Landslip between Redhill and Tonbridge

[KingJ]

Yes, it really will not help. The overall local picture is dire, as you probably know - I have only seen waterlogged fields on the Kent/Sussex boundary on this scale once or twice before. Many of the local back roads yesterday were completely flooded and the main roads are struggling to cope as well. And now there are suggestions a railway embankment on the Up line north of Wivelsfield may be slipping, with trains under caution, causing big delays. The landslip near Guildford may worsen as well. Eridge is nearly underwater. Not heard anything much about the Arun Valley, surprisingly, but no doubt it may come.

As this seems to be the thead for Weather related disruption on the Brighton Main Line and branches, The line from Redhill to Tonbridge is now closed until at least Tuesday the 24th Friday the 27th of December due to what looks to be a landslip near Godstone. Network Rail and Southern have posted up some pictures and video of the slipped embankment and twisted track on Twitter here.

The first few trains of the day made it through OK, but it looks like the driver of 0750 Redhill to Tonbridge service spotted the issue and the line has been closed since then. A freight service from Dollands Moor to Daventry was sent on the line towards Redhill before the full scale of the damage was known, and subsequently 'rescued' by a light engine move and taken back towards Dollands Moor.

 

[tsr]

As this seems to be the thead for Weather related disruption on the Brighton Main Line and branches, the line from Redhill to Tonbridge is now closed until at least Tuesday the 24th Friday the 27th of December due to what looks to be a landslip near Godstone. Network Rail and Southern have posted up some pictures and video of the slipped embankment and twisted track on Twitter here.

The first few trains of the day made it through OK, but it looks like the driver of 0750 Redhill to Tonbridge service spotted the issue and the line has been closed since then. A freight service from Dollands Moor to Daventry was sent on the line towards Redhill before the full scale of the damage was known, and subsequently 'rescued' by a light engine move and taken back towards Dollands Moor.

The slip is very bad indeed (and still going) and the latest "worst-case scenario" is a closure considerably longer than just the 27th December. A river has burst its banks and undermined the whole embankment. A road needs to be built to site and the railway needs complete rebuilding. I am also not sure what resources will be available over the Christmas engineering work period, although can't confirm (in any way) how much this will affect progress.

In essence, this is Edenbridge's equivalent of the Dawlish sea wall disaster, just not as big and not as sentimental/newsworthy for people.

The good news is that the much-maligned May 2018 timetable keeps all services on this route as a shuttle between Redhill and Tonbridge, with no complications with portion working to/from London, and there are apparently also units available at the east end of the blockage to run an Edenbridge-Tonbridge shuttle service. Had this occurred pre-May 2018, there would have been quite a few problems with capacity between Redhill and London.

 

[KingJ]

The slip is very bad indeed (and still going) and the latest "worst-case scenario" is a closure considerably longer than just the 27th December. A river has burst its banks and undermined the whole embankment. A road needs to be built to site and the railway needs complete rebuilding. I am also not sure what resources will be available over the Christmas engineering work period, although can't confirm (in any way) how much this will affect progress.

In essence, this is Edenbridge's equivalent of the Dawlish sea wall disaster, just not as big and not as sentimental/newsworthy for people.

The good news is that the much-maligned May 2018 timetable keeps all services on this route as a shuttle between Redhill and Tonbridge, with no complications with portion working to/from London, and there are apparently also units available at the east end of the blockage to run an Edenbridge-Tonbridge shuttle service. Had this occurred pre-May 2018, there would have been quite a few problems with capacity between Redhill and London.

Ouch, that's quite a bit more severe than the early pictures indicated!

Although the line is lightly used, there's not much in the way of alternatives for passengers at stations along the route other than at Edenbridge. With replacement buses quite a bit slower than the equivalent train service, if an Edenbridge - Tonbridge shuttle can be run i'm sure that would be very much welcome.

 

[Deepgreen]

The slip is very bad indeed (and still going) and the latest "worst-case scenario" is a closure considerably longer than just the 27th December. A river has burst its banks and undermined the whole embankment. A road needs to be built to site and the railway needs complete rebuilding. I am also not sure what resources will be available over the Christmas engineering work period, although can't confirm (in any way) how much this will affect progress.

In essence, this is Edenbridge's equivalent of the Dawlish sea wall disaster, just not as big and not as sentimental/newsworthy for people.

The good news is that the much-maligned May 2018 timetable keeps all services on this route as a shuttle between Redhill and Tonbridge, with no complications with portion working to/from London, and there are apparently also units available at the east end of the blockage to run an Edenbridge-Tonbridge shuttle service. Had this occurred pre-May 2018, there would have been quite a few problems with capacity between Redhill and London.

I wandered down the lane to the River Mole near me this afternoon and it's a very wide and long lake! At least two local road bridges are under water and the water heads downstream to Dorking and Leatherhead, among other places.

 

[trainmania100]

Whilst I can see thread about SWR landslips nothing yet about the closure between Tonbridge and Redhill,

Track was left suspended hanging in the air today, after a mud slide from beneath the track meant all services along the line were cancelled.

Is expected that the line will be closed for several weeks.

Please find attached, a picture of the damage.

The problem probably happened due to the large amounts of rainfall we've had recently.

Stock move from lovers walk to Tonbridge tomorrow if anyone's interested in these sorts of rare moves. I don't think SN 377s go to Tunbridge Wells much?
https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train?c=73956&d=23/12/2019
This is to supplement the VSTP Tonbridge to Eden bridge services, because probably a 377 got stranded in the Redhill area so can't go to Tonbridge for the Eden bridge to Tonbridge trains tomorrow

 

[swt_passenger]

It has been mentioned, but you possibly wouldn’t have found it in the thread about the Croydon area signalling and power problems...

The type of damage is reminiscent of the embankment failure on the Fareham to Botley line a few years ago. That took quite a few weeks to fix, by the time they’d got back to solid ground and thoroughly rebuilt it.

 

[infobleep]

The slip is very bad indeed (and still going) and the latest "worst-case scenario" is a closure considerably longer than just the 27th December. A river has burst its banks and undermined the whole embankment. A road needs to be built to site and the railway needs complete rebuilding. I am also not sure what resources will be available over the Christmas engineering work period, although can't confirm (in any way) how much this will affect progress.

In essence, this is Edenbridge's equivalent of the Dawlish sea wall disaster, just not as big and not as sentimental/newsworthy for people.

The good news is that the much-maligned May 2018 timetable keeps all services on this route as a shuttle between Redhill and Tonbridge, with no complications with portion working to/from London, and there are apparently also units available at the east end of the blockage to run an Edenbridge-Tonbridge shuttle service. Had this occurred pre-May 2018, there would have been quite a few problems with capacity between Redhill and London.

Are the people who would build the road the same as the people who'd be working on the engineering works? If not maybe they can spend the time building the road whilst others do the Christmas engineering works.

Of course I'm assuming there are people wanting to work over Christmas who currently aren't. That's a big assumption.

 

[al78]

If it is any consolation, it looks like the worst of the rain is over, and things are looking much drier over the next week or so, which should give river levels a chance to recede.

 

[Minstral25]

Disappointing is that from Redhill to Godstone there will be no train service but they are making long stock moves to get a train for the Edenbridge to Tonbridge section.
Made worse by the bus stop at Nutfield being a 20 plus minute walk from the station directly around which most of the commuters live. Parking is scarce by the bus stop too.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Ouch, that's quite a bit more severe than the early pictures indicated!

Although the line is lightly used, there's not much in the way of alternatives for passengers at stations along the route other than at Edenbridge. With replacement buses quite a bit slower than the equivalent train service, if an Edenbridge - Tonbridge shuttle can be run i'm sure that would be very much welcome.

I've heard they're looking at a two-month closure

 

[Horizon22]

Disappointing is that from Redhill to Godstone there will be no train service but they are making long stock moves to get a train for the Edenbridge to Tonbridge section.
Made worse by the bus stop at Nutfield being a 20 plus minute walk from the station directly around which most of the commuters live. Parking is scarce by the bus stop too.

I don't think there's capacity on the Redhill side of Godstone for a shuttle & reversing move due to the location of the landslip?

 

[Minstral25]

I don't think there's capacity on the Redhill side of Godstone for a shuttle & reversing move due to the location of the landslip?

I am sure there is a signalling process that allows one train in possession to use the line like a long headshunt surely. There is a crossover just along from Redhill that could be used to swap lines at the Redhill end. Just needs a bit of willing organisation especially as this looks like it could be weeks, even months before there is a fix.

 

[Horizon22]

I am sure there is a signalling process that allows one train in possession to use the line like a long headshunt surely. There is a crossover just along from Redhill that could be used to swap lines at the Redhill end. Just needs a bit of willing organisation especially as this looks like it could be weeks, even months before there is a fix.

Indeed it could be weeks or months. However, this being the Christmas period with lots of amended timetables already, significantly decreased passenger flows and track teams already stretched to the limit, this will be an acceptable compromise.

I'm sure over the quieter period an assessment will be made and if it is likely to be prolonged for months, then new contingency signalling arrangements can be made if allowed. It's still early days and they'll need to get a geoechnical team out to fully assess it first.

 

[Class 466]

377314 is marooned at Tonbridge and is working the hourly Tonbridge - Edenbridge shuttle today.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Not sure why they are sending a unit from lovers walk because usually the Tonbridge - Redhill is worked by 3-car off Selhurst. I would also suggest it would have been just as easy to use a SE 375/377 as the Redhill-Tonbridge work is split between SE Tonbridge and GTR Redhill crews.

Longer term this will prove operationally difficult for Purley Aggregate Terminal and Tonbridge West Yard.

 

[KingJ]

Disappointing is that from Redhill to Godstone there will be no train service but they are making long stock moves to get a train for the Edenbridge to Tonbridge section.
Made worse by the bus stop at Nutfield being a 20 plus minute walk from the station directly around which most of the commuters live. Parking is scarce by the bus stop too.

Access is quite tight at Nutfield station which makes running a bus there difficult I can imagine. However, good news - an additional minibus is now acting as a shuttle between Redhill and Nutfield directly;

Buses will operate every hour between Redhill, Nutfield (Memorial Hall), Godstone and Edenbridge in both directions. If you require Nutfield station, a separate mini bus service is running from Redhill. If you're travelling from Edenbridge and require Nutfield station, please travel to Redhill and change there for the mini bus service.

 

[Horizon22]

Not sure why they are sending a unit from lovers walk because usually the Tonbridge - Redhill is worked by 3-car off Selhurst. I would also suggest it would have been just as easy to use a SE 375/377 as the Redhill-Tonbridge work is split between SE Tonbridge and GTR Redhill crews.

Longer term this will prove operationally difficult for Purley Aggregate Terminal and Tonbridge West Yard.

Indeed they could have run up to London Bridge onto the Kent side if needed (with adequate route knowledge)

 

[Deepgreen]

If there's already a Southern unit 'marooned' (not in the true sense of the word) in the Tonbridge section, why send a replacement - or is it planned to run two trains in service on the section? A little ironic, as SE have been doing months of route learning trips to Tonbridge via Redhill with 375s!

 

[Minstral25]

Access is quite tight at Nutfield station which makes running a bus there difficult I can imagine. However, good news - an additional minibus is now acting as a shuttle between Redhill and Nutfield directly;

Was just about to post: Leaving Nutfield at xx:28 and Redhill at xx:00 - good work by Southern

 

[Southern Dvr]

“landslip site between Godstone and Edenbridge is still deteriorating. There is cable damage which is also causing some complications with signalling arrangements at Edenbridge.
Nevertheless, Network Rail intend to have sufficient infrastructure available from start of service to run a shuttle train service between Edenbridge and Tonbridge.
At the Edenbridge end, trains will be required to shunt at Edenbridge Ground Frame, except if this fails to work, in which case Single Line Working may perhaps be used.
Buses will run between Redhill and Tonbridge to connect with the trains. Hourly services will run, with buses and trains connecting wherever possible”

re 377314 it may be that it’s short on miles before next exam and needs extracting.

 

[Class 466]

Not sure why they are sending a unit from lovers walk because usually the Tonbridge - Redhill is worked by 3-car off Selhurst. I would also suggest it would have been just as easy to use a SE 375/377 as the Redhill-Tonbridge work is split between SE Tonbridge and GTR Redhill crews.

Longer term this will prove operationally difficult for Purley Aggregate Terminal and Tonbridge West Yard.

5Y06 from Lovers Walk has since been cancelled along with 5Y23 from Tonbridge to Selhurst.

 

[Deepgreen]

Was just about to post: Leaving Nutfield at xx:28 and Redhill at xx:00 - good work by Southern

The NRE information makes no mention of the mini-bus and still says the bus will only take you to just over a mile from the station, on the A25. Too soon?

 

[Class 466]

If there's already a Southern unit 'marooned' (not in the true sense of the word) in the Tonbridge section, why send a replacement - or is it planned to run two trains in service on the section? A little ironic, as SE have been doing months of route learning trips to Tonbridge via Redhill with 375s!

Given the extensive timescale of the work required, they’ll want to be cycling units for maintenance. In a logical world Southeastern would lend a 375 per day to the route, however there certainly aren’t any sitting around idle.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Given the extensive timescale of the work required, they’ll want to be cycling units for maintenance. In a logical world Southeastern would lend a 375 per day to the route, however there certainly aren’t any sitting around idle.

If they use one of the 377/5 units then it’s ‘know’ by both the SET and GTR crews that work the route. Of course the unit that usually does the SET route refresh trip is now available.

 

[Class 466]

If they use one of the 377/5 units then it’s ‘know’ by both the SET and GTR crews that work the route. Of course the unit that usually does the SET route refresh trip is now available.

Thats part of a peak Cannon St diagram so would only be of use during the off peak.

 

[Surreytraveller]

If they use one of the 377/5 units then it’s ‘know’ by both the SET and GTR crews that work the route. Of course the unit that usually does the SET route refresh trip is now available.

A 375 has to have a conductor. GTR drivers wouldn't know what to do with a conductor.
And surely SouthEastern need their trains for their own services anyway?

 

[KingJ]

Disruption advice has now been updated to say that the closure will be "until further notice". As many have mentioned here, it's becoming clear that this won't be a quick fix.

High resolution pictures taken on the 22nd have been uploaded here.

 

[Class 466]

A 375 has to have a conductor. GTR drivers wouldn't know what to do with a conductor.
And surely SouthEastern need their trains for their own services anyway?

The entire shuttle service is being covered by Southeastern Guards/Drivers using a southern unit.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The entire shuttle service is being covered by Southeastern Guards/Drivers using a southern unit.

Yes, I know. I was responding to someone else's comment regarding using 375s

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Not sure why they are sending a unit from lovers walk because usually the Tonbridge - Redhill is worked by 3-car off Selhurst. I would also suggest it would have been just as easy to use a SE 375/377 as the Redhill-Tonbridge work is split between SE Tonbridge and GTR Redhill crews.

Longer term this will prove operationally difficult for Purley Aggregate Terminal and Tonbridge West Yard.

I think Purley Aggregates terminal gets its stone from the west country via Acton Yard but I guess that the 2-3 times a week sand train from Cliffe would route via Tonbridge-Redhill normally. There might be alternatives for this traffic via South London though.

Almost two decades ago I commuted fairly frequently to and from Tunbridge Wells on this route when something similar happened - a cutting slip, I seem to recall. After a couple of days of complete closure services were resumed, with single line working and pilotmen (would that be pilotpersons these days?) which carried on for quite some weeks or months afterwards. But the damage looks too severe for even that solution.