Northern Class 195: Initial Diagrams

[superkev]

Neville Hill supposedly has an allocation of 150s now too, and the 155s and 170s are Neville Hill allocated

Yes forgot the 170s and who could forget the 7 155s.
K

 

[northernchris]

I think most try to forget about the 155s!

 

[Mdu 66741]

Heads up at Nottingham, 195009 booked on the 1409 off Leeds, 1617 return from Nottingham.

Any chance it might be out tomorrow Tuesday 10th December 2019

 

[Spartacus]

Any chance it might be out tomorrow Tuesday 10th December 2019

Two out today, 195015 on the 0515 Sheffield - Nottingham and 195009 on 0804 Leeds - Nottingham and associated services.

 

[Wharfe106]

Ah, so both the Lincoln and Nottingham to Leeds, which will be receiving 195s, will be routed through Barnsley?

Super.

As far as I am aware, yes, 'via Westgate' is not any time soon.

 

[rg177]

Had 195015 on the 1506 Sheffield to Nottingham.

Was fine until we arrived at Nottingham and only the local door could be opened.

Nonetheless it is still on diagram.

 

[superkev]

Had 195015 on the 1506 Sheffield to Nottingham.

Was fine until we arrived at Nottingham and only the local door could be opened.

Nonetheless it is still on diagram.

With these new diagrams (how many now?) have anymore 195s been taken out of store. Also I've not heard of any deliveries for a while with around 10 2 car and 3 3 car still awaited I believe.
K

 

[Grumpy Git]

195,007 on the 1F93 Oxford Road Lime St seen at South Parkway at 09.50.

 

[palmersears]

The 0709 Piccadilly-Lime Street was a single 150 this morning vice a 195/1. That was fun. I remember reading this should eventually be 2×195/0s?

Also, the 1616 Liverpool - Airport has been a 195/0 so far this week, a marked reduction in capacity compared to the pair of 156s that it's replaced. Since the roll out of the 195s began I've also had single 195/1s, 195/0+195/1 combos and, just once, 2×195/1s (the other time they couldn't couple them properly at Lime Street and the entire service was cancelled). What is this working actually diagrammed to be as of next week?

 

[86247]

on Monday the 15.16 was a double 195/1 195107- 195111. I always thought this was the only double units to operate on the Manchester airport service, unless things have changed. Also the 09.16 was a single unit195007.

 

[86247]

sorry got my times mixed up should be the 10.16 with 195007 on it.

 

[js1000]

on Monday the 15.16 was a double 195/1 195107- 195111. I always thought this was the only double units to operate on the Manchester airport service, unless things have changed. Also the 09.16 was a single unit195007.

My understanding based off frequent trips on this service and Journeycheck is that the 6-coach services are supposed to be:

LIV-MIA
06:13 (to Wilmslow)
15:16
18:16

MIA-LIV
07:48 (from Wilmslow)
16:45
19:50

This is reflected in the diagrams posted on here but in reality they very rarely run like this. The situation should theoretically improve by next summer. The 195s are being 'spread thin' on many routes so the Pacers can be retired as well as being taken out of passenger service for staff training purposes. And not forgetting faults with the 195s which are frequently taking them out of service. I would add that this service would have been perfect for a purpose built 4 coach 195 or a combined 3+2 195 to form 5 coaches. 6 coaches is too big and 3 is too small - it's all betwixt and between.

 

[Jozhua]

Every 195 service I've seen rumble through Manchester has been full and standing.

Is this what happens when you order the bare minimum of rolling stock needed to replace the unpopular pacers, despite it questionably being a downgrade in capacity?

Yet to catch one of the new trains though, hopefully when I do it they'll be less busy!

 

[palmersears]

To attempt to answer my own question above, and Jozhua's, I think most of the Liverpool-Airport/Wilmslow services should eventually be 2×195/0s, but knowing Northern it'll end up being anything they can get their hands on, as I've anecdotally noted above.

The Barrow services are likely to end up at a single 195/1 I think?

 

[johntea]

195 sat on 17B at Leeds waiting to go to Lincoln Central this morning, took me by surprise a bit seeing one sat at that particular platform

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

To attempt to answer my own question above, and Jozhua's, I think most of the Liverpool-Airport/Wilmslow services should eventually be 2×195/0s, but knowing Northern it'll end up being anything they can get their hands on, as I've anecdotally noted above.

The Barrow services are likely to end up at a single 195/1 I think?

Is there one than for LIV/WML service ? Sorry misread

 

[Seehof]

Can anyone confirm, please, that the York - Blackpool service will be converted from 158 to 195 from the timetable change? Thank you

 

[Greybeard33]

My understanding based off frequent trips on this service and Journeycheck is that the 6-coach services are supposed to be:

LIV-MIA
06:13 (to Wilmslow)
15:16
18:16

MIA-LIV
07:48 (from Wilmslow)
16:45
19:50

This is reflected in the diagrams posted on here but in reality they very rarely run like this. The situation should theoretically improve by next summer. The 195s are being 'spread thin' on many routes so the Pacers can be retired as well as being taken out of passenger service for staff training purposes. And not forgetting faults with the 195s which are frequently taking them out of service. I would add that this service would have been perfect for a purpose built 4 coach 195 or a combined 3+2 195 to form 5 coaches. 6 coaches is too big and 3 is too small - it's all betwixt and between.

Are you sure that the 1950 from the Airport is currently booked as a 6-car? In the WTT it is booked to share an Airport platform with the 1953 to Cleethorpes, which would not be possible if it were longer than 4-car.

The platform bookings change in next week's timetable, such that the 0650, 1648, 1748, 1950 and 2047 from the Airport all get an entire platform and so could be 5-car or 6-car workings. In all the other hours the Liverpool trains are still booked to share a platform and so cannot be longer than 4-car.

 

[Bovverboy]

Are you sure that the 1950 from the Airport is currently booked as a 6-car? In the WTT it is booked to share an Airport platform with the 1953 to Cleethorpes, which would not be possible if it were longer than 4-car.

Is a 5-car train not allowed into a platform where there is already a 3-car standing? I'm sure there's never been a problem accommodating 2 x 319 in the same platform. Anyway, the situation with the 1950 is, it's been booked a 6-car for quite a while, but, of course, that doesn't mean that it will be one. When it is necessary to separate the 1950 from the Cleethorpes the routine appears to be to put the 1950 into P4, waiting for the 1929 Barrow to clear if necessary.

 

[wolfman]

Plenty of 195 action at Worksop trouble is they are all on train crew training.

 

[palmersears]

The platform bookings change in next week's timetable, such that the 0650, 1648, 1748, 1950 and 2047 from the Airport all get an entire platform and so could be 5-car or 6-car workings. In all the other hours the Liverpool trains are still booked to share a platform and so cannot be longer than 4-car.

The 0650 forms my morning commute to Lime Street, so I have my fingers crossed this may mean a five-car at last. I'm not overly hopeful though.

 

[Greybeard33]

Is a 5-car train not allowed into a platform where there is already a 3-car standing? I'm sure there's never been a problem accommodating 2 x 319 in the same platform. Anyway, the situation with the 1950 is, it's been booked a 6-car for quite a while, but, of course, that doesn't mean that it will be one. When it is necessary to separate the 1950 from the Cleethorpes the routine appears to be to put the 1950 into P4, waiting for the 1929 Barrow to clear if necessary.

See the LNW (North) Sectional Appendix, which can be downloaded from https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...ators/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/. A Local Instruction for Manchester Airport states:

Permissive working. All platforms will accommodate one train not exceeding eight vehicles or two trains not exceeding
four vehicles each. If a platform is occupied by more than four vehicles a second train must not be allowed to enter that
platform.
Dated: 14/06/15

(My bolding).
I do not know the reason why a 3-car + 5-car combination is not permitted.

 

[HSP 2]

With these new diagrams (how many now?) have anymore 195s been taken out of store. Also I've not heard of any deliveries for a while with around 10 2 car and 3 3 car still awaited I believe.
K

If I'm correct N Rail have just hidden two at Barrow 195 108 & 195 128, I don't think that they have worked in passenger service yet?

 

[superkev]

Strange with all the cancelled or short formed services Northern can have so many brand new trains in store. Prob around 20 if you include the 331s.
28 plus cancellations on the Calder Valley today.
K

 

[HSP 2]

Every 195 service I've seen rumble through Manchester has been full and standing.

Is this what happens when you order the bare minimum of rolling stock needed to replace the unpopular pacers, despite it questionably being a downgrade in capacity?

Yet to catch one of the new trains though, hopefully when I do it they'll be less busy!

Do the 195s have less capacity than the "unpopular pacers"? Or is it just more people are using the trains?

A lot of the problems around Manchester Pic. are due to the well known bottle neck between Pic. and the Ordsall Chord, Man. Vic is a very good station for east west traffic. Pic. is a good station for Manchester to the south traffic and suburban.
Bu when you put all of the northern, eastern and western traffic to Manchester airport onto the lines mention above you will have a very busy (overloaded) service.

More tracks in the centre of Manchester or a tunnel what is the answer?

 

[northernchris]

Do the 195s have less capacity than the "unpopular pacers"? Or is it just more people are using the trains?

A 3 car 195 has 204 seats, and a pacer has around 100-120 seats depending on the layout, so there's a slight reduction in seating capacity if the pacers are paired up. The 195s are much better at absorbing passenger loads though and I suspect can comfortably carry more standing passengers

 

[JonathanH]

Do the 195s have less capacity than the "unpopular pacers"? Or is it just more people are using the trains?

It's irrelevant how many seats a 195 has relative to a pacer or pair of pacers as they aren't directly replacing them. 195s are generally replacing 156s and 158s which in turn either replace 150s that can replace pacers or themselves directly replace pacers.

In some cases 195s do have less capacity than the 156s or 158s they replace - e.g. 2-car 195 replacing a 2-car 158 or a 3-car 195 replacing a pair of 156s.

 

[Bovverboy]

In some cases 195s do have less capacity than the 156s or 158s they replace - e.g. 2-car 195 replacing a 2-car 158 or a 3-car 195 replacing a pair of 156s.

Or a 2-car 195 replacing a pair of 156s?

 

[js1000]

A 3 car 195 has 204 seats, and a pacer has around 100-120 seats depending on the layout, so there's a slight reduction in seating capacity if the pacers are paired up. The 195s are much better at absorbing passenger loads though and I suspect can comfortably carry more standing passengers

The standing capacity on the 195/331 is impressive. Personally it's unrealistic to expect to have a seat on peak time services. And I can understand why Northern wanted to 2+2 seating to attract leisure/business travellers during the off peak and wide vestibules to double up as luggage storage areas. Must have had to wait at Piccadilly for a good minute and a half just for passengers to alight a service last Thursday. A Pacer, 150, 156, 319 etc would never to be able to accommodate as many passengers.

 

[Flying Claret]

Am I right I'm assuming 3 car 195's will replace 3 car 158's on the York-Blackpoo service soon? If so, would that be an increase or decrease in capacity..?