TrainTube
Member
- Joined
- 24 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 487
Its an advance for the 12:54 service.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Transpennine Express December 2019 Proposals
- Thread starter Paul Duck
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Greybeard33
Established Member
TPE did not manage to "fly under the radar" on the ITV Granada 6pm local news tonight. Both Northern and TPE got it in the neck, but they said TPE was worst, with 40% of services cancelled. They dragged Leo Goodwin on to the programme to mouth platitudes about "teething troubles". And reported that Andy Burnham is now calling for both ARN and FTPE to be stripped of their franchises.
Failed Unit
Established Member
They will get you to your next destination. However I will let someone such as @Starmill comment on the most likely alternative as he is from that area so much more familiar then myself.
86247
Member
Leo Goodwin has been saying late delivery of new trains, I thought all 397s, 802s, had been delivered. management always blame something or somebody for their failings.The problem is and always will be cancelling trains when they feel like it, with the same excuse lack of train crew. surely something will be done to say enough is enough.If they give Liverpool- Nottingham to TPE they need their heads seeing to.
I agree with 86247 - no responsible business blames its suppliers - Tesco doesn't blame its suppliers if it runs out of milk. The point is that the current franchise system doesn't penalise TOCs for misleading DfT that it can deliver what it promised. At a recent TPE Meet the Manager session in Huddersfield I heard Alstom, Network Rail, CAF, Hitachi and the man on the moon blamed for them not providing the service they promised. The point is that I and many others continue to suffer reductions in capacity and lateness on peak services across the Pennines. In a privatised railway this means they're not being incentivised to provide the service they promised. The solution? Not necessarily nationalise. It's to make them pay punitive sanctions and make them pay those sanctions to customers (including those who have PTE passes). Will it happen? Lobby your MP to see if they want to make it happen.
Andy Burnham - as of last week, probably even more an powerless irrelevance.
NoMorePacers
Established Member
If TPE are actually receiving some flak now then it's deserved and quite frankly long overdue. Here's hoping people actually acknowledge their poor quality service further.
TrainTube
Member
- Joined
- 24 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 487
I have to agree, the fact that their hourly Anglo Scot services are consistently late or cancelled is ridiculous. Another company owned by first delivering late services for customers.
Indeed. Very roughly TPE run around 350 trains per day and Northern run 2800.
Last Class 802 accepted last week. Still some Class 397s and MkVas to go!
Thankfully with Tesco, they have a range of farmers available to sell them milk. Just think about it - if a supplier messes up, what happens? Typically they'd lose the contract or get hit with a financial penalty, or both. You can be sure that the buyer would probably never use them again though. Unfortunately with rolling stock, whilst that theory still stands, it's a bit more long-term. It's not like TPE can call Stadler and ask for some new trains next month because CAF are running late.
I trust you were completely respectful to all of the managers? You didn't interrupt, or talk over, any of them whilst they were answering your questions? I only ask because nobody in the right mind would be able to blame Hitachi or Alstom unless you asked some kind of convoluted question like "why did my Mk5a not have any soap in the toilet this morning?"
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I'm not so sure.
Regional devolution means he'll end up with a large wad of cash from DfT to manage and invest in TfGM services within a couple of years.
Then it will be his fault when things go wrong.
Same with the other Metro Mayors.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
What "words of wisdom" has he had to offer into the debate on the current Sunday lack of service provision and what are his plans to remedy the matter?
TPE now getting equal billing with Northern in this BBC story...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50807987
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50807987
Rail commuters in the north of England have been hit by cancellations and delays as new winter timetables were launched.
Northern had cancelled 19 trains by 10:00 GMT and 31 were delayed, which it said was down to "operational issues" rather than the timetable change.
Transpennine Express also cancelled 29 services on Monday morning.
The issues largely affected commuters in Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Lancashire and Merseyside.
Transpennine Express services hit included those linking Manchester Airport with Edinburgh and Newcastle, and trains from Liverpool Lime Street to Scarborough.
The firm's managing director Leo Goodwin said he was "really sorry" for the disruption to customers at such a busy time of year.
He said: "Due to a number of issues with crew training caused by the late delivery of some of our new trains, along with a maintenance backlog and some infrastructure issues we have had to implement a temporary timetable, cancelling some journeys along one of our routes."
Northern services which were affected were between Blackpool North and Manchester Airport, from Leeds to York and Sheffield, and Darlington to Saltburn.
A spokesperson for the rail firm said: "Very few of our services have seen any changes as a result of the timetable coming in.
"The small number of delays and cancellations are due to operational issues including driver sickness, signalling failure and train faults."
Image copyrightKATIE MAY LEES
Image captionMany services were cancelled and delayed around the north of England
Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham said rail issues had "gone on far too long" and called for Northern to be stripped of its franchise.
"If the government is serious about supporting the north, then it needs to show it by acting this week to sort out our failing rail services," he said.
"As a first step, it should strip Northern of its franchise. That would send a clear signal to all rail operators - notably Transpennine Express - that we will not accept a second-class rail service for people in the North.
"If Transpennine Express fail to respond to that message, they should be next."
The National Rail timetable is changed in May and December each year.
In the west of England, passengers using Great Western Railway (GWR) services were also hit with cancellations and delays between Reading and London Paddington, due to a fault with the signalling system at Maidenhead.
A new, super-fast GWR service from Bristol to London, due to leave at 08:53 GMT, was among the cancellations.
Image captionTranspennine Express also cancelled 29 of its services on Monday morning
Northern had said the new timetable would see 50 new trains being introduced across its services.
In October, fewer than half of Northern rail services ran on time, the firm's figures showed.
Cancellations were also at their highest level since July and August.
- The operator had said the changes in its new winter timetable would focus on "reliability and stability" and add to the services each week.
Commuters shared train travel issues on social media on Monday, as the hashtag #northernfail was trending.
Keri Lewis Brown shared an image of a departures board which read a service to Blackpool North had been cancelled "due to a train stopping in the wrong position".
The excuses department at @northernassist has a new one #NorthernFail
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1206493805047959552
Ben Simmonds wrote on Facebook: "So Northern have gone ahead and cancelled the 7:53 from Sowerby Bridge to York in the new timetable (despite promising not to) which means the 7:58 to Leeds will now have triple the normal passenger count. Why in God's name would you cancel a peak commuter train?!?!"
Transpennine is running a pre-planned temporary reduced timetable on some routes as a maintenance backlog and infrastructure problems have delayed staff training on new trains.
Its managing director Mr Goodwin said as new trains were introduced improvements to services would be made.
Sophie Lichfield tweeted that commuting between Liverpool and Manchester was "near impossible" due to the cancellations and delays.
While another, Pippa Jackson, tweeted: "8.17 to Dewsbury cancelled. Having to wait nearly an hour for the next one. No lunch for me today then. Or I don't get home till 7pm. And I see my kids for an hour before they go to bed. Truly shambolic service @TPExpressTrains."
One passenger, posting on Twitter with the username leylandski, wrote: "Every day you get worse. Now you've cancelled both my train to and from work until Jan? Why? They were during peak time, this is totally unacceptable."
Anthony Smith, chief executive of watchdog Transport Focus, said: "Passengers don't care what causes the disruption - they just want things running again as soon as possible, and plenty of visible staff on hand to help them in the meantime.
"Train operators should ensure every eligible passenger knows how to claim compensation so that they get the money they are entitled to."
And yet Hull trains did get alternative stock in...
https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/news/2...-ahead-of-introduction-into-hull-trains-fleet
Hull Trains have somewhat fewer staff to train to be able to utilise alternative traction.
Killingworth
Established Member
There's much talk, understandably, about poor rail services in the north by both TPE and Northern, paticularly in the North West and in West Yorkshire. The city of Sheffield has the dubious distinction of having stations with some of the worst punctualty records in the country. Knock on delays from Manchester by TPE, EMR and Northern guarantee this.
A whole page article in todays's Sheffield Star highlighted the situation. At Meadowhall only 17% of trains were on time, and at Dore & Totley it was even worse at 13%. 7% of trains wre cancelled ar Meadowhall, Darnall and Woodhouse. Darnall and Woodhouse are Northern services only, but Dore and Meadowhall share TPE and Northern.
Those operating the trains and infrastructure are trying their best but the net result isn't good enough. My 6.53 TPE from Manchester Airport this morning left on time and was doing well (with 6 lightly loaded coaches - university vacations make a big difference) until we were stopped near Edale. The driver reported an obstruction (no further explanation) had been on the line, and the signalman had left his box to clear it, so 15 minutes late into Sheffield.
18% over 10 minutes late and 5% (1 in 20) cancelled, what a record! If we are ever to see rail taking a seriously bigger proportion of journeys the reliability needs to be improved, and improved A LOT! Little incidents like that above are unavoidable, but there are so many issues that are controllable.
Why woud I leave the car at home to gamble on trains? I rarely do.
A whole page article in todays's Sheffield Star highlighted the situation. At Meadowhall only 17% of trains were on time, and at Dore & Totley it was even worse at 13%. 7% of trains wre cancelled ar Meadowhall, Darnall and Woodhouse. Darnall and Woodhouse are Northern services only, but Dore and Meadowhall share TPE and Northern.
Those operating the trains and infrastructure are trying their best but the net result isn't good enough. My 6.53 TPE from Manchester Airport this morning left on time and was doing well (with 6 lightly loaded coaches - university vacations make a big difference) until we were stopped near Edale. The driver reported an obstruction (no further explanation) had been on the line, and the signalman had left his box to clear it, so 15 minutes late into Sheffield.
18% over 10 minutes late and 5% (1 in 20) cancelled, what a record! If we are ever to see rail taking a seriously bigger proportion of journeys the reliability needs to be improved, and improved A LOT! Little incidents like that above are unavoidable, but there are so many issues that are controllable.
Why woud I leave the car at home to gamble on trains? I rarely do.
And a key part is that the route was already fully cleared for HSTs as that’s what LNER used to operate on the Hull to Kings Cross services.
Okay now sort a training programme for TPEs drivers and guards. Plus we'll need to organise some depot space for them considering that the majority of depots in the North that might be able to cater for HSTs are full already. Then whilst you're taking drivers and guards out to learn HSTs that's all time that they'll be unable to learn the new trains that are going to be with the franchise long term.
It's easy to say but much harder to do in practice.
I resent the implication that I was rude in the conversation. In fact, I was not in the conversation. I just overheard what was going on near me on the platform, and I think the questioner was being perfectly reasonable.
Class 170101
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2014
- Messages
- 7,932
The better example would be Class 365s at Scotrail I'd suggest in respect of size.
It's clear that Transpennine don't have firstly enough staff to run the base timetable (as seen since May) or spare staff availability to do any training on any of the routes, so I take your point.
Where were the Hull HSTs maintained?
tbtc
Veteran Member
I think that a lot of things are now treated in the way that football fans treat their hobby - we are partisan in our politics, we are expecting the same about of exclusive access to "behind the scenes" conversations etc - some enthusiasts seem to feel entitled to know how many toys First have thrown out of the pram in their negotiations with organisations who haven't kept their side of the bargain.
I'm sure that the contracts permit for this kind of thing, there may well be penalties for failing to deliver, there my be incentives - as the decision to order three new types of train for the important bits of the franchise seemed to be because getting trains into service quickly was more important than a uniform fleet, I'd expect there to be some focus on that in the terms of the contracts, but I don't know - I don't need to know - I'm a humble passenger - I don't feel that anybody owes me an explanation to what is going on behind the scenes.
Coincidently, I was in a "local" branch of a supermarket on my way home tonight - they had no milk - I had to go elsewhere - maybe there'd just been a high volume of demand but maybe there was an issue with the supplier - maybe there'll be some kind of service credit/penalty in the contract - but it doesn't make any difference to me as a consumer - all that matters is that I didn't get what I wanted.
Rolling stock is complicated, rolling stock takes a long time (to tender for, design, build, test, train staff on etc), rolling stock needs to be compatible (whereas milk can be sourced fairly quickly and can come from a variety of sources) - my quibble isn't with how First decide to publicise their problems with new stock (let's face it, a part of First Group may be buying from the same manufacturers at some stage in the future so don't want to sour relationships with the manufacturer), it's more to do with the initial plan to get three types of train in the first place and rush everything (basing a new timetable around having sufficient new stock)
I completely agree.
The reason that this comes up all the time is that many, many, many people seek to make excuses for the firm for failure to deliver the service that has been paid for. They seek to frustrate the conversation by blaming other organisations, including Network Rail, ROSCOs, technical suppliers and contractors. In some cases Unions and Government also receive blame for the failure of particular train companies to deliver.
All of those things make for interesting discussions. There is nothing wrong with such discussions on forums such as this one. But you're right and J agree with you - what actually matters is a simple question of does th3 company deliver on what people paid for? If it doesn't it's unfortunately going to be them that are responsible.
This isn't particularly helpful as an analogy. One assumes that you don't have some kind of contract in place with this retailer of milk?
Different in expectations and in reality to booking a train ticket (online, usually) on particular premises including a timetable and often also a seat, and then turning up to find no service of that nature available to you.
Bristol with lengthy ECS moves to swap sets around once or twice per week.
Running a train ECS is very different to pax service. HSTs have not been verified at stations across this route in terms of signal sighting, stop position, customer step gap analysis, etc. It’s a bigger job than it might seem and would essentially be the same as taking on a brand new fleet. TPE had an opportunity to use the Mk3 coaches with a Class 68 and decided not to do so for a variety of reasons. This would have been a big enough task for small gain. A HST is unthinkable.
He didn't say that did he... I'm not sure why you're implying he did.
Also, I find it very convenient that you 'overheard' this conversation. And I'm nigh on certain that all those managers who were at Huddersfield did not blame all those you mention - especially Hitachi (delivered on time) and Alstom.
Unthinkable for TPE certainly. Plenty of other operators have brought in old emergency stock to reduce overcrowding.
So far today not a single TPE train has made it up the ECML. The 08:10 departure from Manchester Airport, arriving at Newcastle at 11:13, is currently the first non-cancelled TPE service on this route.
-
Edit: the cancellation of the 07:24 from Liverpool, due Newcastle at 10:21 and Edinburgh at 11:50 was reversed, so that's now the first of the day; still that's the first 6 of the day cancelled (if we include the service removed as part of the temporary timetable).
-
Edit: the cancellation of the 07:24 from Liverpool, due Newcastle at 10:21 and Edinburgh at 11:50 was reversed, so that's now the first of the day; still that's the first 6 of the day cancelled (if we include the service removed as part of the temporary timetable).
Last edited:
- Status