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SWR Longest Strike - December 2019

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Glenn1969

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RTT shows the 2240 as terminating at Woking with no mention of a service to Worplesdon and Guildford. I hope any stranded passengers manage to get home
 
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DelW

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A fire at Portsmouth is of course the companies fault.
There was no mention of any cause at Waterloo. Or any other useful information.

Since SWR is only running a fraction of the proper timetable, I'd have thought they might have stock available to cover for delays at the country end. And if the guards weren't on strike there would be other trains running.

It's not just today, every journey for weeks has been delayed, diverted, cancelled or otherwise disrupted. I don't care whose fault it is, I just want the service I pay good money for to be delivered. SWR seem to be unable to deliver the promised timetable, refurbishments, or anything else that they promised. People thought SWT were poor, they were paragons by comparison.
 

DelW

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RTT shows the 2240 as terminating at Woking with no mention of a service to Worplesdon and Guildford. I hope any stranded passengers manage to get home
Well we've got to Guildford, and initially no southbound train shown, every destination south shown as "please enquire".
However there's now a Portsmouth train shown at 23:48, so I may get home eventually.
 

Carlisle

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A thread on Twitter was recently shared by an ex CEO type person of SSWT, basically the business case wasn’t there to try and introduce DOO because the TOC had to take the risk, currently the DfT take the risk under FMTR, hence why they’re pushing for DOO. They went on to say they believe DOO is perfectly safe but OBS method is preferable for passengers.

Personally I believe at least one thread per TOC should be open to allow discussion of DOO and the pros and cons. There’s a few on here such as @Carlisle and @Robertj21a that I don’t agree with but wouldn’t dream of being nasty towards just because we have a difference of opinion. I’m well aware that I’m not going to convince them otherwise, and that they’re not going to turn my opinion, but there still needs to be a channel for people to vent.
Thanks, the feelings mutual from me too .
 

387star

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More cr*p from SWR tonight. Last down train on Portsmouth Direct was supposed to be 22:30, the later ones having been cancelled due to Guard's strike. Now the 22:30 has been cancelled too, so Pompey pax told to join 22:40 stopping train to Guildford, where there "should" be a train "or bus" to take passengers onwards. (Quotes are from SWR staff at Waterloo.) The 22:40 is 8 car 455 which is full and standing from CLJ.
I have not much faith that there will be anything at Guildford, and even if there is, I'll be very late home.
How much longer can this abysmal company continue failing its passengers this way and still not be penalised?
the southern service to portsmouth via hove was packed
funny how only a few years ago southern would have been the company to avoid

some passengers are foul mouthed when it comes to rail staff booze or no booze. One lady said if this wasn't her train she'd slit the drivers throat and another said they'd sit on the drivers lap if they had to.
 

Goldfish62

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More cr*p from SWR tonight. Last down train on Portsmouth Direct was supposed to be 22:30, the later ones having been cancelled due to Guard's strike. Now the 22:30 has been cancelled too, so Pompey pax told to join 22:40 stopping train to Guildford, where there "should" be a train "or bus" to take passengers onwards. (Quotes are from SWR staff at Waterloo.) The 22:40 is 8 car 455 which is full and standing from CLJ.
I have not much faith that there will be anything at Guildford, and even if there is, I'll be very late home.
How much longer can this abysmal company continue failing its passengers this way and still not be penalised?
A very worrying trend with SWR is that last trains no longer seem to be sacrosanct. Recently, pre-strike, the last down Reading at 2350 from Waterloo was started from Staines. This left passengers between Waterloo and Feltham stranded. Yes, the national conditions of carriage require the railway to get you home in such circumstances but there wouldn't have been any staff around to arrange any taxis, so it would have been a long wait until the 0505 from Waterloo.
 

pompeyfan

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Agreed that it’s scary last trains aren’t running, there’s been several occasions where the default answer is to ‘use the help point to arrange a taxi’ of which the help point rings and rings before eventually getting diverted to a general NRE call centre in India who can’t help.

to be fair the last couple of days have been really challenging, several code red CSL2 have been activated, none of which SWRs fault and most not really Network Rails fault. I understand the argument that you pay lots of money so you want a reliable service but sometimes you physically can’t move trains.

last night however, it’s naughty the last one didn’t run all the way through. Only 2 circumstances should have prevented it, lack of goodwill/hours for the crew or that the down service would interfere with a critical overnight possession
 

HamworthyGoods

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A very worrying trend with SWR is that last trains no longer seem to be sacrosanct. Recently, pre-strike, the last down Reading at 2350 from Waterloo was started from Staines. This left passengers between Waterloo and Feltham stranded. Yes, the national conditions of carriage require the railway to get you home in such circumstances but there wouldn't have been any staff around to arrange any taxis, so it would have been a long wait until the 0505 from Waterloo.

There is no obligation to run any services in a strike, in some cases there is no service provided at all. They are however obliged to refund your ticket if there is no service advised before your journey starts.

Whilst previously last trains have been maintained that I understand wasn’t possible with the length of this strike. In many rail strikes of years gone by across the network services have only been provided between 0700 and 1900 for example.
 
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HamworthyGoods

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last night however, it’s naughty the last one didn’t run all the way through. Only 2 circumstances should have prevented it, lack of goodwill/hours for the crew or that the down service would interfere with a critical overnight possession

The 22.30 Waterloo - Pompey started at Woking connecting out the 22.40 Waterloo - Woking at Woking.
 

DelW

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My faith in SWR is so low that I fully expected to arrive at Guildford to find the station closed and no information, and indeed when we arrived off the 22:40 stopper, the only departures shown were to Reading, Gatwick and Woking. However, after about 5 minutes the Portsmouth connection was shown on P2, and ran as a 12-450, about 40 minutes late (Vs 22:30 timings).
So not great, but better than I'd feared.
 

DelW

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The 22.30 Waterloo - Pompey started at Woking connecting out the 22.40 Waterloo - Woking at Woking.
Only a minor point, but the 22:40 was extended to Guildford and the connection was made there. The Portsmouth train arrived empty at Guildford.
 

Goldfish62

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There is no obligation to run any services in a strike, in some cases there is no service provided at all. They are however obliged to refund your ticket if there is no service advised before your journey starts.

Whilst previously last trains have been maintained that I understand wasn’t possible with the length of this strike. In many rail strikes of years gone by across the network services have only been provided between 0700 and 1900 for example.
My second sentence pointed out that this was pre-strike. :)
 

bb21

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Agreed that it’s scary last trains aren’t running, there’s been several occasions where the default answer is to ‘use the help point to arrange a taxi’ of which the help point rings and rings before eventually getting diverted to a general NRE call centre in India who can’t help.
If help point calls aren't answered, keep trying. Sometimes if control are otherwise occupied, they can't always answer things straight away, but they should do in due course.

AIUI cancellation of last service will always see taxis arranged, but passengers need to make themselves known if at an unstaffed station via help points.
 

Helvellyn

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How do striking SWR Guards feel about returning to work after this dispute? They will have to face Guards who have worked through (never in RMT or have quit) who have had to deal with disgruntled passengers; other passenger facing staff will have been in the same boat. Then there will be the passengers themselves. Must be some nervousness I would have thought? And morale must surely be through the floor.

I personally disagree with the strike but equally these are human beings and mentally it must be taking a toll just as it is for passengers.
 

pompeyfan

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How do striking SWR Guards feel about returning to work after this dispute? They will have to face Guards who have worked through (never in RMT or have quit) who have had to deal with disgruntled passengers; other passenger facing staff will have been in the same boat. Then there will be the passengers themselves. Must be some nervousness I would have thought? And morale must surely be through the floor.

I personally disagree with the strike but equally these are human beings and mentally it must be taking a toll just as it is for passengers.

I think you’re over thinking it, the ones who were on strike will be the ones holding grudges against their colleagues who chose to come in, not the other way round.
 

Goldfish62

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I think you’re over thinking it, the ones who were on strike will be the ones holding grudges against their colleagues who chose to come in, not the other way round.
I think there will be grudges all round. Guard on guard, passengers on guard, guard on management, guard on RMT.
 

pompeyfan

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I think there will be grudges all round. Guard on guard, passengers on guard, guard on management, guard on RMT.

yeah I think you’ve pretty much summed it up, I also get the impression there’s some hard feelings between drivers and guards too. Some drivers dislike the guards who crossed the picket, but some RMT guards are disappointed in those drivers who didn’t. No wonder morale is through the floor.
 

Carlisle

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Nothing unusual of a bully. A lot of ‘passionate’ Union types are nothing more than bullies.
Evidence throughout history does seem to suggest there’s at least some substance to that line of thinking
 
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Goldfish62

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yeah I think you’ve pretty much summed it up, I also get the impression there’s some hard feelings between drivers and guards too. Some drivers dislike the guards who crossed the picket, but some RMT guards are disappointed in those drivers who didn’t. No wonder morale is through the floor.
I'm told that Hopwood is much better at building bridges than Mellors. He'll need to be!
 

Carlisle

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I'm told that Hopwood is much better at building bridges than Mellors. He'll need to be!
It’ll require more effort than he displayed in trying to solve the GWR dispute if SWR ultimately want to secure anything at all meaningful after all these strikes
 
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theironroad

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Well if you believe the letter leaked online somewhere from a guard who is working , apparently they feel under appreciated and unsupported by management.
 

theironroad

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yeah I think you’ve pretty much summed it up, I also get the impression there’s some hard feelings between drivers and guards too. Some drivers dislike the guards who crossed the picket, but some RMT guards are disappointed in those drivers who didn’t. No wonder morale is through the floor.

While some drivers don't want DOO and would love to see an end to this dispute, it's fair to say that many drivers are aware of pay at other companies and the fact that, when commission Is taken into consideration, a fair few commercial guards are earning almost as much as drivers , with commercial guards starting at just over £40k

A snippet of a conversation I happened to overhear at Waterloo last week between two Fratton guards who were working would suggest that there would be appear to be some guards who despise drivers and platform staff as well.
 

Carlisle

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Well if you believe the letter leaked online somewhere from a guard who is working , apparently they feel under appreciated and unsupported by management.
Not particularly surprising if true, Ive always accepted most of today’s rail industrial relations problems originate from the short termisim of franchising alongside some poor management throughout, or in some instances prior to, that period, rather than primarily with unions
 
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FenMan

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Not particularly surprising if true, Ive always accepted most of today’s rail industrial relations problems originate from the short termisim of franchising & poor management generally rather than unions .

It would also be helpful if the RMT's Constitution didn't include this:-
(b) to work for the supersession of the capitalist system by a socialistic order of society
 

theironroad

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It would also be helpful if the RMT's Constitution didn't include this:-

Tbh, these articles should be removed from both and RMT and aslef constitutions, as on a day to day basis , no one in either unions management or membership seems to be practically advancing for this.

Many of us do want a more equal society with far less gaping inequalities between the richest and poorest, but it's not going to be realised by clauses like this even before GE2019
 

Goldfish62

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Not particularly surprising if true, Ive always accepted most of today’s rail industrial relations problems originate from the short termisim of franchising alongside some poor management throughout, or in some instances prior to, that period, rather than primarily with unions
Exactly. The railway's industrial relations seem to be in a 1970s timewarp, characterised by militant unions (singular in this case) and very poor management. It takes two to tango, as they say.
 

dctraindriver

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While some drivers don't want DOO and would love to see an end to this dispute, it's fair to say that many drivers are aware of pay at other companies and the fact that, when commission Is taken into consideration, a fair few commercial guards are earning almost as much as drivers , with commercial guards starting at just over £40k

A snippet of a conversation I happened to overhear at Waterloo last week between two Fratton guards who were working would suggest that there would be appear to be some guards who despise drivers and platform staff as well.
Or maybe some guards despise SOME drivers and SOME platform staff. Drivers/guards pretty supportive of each other at my depot.
 

Journeyman

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Or maybe some guards despise SOME drivers and SOME platform staff. Drivers/guards pretty supportive of each other at my depot.

It's a long-running joke in the industry that there's considerable ill-feeling between guards and drivers, though, and there's a fair amount of truth in that. In recent DOO disputes, the RMT are very angry about ASLEF drivers taking the money rather than walking out too.
 

Journeyman

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Pleased you did, not at all helpful

Yeah, apologies for that. It was an attempt to humorously illustrate a point but there's a time and a place for it.

I appreciate feelings are running very high at the moment on just about every side.

Whatever happens, I hope it gets resolved soon.
 
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