that we had great front line staff in East Anglia for the most part but what was clear today in relation to every staff member I saw, was even if the management are not doing much to support customers the front line staff are truly on our side and honestly want to make peoples journeys as soon as possible.

If you are a front line staff member reading this - keep up the good work, your dedication to customers and positive attitude to resolving problems on the front line puts your senior management to shame.
Now I am nothing if not honest & I can say I get more than a little fed up with what I consider to be consistently negative comments & opinions from yourself against GA but thank you for your last post especially the end bit. In the last few days I have tried (mostly with success) to explain the problem & have been humbled by the response & understanding from those passengers I have encountered. Their empathy to those on the front line has been so welcome. We try our hardest but can only do so much. Let's hope thing improve soon.
 

F Great Eastern

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East Anglia
Now I am nothing if not honest & I can say I get more than a little fed up with what I consider to be consistently negative comments & opinions from yourself against GA but thank you for your last post especially the end bit. In the last few days I have tried (mostly with success) to explain the problem & have been humbled by the response & understanding from those passengers I have encountered. Their empathy to those on the front line has been so welcome. We try our hardest but can only do so much. Let's hope thing improve soon.

My issue has never been with the front line staff, it has been with management so please do not take any criticism personally since I know there are a lot of good people still in Greater Anglia that are a credit to the company.

My criticism is coming from the place that the issues have an impact on my colleagues and my employer as well as myself. The sector I work in is dealing with ever shrinking central government funding and we continually have to do more with less and part of that has meant less staff but more mobile staff. Expenses are very high as we've had to use taxis and alternative arrangements and in a time of budget cuts with wafer thin margins that have already had a number 0.5 haircut we can't sustain it forever. Much of what we do is time sensitive, so delay repay whilst welcome isn't a big fix as we may just end up needing a taxi as we can't wait.

There is a lot of people who really have had enough of what is going on with Greater Anglia, but the front line staff and the approachability and honesty and helpful nature of them means that I don't see a huge amount of tension at stations or on trains because I think your average member of the public knows that the staff are on their side and are not against them.
 
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LAX54

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Joined
15 Jan 2008
Messages
3,753
Was out on the network today on the East Suffolk and Wherry lines and I have to say that the 755s I saw didn't sound the most healthy under rails or moving away, nothing major bu not exactly smooth sounding.

Had the joy of being on the 17:02 from Lowestoft to Ipswich, which was a 156, late arriving into Lowestoft due to getting stuck behind another train but at least it turned around pretty quickly at Lowestoft (so clearly they're not giving them inspections like the FLIRTs are getting) and have to say the guard was great, making sure to help each passenger plan their journey and give them travel advice, alternative routes, delay repay info, because of their disrupted plans as well as being very honest about the current situation.

I already know that we had great front line staff in East Anglia for the most part but what was clear today in relation to every staff member I saw, was even if the management are not doing much to support customers the front line staff are truly on our side and honestly want to make peoples journeys as soon as possible.

If you are a front line staff member reading this - keep up the good work, your dedication to customers and positive attitude to resolving problems on the front line puts your senior management to shame.

There are NO checks on the 156's nor the 170, as they are not needed, it is purely the wheels on the 755 sets, that have come off the train !
 

trebor79

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Joined
8 Mar 2018
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4,435
Having strategically bought a through ticket to Sleaford, rather than my usual split saving half the fare, my train from Attleborough Ely was disappointingly on time this morning :D.
Lost a couple of minutes on the way which is unusual for a 755. Seemed to be driven more gently than has hitherto been normal. I also believe the friction brakes were active at a higher speed than I have previously noticed. Upon arrival at Ely it then drew forward into the sidings south of the station to layover and I guess have whatever inspections are necessary carried out.
 

Henry Johnson

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Joined
11 Feb 2018
Messages
11
The simple fact is that greater anglia have developed a reputation of lying through the back of their teeth. Regarding the signalling problem, are they seriously illuding to freightliner, gbrf, east midlands trains, and others being able to fly or jump over the bad signals?

I commute on the east suffolk line three days a week from lowestoft to colchester and now they have gone back to the era of one train every two hours, I wonder how much longer it will be before someone sues them.

They've sent all the old trains away and are denying it, they've ordered trains that we are all now learning are not really up to the job, and people are losing their jobs and their livelihoods because of it.

I have heard rumours that they have now resorted to removing the pantograph on the new trains. Why can't they do what they use to do in a shortage and hire trains in from other operators, such as DRS, and more so, why didn't they just order the right stock from the beginning, such as mk5 coaches and caf DMU's or something like that?

Ho well. Let's see what the new year brings.
 

samuelmorris

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18 Jul 2013
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5,121
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Brentwood, Essex
The simple fact is that greater anglia have developed a reputation of lying through the back of their teeth. Regarding the signalling problem, are they seriously illuding to freightliner, gbrf, east midlands trains, and others being able to fly or jump over the bad signals?

I commute on the east suffolk line three days a week from lowestoft to colchester and now they have gone back to the era of one train every two hours, I wonder how much longer it will be before someone sues them.

They've sent all the old trains away and are denying it, they've ordered trains that we are all now learning are not really up to the job, and people are losing their jobs and their livelihoods because of it.

I have heard rumours that they have now resorted to removing the pantograph on the new trains. Why can't they do what they use to do in a shortage and hire trains in from other operators, such as DRS, and more so, why didn't they just order the right stock from the beginning, such as mk5 coaches and caf DMU's or something like that?

Ho well. Let's see what the new year brings.
I would argue both Mk5 coaches and CAF DMUs would both be the wrong choice for the routes intended. This is a technical defect that needs resolving, much like most new stock fleets (including CAF) have suffered. The problem is that the delay to the new stock being delivered has caused old stock to be sent away before the bugs with the new stock have been dealt with. That's compounded by the dishonesty of the TOC not stating what the actual cause of the issue is, thus giving passengers unreasonable expectations of when it will be solved. Signal problems should be resolved in hours/days, not the weeks I'm sure it will take to get to the bottom of this issue and resolve it.
 

trebor79

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8 Mar 2018
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4,435
Why can't they do what they use to do in a shortage and hire trains in from other operators, such as DRS,
For the reasons that people have already given. Where is this stock supposed to come from? And how do you train people on it quickly, without causing even more disruption for a potential few weeks of use?

As for rumours about this and that, they are just rumours. I seriously doubt the pantographs will be removed. For one thing it would prevent them running to Stansted, and for another it would cause serious issues with keeping them fuelled if they can't use electrified sections.
The panto not retracting is likely to be easily solved, and hardly likely to warrant removal from the whole fleet for a fundamental issue.
 

ashkeba

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13 May 2019
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2,171
I commute on the east suffolk line three days a week from lowestoft to colchester and now they have gone back to the era of one train every two hours, I wonder how much longer it will be before someone sues them.
Probably a long time. I bet the contracts and laws have enough words that make it difficult to sue them, just like you can't easily sue Highways England when the A14 is closed by something forseeable.

They've sent all the old trains away and are denying it, they've ordered trains that we are all now learning are not really up to the job, and people are losing their jobs and their livelihoods because of it.
Who's lost their jobs?

The new trains are lovely, but like most new trains, they have problems early on. Even the 387 Electrostars at Cambridge had problems early on, with small crowds of GN, GA and Bombardier staff present to try to get the trains to couple up!

I have heard rumours that they have now resorted to removing the pantograph on the new trains.
If that was true, I would expect someone to have posted a picture by now. I suspect someone has misunderstood it being out of use until they understand why one failed to drop at Stowmarket.

Why can't they do what they use to do in a shortage and hire trains in from other operators, such as DRS,
As far as I can tell, there just aren't enough spare legal diesel sets any more, so it means getting permission to screw disabled passengers and I suspect GA isn't willing to pay to hire now against the hope that either Stadler or Network Rail have to pay it back later.

and more so, why didn't they just order the right stock from the beginning, such as mk5 coaches and caf DMU's or something like that?
Much as I like them, the CAF DMUs were announced in 2016 as due late 2018 but only started service June 2019. The MkV coaches are over a year late into service and have also had problems early on. Also, they are pulled by Stadler locomotives (class 68) which may share the same problems as the Flirts and just not show it on the TPE routes, for all we know. So GA have ordered "something like that" - Stadler traction, months late into service and problems early on!

And in case someone thinks GA should have ordered from Siemens - GA may already have Desiros but the electric ones are leaving soon, Siemens haven't built any diesel UK ones for over a decade and if GA wanted to avoid having a fleet from three makers, I think the current competitors to the 745 Flirt are the Siemens Mireo and Bombardier Talent which haven't ever been made for the UK before either! The Siemens Velaro is in use by Eurostar but I do not think GA would pay for it and a 185mph EMU would be a strange choice for a 100mph line.
 

AlexNL

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Joined
19 Dec 2014
Messages
1,682
They've sent all the old trains away and are denying it,
GA have been horribly optimistic when it comes to the introduction of the new fleet. Their plans were based on the assumption that the trains would be turn-key and ready to go, despite involving a manufacturer who has never built anything for the National Rail network before.

This is interesting on its own - parent company Nederlandse Spoorwegen have burnt themselves quite badly in this way in the past, twice, but have learnt some lessons from it. Whenever NS introduce a new fleet they keep the existing trains on standby.

It looks like none of those lessons were applied to GA.
they've ordered trains that we are all now learning are not really up to the job,
They are facing some technical issues, which need resolving. This on its own isn't uncommon for new trains - as GA rightly indicate, each fleet is built tailormade for the country/area where it will run. Unlike cars, trains never "work out of the box".
I have heard rumours that they have now resorted to removing the pantograph on the new trains.
I highly doubt this. They ordered trains with pantographs for a reason - it keeps the costs down (electric is cheaper than diesel) and it also lets the trains have smaller fuel tanks as they'll run electric for part of the route.

Recently a pantograph failed to drop and it subsequently hit a bridge. Whilst this is being investigated, the trains are operated in diesel only mode.

Why can't they do what they use to do in a shortage and hire trains in from other operators, such as DRS,
Those trains need to be available in the first place and even if they are, crews need to be trained on them. That's a logistically rather complex operation and not something which is done on a whim.
and more so, why didn't they just order the right stock from the beginning, such as mk5 coaches and caf DMU's or something like that?
It's hard to say what "the right stock" is! The GA bid team decided that the Stadlers and the Bombardier Aventras would be the right stock for their future franchise. Things aren't going exactly to plan though.

For the Stadlers, one could say this is down to inexperience. GA were taking a risk and, if they had planned wise, would have put all the contingencies in place to allow their old fleet to continue while the Stadlers bedded in.

For the Aventras, from a reputable builder which has plenty of experience building for the UK, it's just a painful story. The 720s should've been in GA-land for a while but they are nowhere to be seen...
 

ashkeba

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GA have been horribly optimistic when it comes to the introduction of the new fleet. Their plans were based on the assumption that the trains would be turn-key and ready to go, despite involving a manufacturer who has never built anything for the National Rail network before.
Stadler have never built anything for the National Rail network before. Except some Class 68s. And Class 88s. And Class 399.

GA were taking a risk and, if they had planned wise, would have put all the contingencies in place to allow their old fleet to continue while the Stadlers bedded in.
Unused contingencies reduce profits. Do missing needed contingencies reduce profits more? Let's see!
 

Abbo

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10 Dec 2019
Messages
127
Location
Sheringham
No conspiracy. Simply awaiting Sheringham stations rebuild & getting ASDO passed for traffic so as to stop at Worstead, Gunton & Roughton Road.
Thanks DK1 that is reassuring.

You seem to be on the inside track so can you please answer something that has cropped on another group regarding Victoria Sidings. Will these sidings have toilet emptying facilities and or cleaning facilities for dealing with the overnighters or will the trains have to run via Crown Point ?
 

43096

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23 Nov 2015
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Stadler have never built anything for the National Rail network before. Except some Class 68s. And Class 88s. And Class 399.
Which are really Vossloh Spain products; a business only relatively recently bought by Stadler. The core Stadler business has no experience.
 

dk1

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2 Oct 2009
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East Anglia
Thanks DK1 that is reassuring.

You seem to be on the inside track so can you please answer something that has cropped on another group regarding Victoria Sidings. Will these sidings have toilet emptying facilities and or cleaning facilities for dealing with the overnighters or will the trains have to run via Crown Point ?
Good question. Trains are booked direct from Norwich each evening then back the next morning around 20-30mins before departure. Not noticed any equipment or tanks going in & there is little room between each siding so as to retain 4 roads. Drivers are planned to be taxied to/from these sidings.
 

ashkeba

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Which are really Vossloh Spain products; a business only relatively recently bought by Stadler. The core Stadler business has no experience.
Four years ago, not that recently. One hopes the ex-Vossloh's expertise is involved in the UK Flirts.
 

eastdyke

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25 Jan 2010
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East Midlands
Good question. Trains are booked direct from Norwich each evening then back the next morning around 20-30mins before departure. Not noticed any equipment or tanks going in & there is little room between each siding so as to retain 4 roads. Drivers are planned to be taxied to/from these sidings.
The Proposed Property Disposal – 25 November 2019, on the ORR website suggests that light maintenance is not permitted.
https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...-victoria-sidings-lc17-land-disposal-form.pdf
Extract:
Proposed use / scheme
Equitix (financial SPV) to fund Abellio East Anglia Ltd to construct four sidings including overhead line and staff accommodation. To be used for exclusive passenger train stabling. Light maintenance activities expressly not permitted.
Perhaps this is another case of the (affected) units having a depot visit 'intra-day'?
 

dk1

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The Proposed Property Disposal – 25 November 2019, on the ORR website suggests that light maintenance is not permitted.
Thanks very much. Not heard very much about it except it should be almost complete after a few Yuletide possessions. Work is progressing well.
 

F Great Eastern

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2 Apr 2009
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East Anglia
GA have responded to the EADT's questions - nothing unpredictable about their answers and deflection.

The response about why other operators are not effected but they are is a classic - basically saying that it's because that Network Rail are having maintenance trains on the line whilst also insinuating that NR are giving other operators preference. :rolleyes:

We are being told that the disruption is caused by "signalling problems." Why is this only affecting services on rural routes, not on the main line between East Anglia and London?
There have been some problems with parts of the signalling system on our regional routes only in Norfolk and Suffolk. The mainline is unaffected.

The investigation is examining all factors involved in the operation of the signalling system, including how passenger trains, new and old, interact with the signalling system. Other factors being examined include the impact of extreme weather conditions and leaf fall, plus looking at components of the signalling system.
Are the problems linked to the introduction of the new trains on Greater Anglia's rural services - in particular are they linked to a piece of equipment called a "flange lubricator" to reduce friction between wheel and track?
At the moment, we don't know what's causing the problem with the signalling system.

The problem is very unlikely to be linked to the flange lubricator, which does not deposit lubrication onto the track and is in any case made from graphite which is a conductive material so should not affect track circuits.
Are the "signalling problems" linked to the incident at the level crossing on the Norwich to Cromer line when a train came within a second of being in collision with a car and is currently being investigated by the RAIB?
The incident at the Norwich Road level crossing incident is still being investigated, so we don't know what caused it and if it is related to the current signalling problems.
If the problems are caused by signalling problems, why are freight trains continuing to run to Felixstowe and why are East Midland Railways trains continuing to operate between Norwich and Peterborough without disruption?
While the investigation continues, both Network Rail and Greater Anglia are taking some precautionary measures, such as extra runs of Rail Head Treatment Trains, which is having an impact on frequency and availability of Greater Anglia trains. The prioritisation of which trains can run is also a Network Rail decision.
Is this problem going to take a long time to solve (like the problems with the new Transport for London Aventra trains)?
We're really sorry, but we can't say at the moment when normal service will be resumed. But we are working closely with Network Rail to get the service back to normal as quickly as possible.
Has Greater Anglia trained enough drivers on the new trains and did you train them fast enough given the deadline to returning your existing rural trains to their leasing companies?
Yes, we do have enough drivers. We have been planning the introduction of new trains for three years and, of course, an essential part of our plans is staff training. The introduction of new trains on new routes is interlinked with the training of drivers for those routes.
Why is the Ipswich to Peterborough service withdrawn when that is one of only two routes that cannot operate new trains?
During this period of signalling problems, we've not been able to run all of our services on our rural branch lines. We've tried to minimise the inconvenience by focusing cancellations where there are best alternatives for customers. I

n this case, Ipswich to Peterborough customers are advised to complete their journey by train using alternative routes. We are very sorry for the delay this brings to our customers' journeys, but we are trying to ensure that all customers can complete their journeys
When do you expect to know why there was a problem with the overhead collection arm (pantograph) at Elmswell last week and has this forced new checks on other trains?
The issue with the pantograph has been rectified. We are confident this was an isolated incident and not associated with the design of the train. It is not connected in anyway with the current signalling problems.
How will the current issue affect the introduction of the new Intercity trains that are due to start entering service before the end of the year?
We are continuing to prepare for the introduction of the new Intercity trains. They are still in the testing phase, as soon as we're confident they're ready for passenger service we'll introduce them. Clearly, our focus has been assisting Network Rail with resolving the issues with our branch lines.
If the problems are linked to the introduction of the new trains, why did they not show up during 2,000 miles of testing over the region's rail tracks?
At this stage, we are still investigating the cause of the signalling problems, so this is a very difficult question to answer and is unlikely to be clear until our current investigations are completed.

We have carried out a series of rigorous safety and performance tests on our new trains and they've been in passenger service since July.
 

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