Football

[DarloRich]

Blyth Spartans 0 v Darlo 2

Great away win. New signing Reid with his first for the club against his fomer employers and a second from Bermudan international justin donowa

On to the doyles at Spennymoor on new years day!

 

[DarloRich]

David Moyes is the new West Ham manager!

 

[AlterEgo]

You're either offside or you're not, you wouldn't disallow a goal because the ball was only an inch over the line.

Oh right, which other exact sciences are there in football? When the laws for offside were written, what was the intention? It certainly wasn’t to find people a ball hair the wrong side of an elbow.

 

[AlterEgo]

Perhaps. I saw on another forum I’m on where someone suggested a VAR offside law and an offside law for non-VAR games. I’m not sure about that but I reckon it needs looked at by IFAB in some way or another.

I get what you mean and will admit I’m in a slightly biased position as a ref (thankfully in Scotland where we don’t have the joys of VAR
). Someone who’s toe is offside isn’t what the offside law is there for - it’s to stop attackers poaching in the penalty area for 90 minutes.
However if you let someone score who’s in an offside position - even just 1mm offside - where do you draw the line as what’s accepted? 10mm? A whole leg?
At least it’s consistent just now, even though infuriating at times.

Given the current trend to give attackers the benefit of the doubt wherever possible, I’d ban the use of VAR for all offsides unless they’re blatant - like clear daylight between players.

VAR is for clear and obvious refereeing errors only. It’s not for reducing football into an atomic science.

 

[Antman]

Oh right, which other exact sciences are there in football? When the laws for offside were written, what was the intention? It certainly wasn’t to find people a ball hair the wrong side of an elbow.

It's the offside law that needs to be changed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's the offside law that needs to be changed.

One suggestion I've heard circulating is to change the rule to be "if any part of an attacker is level with the last defender, then it's onside" rather than the current situation of "if any part of an attacker is ahead of the last defender, it's offside".

There will always be contentious decisions though, because it isn't easy to look along the line and know exactly when the ball is kicked... Marty Feldman would have made a great linesman, as he could look in two directions at once!

 

[scotrail158713]

One suggestion I've heard circulating is to change the rule to be "if any part of an attacker is level with the last defender, then it's onside" rather than the current situation of "if any part of an attacker is ahead of the last defender, it's offside".

IMO, that would just reverse the problem as VAR would then be looking at the tiniest fraction of a players heel being in line.

 

[Steveoh]

It's the offside law that needs to be changed.

Greenboy are you certain that the VAR offside line is being taken at the precise millisecond the ball is passed forwards? That's the level of precision that's being used to measure the offside line, what if that's slightly off? It's a terrible system, it's ruining the spontianiety of celebrating a goal, the rush that you get when your team scores is gone. To see a goal like Pukki's ruled out when he got back onside so intelligently is killing football. At the minute the offside law in the premier league is different when a goal is scored to that in the law it becomes:

1. Pick a passage of play, may be upto 6 or 7 phases earlier
2. Make an abribrary decision is taken as to when the ball is passed forwards
3. Draw some lines on a 2D screen to confirm a 3D image
4. See where your lines end up

I'd get rid of VAR for offside. It's supposed to be there to clear up the clangers. In fact I'd get rid of VAR.

 

[Cowley]

Everton transfer news

Anymore to that post?

 

[Antman]

Greenboy are you certain that the VAR offside line is being taken at the precise millisecond the ball is passed forwards? That's the level of precision that's being used to measure the offside line, what if that's slightly off? It's a terrible system, it's ruining the spontianiety of celebrating a goal, the rush that you get when your team scores is gone. To see a goal like Pukki's ruled out when he got back onside so intelligently is killing football. At the minute the offside law in the premier league is different when a goal is scored to that in the law it becomes:

1. Pick a passage of play, may be upto 6 or 7 phases earlier
2. Make an abribrary decision is taken as to when the ball is passed forwards
3. Draw some lines on a 2D screen to confirm a 3D image
4. See where your lines end up

I'd get rid of VAR for offside. It's supposed to be there to clear up the clangers. In fact I'd get rid of VAR.

And as I said previously before VAR people were moaning that poor referee's were killing football. The Pukki decision was nonsensical but VAR can only apply the laws as they stand, the offside law needs to be amended but that can't be done mid season.

 

[Steveoh]

And as I said previously before VAR people were moaning that poor referee's were killing football. The Pukki decision was nonsensical but VAR can only apply the laws as they stand, the offside law needs to be amended but that can't be done mid season.

But are we sure they are applying the laws as they stand? Can we be certain that the line is being drawn when the ball is kicked as I said before? The laws of the game don't state you must consult VAR when a goal is scored. Who is asking VAR to check or intervene? Different guidelines can be issued to VAR central - we can leave offside with the officials on the pitch. It doesn't have to be the way it is now. This will obviously lead to situations where incorrect offside decisions will be given, but on the whole I'd rather have the spontineity of football as it used to be than the VAR pause.

 

[Antman]

But are we sure they are applying the laws as they stand? Can we be certain that the line is being drawn when the ball is kicked as I said before? The laws of the game don't state you must consult VAR when a goal is scored. Who is asking VAR to check or intervene? Different guidelines can be issued to VAR central - we can leave offside with the officials on the pitch. It doesn't have to be the way it is now. This will obviously lead to situations where incorrect offside decisions will be given, but on the whole I'd rather have the spontineity of football as it used to be than the VAR pause.

These marginal offsides are just too close to call with the naked eye and if we leave it to the officials on the pitch the best they can realistically do is guess and if the decision is shown to be wrong in the post match analysis we'll have all the old complaints resurfacing about poor referee's.

The VAR referee reviews everything, nobody has to ask them to do so.

I think we all agree that the Puuki situation was ridiculous and Graeme Souness suggested changing it so that if any part of the forwards body is onside that's OK and there has to be daylight between forward and defender but I suppose that change could only be made at the end of the season.

 

[Steveoh]

These marginal offsides are just too close to call with the naked eye and if we leave it to the officials on the pitch the best they can realistically do is guess and if the decision is shown to be wrong in the post match analysis we'll have all the old complaints resurfacing about poor referee's.

The VAR referee reviews everything, nobody has to ask them to do so.

I think we all agree that the Puuki situation was ridiculous and Graeme Souness suggested changing it so that if any part of the forwards body is onside that's OK and there has to be daylight between forward and defender but I suppose that change could only be made at the end of the season.

If a law change is needed so that VAR can work effectively then we need to stop using VAR for those decisions until the law change is made. That change needs to be made with the whole football pyramid in mind too, not just the premier league's interpretation of VAR.

You are right of course that the issue with offside it's a guess, you can't look at the ball and the line at the same time; however a couple of minutes before computer says NO detracts more from the game than the controversy of the after match inquest (in my opinion). Is the emotion of the fan worth more than the money of the "correct" decision? We don't have to have VAR reviewing offsides.

 

[Howardh]

Football has created it's own problems with VAR. I follow hockey and we have video referrals, each team has one referral which they keep if successful, they lose if not. That, in theory, eliminates close-calls, interpretations etc as a captain won't risk the referral unless there's clearly an error. The video screens show what the video umpire is seeing, and we can hear the discussions between the umpires.

Also it helps a lot that we not don't have "offside" in hockey; we seem to have managed very well without it!

As for football, if you MUST have the offside rule, then change the benefit to the attacker rather than the defender and allow more goals to stand. Being a physical game, it's also difficult to interpret what is and isn't a foul considering it's the opinion of the referee. Therefore back to my original point about limited referrals, would a captain challenge the ref over an opinion which is unlikely to be overturned, whereas now everyone looks at the VAR ref to decide?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

On MOTD2 last night they brought up a stat that suggested that officials got around 97% of offside decisions correct. In a sport where contentious decisions get so much attention, that's a surprising success rate... however I'm not sure it would work to have VAR in use for some incidents but not others. I'm also not sure how we can get the genie back in the bottle now that he's been let out. Often rule changes are tested in non-league to see how they work in practice before applying them throughout the world (remember "kick-ins"?)... but with the costs involved in VAR, this probably wasn't an option.

I'll also quote a line from "The Referee's Alphabet" by Half Man Half Biscuit:

M is for the mistakes we sometimes make... surely a bit of controversy is part of the game's appeal.

 

[thejuggler]

Pundits, players, managers need to grow up and accept the change which those in the game have been asking for for years!

VAR/TMO whatever you want has been around for years in plenty of other sports. It works. So what if a player is fingernail offside? That's the law, they are offside.

A rugby player may have half a stud out of play before crossing the try line, a cricketer a heel a cm above the no ball line before bowling the ball to get the wicket. The decision is made and players move on, not football where every game needs hours of discussion on TV and radio about the system.

 

[AlterEgo]

Pundits, players, managers need to grow up and accept the change which those in the game have been asking for for years!

VAR/TMO whatever you want has been around for years in plenty of other sports. It works. So what if a player is fingernail offside? That's the law, they are offside.

A rugby player may have half a stud out of play before crossing the try line, a cricketer a heel a cm above the no ball line before bowling the ball to get the wicket. The decision is made and players move on, not football where every game needs hours of discussion on TV and radio about the system.

Football is an art; anyone who wants it reduced to an atomic science doesn’t really get it to be honest.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Football is an art

Where did that inspirational thought come from....

 

[Howardh]

Pundits, players, managers need to grow up and accept the change which those in the game have been asking for for years!

VAR/TMO whatever you want has been around for years in plenty of other sports. It works. So what if a player is fingernail offside? That's the law, they are offside.

A rugby player may have half a stud out of play before crossing the try line, a cricketer a heel a cm above the no ball line before bowling the ball to get the wicket. The decision is made and players move on, not football where every game needs hours of discussion on TV and radio about the system.

There are things in football that are an exact science, ie. over the line. However there are things which are opinion, interpretation, discretion - such as a player fouled (or not) in the box, whether a shove is fair play, whether an attacker's obstructed. If something like that goes to VAR then you have the ref's interpretation, and the VAR interpretation. If they give differing verdicts, which is right? The VAR may be more wrong than the ref!!
I'm not against VAR, but it really should be limited to one per team and kept if won, and weed out the frivolous referrals. If a captain thought a goal was offside and the linesman didn't - then sure, have the referral and decide on millimeters - but if the captain got it wrong then he's lost that referral when there might be an obvious clanger later on.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Derby 2 - 1 Charlton.

Stopped the rot with a performance out of the top drawer and Wassa to start on Thursday.

 

[Antman]

Pundits, players, managers need to grow up and accept the change which those in the game have been asking for for years!

VAR/TMO whatever you want has been around for years in plenty of other sports. It works. So what if a player is fingernail offside? That's the law, they are offside.

A rugby player may have half a stud out of play before crossing the try line, a cricketer a heel a cm above the no ball line before bowling the ball to get the wicket. The decision is made and players move on, not football where every game needs hours of discussion on TV and radio about the system.

I totally agree and people knocking VAR would no doubt be complaining about referee's getting things wrong if we didn't have it. I think the offside law needs to be amended but other than that I think VAR has worked quite well

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

BetVictor Northern Premier League

Buxton 1 .. Hyde United 2

A crowd of 600 attended this New Year's Day match and Hyde scored twice in the ten minute period before half-time. Buxton pulled a goal back just before the hour mark. I was surprised to see Buxton in their current lowly league position, as they normally have a good player squad.

This win sees Hyde in ninth place in the league.

 

[Karl]

Paul, I hope you don't mind me asking. I don't want to be rude. Can you explain your new user name? I'm discombobulated. I still recall you as Paul.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Paul, I hope you don't mind me asking. I don't want to be rude. Can you explain your new user name? I'm discombobulated. I still recall you as Paul.

I have sent what I still call a "PM" to you detailing the reasons for it and also to inform you of the age-related medical reasons why it became essential why we have relocated home to an area with services on hand.

 

[TrainTube]

Arsenal play Leeds United on the 6th of January! Leeds are currently top of the Championship ahead of West Brom on goal difference, and have an impressive 15 wins. Arsenal meanwhile are 10th in the Premier League with only 6 wins, only 3 other teams in the Prem have fewer wins. However, Arsenal come off an impressive 2-0 win over Man United, new head coach Mikel Arteta's first win.
Each teams recent form has been mixed. Leeds have won 6 of their last 10 games, with 3 draws and only 1 loss. Despite that, Leeds have lost 5 out of their last 6 matches against Arsenal, they will have to play at their best for this fixture. Arsenal have only won 2 out of their last 10 games, with 4 draws and 4 losses. During that time they have had 3 head coaches, possibly hinting their performances were down to players rather than staff.
This is the 17th fixture between the 2 teams, both I'm sure will want to win this game, as the loser will be out of the competition and both teams need silverware.
Should be a cracker of a game!

 

[Grumpy Git]

Always a good day when Leeds (or Man U) get beat.

 

[greyman42]

Arsenal play Leeds United on the 6th of January! Leeds are currently top of the Championship ahead of West Brom on goal difference, they each have an impressive 15 wins. Arsenal meanwhile are 10th in the Premier League with only 6 wins, only 3 other teams in the Prem have fewer wins. However, Arsenal come off an impressive 2-0 win over Man United, new head coach Mikel Arteta's first win.
Each teams recent form has been mixed. Leeds have won 6 of their last 10 games, with 3 draws and only 1 loss. Despite that, Leeds have lost 5 out of their last 6 matches against Arsenal, they will have to play at their best for this fixture. Arsenal have only won 2 out of their last 10 games, with 4 draws and 4 losses. During that time they have had 3 head coaches, possibly hinting their performances were down to players rather than staff.
This is the 17th fixture between the 2 teams, both I'm sure will want to win this game, as the loser will be out of the competition and both teams need silverware.
Should be a cracker of a game!

None of the above takes into account what strength team Arteta choses to field. Regardless of that, Leeds don't have any chance of winning the F A Cup, even if they beat a weakened Arsenal. If Arsenal field a strong side they will easily win.

 

[TrainTube]

Always a good day when Leeds (or Man U) get beat.

Being a Liverpool Fan, it's brilliant seeing Uniteds demise, i'm sure Arsenal fans will agree too.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Being a Liverpool Fan, it's brilliant seeing Uniteds demise, i'm sure Arsenal fans will agree too.

All that being said, which was the team to have spoilt what should have been a perfect 100% league record so far this season for Liverpool?

 

[TrainTube]

All that being said, which was the team to have spoilt what should have been a perfect 100% league record so far this season for Liverpool?

To be honest I don't really mind the draw, if they would've beaten us (which was the case until near the end) then it would've been different but I don't expect any team to have a 100% win record, I think we will draw to another team. If we win every single game now then I will look back and be slightly annoyed but I can't complain where we are in.
Man United may have beaten us, but they have problems of their own and their league position is only due to poor performances of other teams.