Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[cnjb8]

Anyone know what's going on with the StreetAir's? There hasn't been a single one in service for nearly a month now.

I believe they were withdrawn.

 

[overthewater]

The 63 is subsidised by about £250k per year, one of the biggest subsidies in Edinburgh (although it works out quite low as subsidy per passenger). That's not to say it wouldn't be profitable without the council subsidy as I doubt many bus companies would turn their noses up at £250k per year and admit council funding isn't necessary for route survival.
Of course I don't know for sure but I suspect the number of profitable routes on Lothian's network is quite small compared to the loss-makers. My rough guess would be that only routes running every 10-12 minutes through the day turn a profit, while the others are net losers. With so many season ticket passengers it's probably difficult for the company themselves to know exactly what routes make a profit as such, and how many passengers would drift away if the company didn't maintain a comprehensive network.

63 is interesting, it used to be paid for By GYLE for 15 years as a part of the extension built back around 2000. Edinburgh City council has taken over paying for it since then. Saturdays were also good day for the 63 as ALOT of people used it for the very cheap day tickets but well.... X38 gives you that now. I doubt the 63 numbers will hold up.

Its not like most of the other routes around Edinburgh the council paid for, IE it has passengers, the only other busy council bus is the 68 ...

I’m surprised they haven’t extended the No63 to Currie or beyond.

That was in the plans but it never happened

 

[ScotRail158725]

I believe they were withdrawn.

where will they go now? scrap? cant say ill miss them. terrible buses i’d rather a 55 plate B7 anyday

 

[NorthClyde320]

63 is interesting, it used to be paid for By GYLE for 15 years as a part of the extension built back around 2000. Edinburgh City council has taken over paying for it since then. Saturdays were also good day for the 63 as ALOT of people used it for the very cheap day tickets but well.... X38 gives you that now. I doubt the 63 numbers will hold up.

Its not like most of the other routes around Edinburgh the council paid for, IE it has passengers, the only other busy council bus is the 68 ...



That was in the plans but it never happened

Could the 63 be reduced to hourly Mon-Fri to match the weekend freq? Surely it would also make sence to retender it to Lothian Country (it that is possible) as most of the route operates in the City West area.

 

[NorthClyde320]

where will they go now? scrap? cant say ill miss them. terrible buses i’d rather a 55 plate B7 anyday

Seems like a terrible (and expensive) waste of money, far to small capacity for a City like Edinburgh imo.

 

[OmniCity999]

where will they go now? scrap? cant say ill miss them. terrible buses i’d rather a 55 plate B7 anyday

A small Cummins or Volvo lump possibly.

 

[overthewater]

Could the 63 be reduced to hourly Mon-Fri to match the weekend freq? Surely it would also make sence to retender it to Lothian Country (it that is possible) as most of the route operates in the City West area.

The council WILL NOT allow higher fares. Why do you want a cut?

 

[NorthClyde320]

The council WILL NOT allow higher fares. Why do you want a cut?

I didn't say I wanted a cut I said COULD it be cut, IF the X38 is affecting numbers on the 63. As you said "I doubt the 63 numbers will hold up".

 

[Siemens Trains]

Could the 63 be reduced to hourly Mon-Fri to match the weekend freq? Surely it would also make sence to retender it to Lothian Country (it that is possible) as most of the route operates in the City West area.

In my view it is possible to cut the Mon-Fri frequency to hourly because my understanding is the tender was originally agreed on the basis of an hourly service along the whole Queensferry to Riccarton route. But for much of the day Lothian would need to use 3 vehicles for hourly schedule adherence anyway, so they choose to run every 40 minutes on the agreed route in the hope that this generates extra demand and revenue.
I don't think it is possible to absorb the service into Lothian Country. Partly because they didn't get the contract in the first place but also as a matter of policy the fares on Edinburgh's tendered routes (ie where CEC made the award) need to align with fares on the major operator, Lothian Buses.
Obviously both of these are easily changed, although it might need agreement from elected councillors.
Furthermore (and I know E&M Horsburgh did it, but...) I don't wouldn't think it makes sense for Lothian to run the 63 from Livingston.

 

[tbtc]

Which is the busier side of the 63? Herriot Watt or South Queensferry?

i.e. would there be any benefit in reducing one side to hourly and using the resources to make the other side half hourly?

 

[Auld reekie]

63 is interesting, it used to be paid for By GYLE for 15 years as a part of the extension built back around 2000. Edinburgh City council has taken over paying for it since then. Saturdays were also good day for the 63 as ALOT of people used it for the very cheap day tickets but well.... X38 gives you that now. I doubt the 63 numbers will hold up.

Its not like most of the other routes around Edinburgh the council paid for, IE it has passengers, the only other busy council bus is the 68 ...



That was in the plans but it never happened

I emailed a councillor about this earlier in the year and was told it was going to happen later in the year. Only 11 days to go.
Ha! Bloody Ha!

 

[A330Alex]

Which is the busier side of the 63? Herriot Watt or South Queensferry?

i.e. would there be any benefit in reducing one side to hourly and using the resources to make the other side half hourly?

I used to use the 63 fairly often (Riccarton-Gyle/Ed Park) and the busiest section I saw was from the areas north of the Gyle coming to/from the Gyle. There would often be a queue when the bus got to the Gyle (northbound) and plenty getting off when arriving (southbound).

It tended to be fairly quiet on the Riccarton leg. Usually people heading to Hermiston Gait/Gyle for shopping/work and some others like me jumping on to the tram. Not helped by the last few journeys part-routing to Longstone.

 

[OmniCity999]

I think the best solution for the 63 is merging it with the 20 and giving Ratho a city service again. But it comes down the the tendering agreement. Lothian wont run the service commercially if they know they can have it funded. The council will only fund the route they need so we're stuck with what we have. Ofcourse it doesnt stop them registering a second service 63 that runs from the Gyle to Chesser and curtailing the current one to the Gyle, then running it as one service.

Its then the issue of creating a viable service for the residents of Ratho.

I suppose another option is to run the 63 from Queensferry, Kirkliston, Newbridge, Ratho, along the back road to RBS, along that other road to Hermiston Park and Ride (change for Uni), then Westside Plaza and onto the normal 20 route to Chesser. Customers from Queensferry could change at RBS for the Gyle.

If you havent guessed already, I'm not 100% familiar with that part of the City, but I know those connections do exist.

 

[Baileygirl]

I don't see how the X38 is taking passengers from the 63. it is a different route and has cheaper fares. The one I observed last week was rather full between Kirkliston and Newbridge with the X38 behind empty

 

[ScotRail158725]

Anyone know how 20942 is coming along?

 

[etetetetet]

I use the 63 to get from Park to Riccarton nearly every day (and sometimes Riccarton - Gyle if i need something from there) and the bus at peak times can get quite busy, but in my experience almost all the passengers get off at Sighthill College, maybe a few then stick about for Riccarton. Dead at any other time though save for an occasional pensioner.

I think extending it down to Balerno would be good since once it gets past Sighthill it really isn't used heavily (and besides, chances are all the students who change off a 63 to get to HWU have ridacards anyway so changing won't be a hassle.) I could see a use for a service to Balerno though.

 

[Auld reekie]

I use the 63 to get from Park to Riccarton nearly every day (and sometimes Riccarton - Gyle if i need something from there) and the bus at peak times can get quite busy, but in my experience almost all the passengers get off at Sighthill College, maybe a few then stick about for Riccarton. Dead at any other time though save for an occasional pensioner.

I think extending it down to Balerno would be good since once it gets past Sighthill it really isn't used heavily (and besides, chances are all the students who change off a 63 to get to HWU have ridacards anyway so changing won't be a hassle.) I could see a use for a service to Balerno though.

In my opinion extending it to Balerno would make sense as it would give people the opportunity in these areas to visit the Gyle and Hermiston Gate. At the moment it takes 2 buses.

 

[Siemens Trains]

In my opinion extending it to Balerno would make sense as it would give people the opportunity in these areas to visit the Gyle and Hermiston Gate. At the moment it takes 2 buses.

Unfortunately true demand for this type of bus link has always been very low. Demand from local campaigners and councillors has been high for as long as I can remember, but extending an hourly bus to Balerno just seems a waste of resource. I have no real idea of the extra cost for a round trip of about half an hour to 45 minutes, but I'd hazard a guess at about £100k per year before considering revenue.
The Balerno-> HWU-> P&R-> H Gait-> E Park-> Gyle doesn't serve much of a social need other than offering a connection to St John's Hospital. The high frequency 44 bus will take Balerno folk to many similar facilites, or they can change to the 34, 35, 400 or even the 20 to reach the Gyle area if really necessary. Nearly everyone employed around Edinburgh Park and living in Balerno will have easy access to a car and could use (for example) Hermiston Park & Ride to avoid any parking restrictions at their workplace.

 

[overthewater]

They had a bus paid for aswell by M&S No70? but once the funding contract ended so did the bus, as council just didn't see the need.

I've always wondered if it would be possible to operate a 30mins service but as someone highlighted going down Gogar Station road?

One bus every hour operates as normal route but stop at Herimston Park n ride.
One bus every hour operates as normal route to RBS then operates Direct to Herimston Park n ride via Gogar Station road?

Both will operate a circular. With only am and PM buses going into Uni campus.

 

[oldman]

It was the 70, which ran until 2016, but by then it was just a round trip a couple of times a week. The Council paid for it for the last few years.

 

[Ricky Kane]

133 (SN55 BJO) - Brookfield Metal Recycling, Linlithgow.
Finaly bites the dust from yesterday these are not my photos but thought to share

 

[Ricky Kane]

dose any one know why the 04 plate Lothian country singles are sitting down at marine for the last week and the trackers are know disabled

 

[Weemidi135]

dose any one know why the 04 plate Lothian country singles are sitting down at marine for the last week and the trackers are know disabled

Because there going to be sold or scraped I would imagine

 

[Ricky Kane]

Because there going to be sold or scraped I would imagine

I Thought they still needed them there is five down there

 

[Jordan Adam]

I Thought they still needed them there is five down there

I wouldn't think so given LCB has not long received those LMC Geminis (which are said to only be as a stock gap).

 

[Weemidi135]

I Thought they still needed them there is five down there

only 1 Left is 116 at LCB

 

[Ricky Kane]

only 1 Left is 116 at LCB

and 113

 

[scosutsut]

Just out of interest

Does anyone know what the emissions upgrades on the B7RLEs with the green roofline branding like 133 had comprised of and would/could/will they be reused on the newer ones?

 

[Ricky Kane]

Just out of interest

Does anyone know what the emissions upgrades on the B7RLEs with the green roofline branding like 133 had comprised of and would/could/will they be reused on the newer ones?

dont think you can because of the cat converter like a euro 4 cant be used in a euro 5

 

[overthewater]

If First has made £2million loses then surely LCB is in the same ball pack? No wonder there cant do proper tickets.