TransPennine Express Nova 1 (Class 802) Diagrams

[Purple Orange]

Even with full introduction it looked (from RTT) as if there was one 185 diagram retained on Manchester Airport to Newcastle so the answer is 16 - 10 diagrams on Liverpool to Edinburgh and 6 on Manchester Airport to Newcastle. 2 start at Craigentinny, 7 at Heaton, 4 at Edge Hill, 2 at Doncaster Carr and 1 at York.

It will clearly be a few months before they run all of this.



The following two diagrams have to be 185s and swap at Manchester Airport

Thanks very much. Very useful to know about the 185 diagram too. I know it shouldn't really make a difference, but once the new trains are in service I would prefer to avoid using the 185s between Manchester and Leeds/York and Newcastle where I can. Similarly with travelling to Scotland, I have preferred Virgin over TPE simply due to space. Simply put, a commuter style train on a relatively long distance is not as comfortable, and if I am not alone in my preferences, TPE should probably see a lot of people move move to using them more frequently.

 

[SHerr]

Even with full introduction it looked (from RTT) as if there was one 185 diagram retained on Manchester Airport to Newcastle so the answer is 16 - 10 diagrams on Liverpool to Edinburgh and 6 on Manchester Airport to Newcastle. 2 start at Craigentinny, 7 at Heaton, 4 at Edge Hill, 2 at Doncaster Carr and 1 at York.

It will clearly be a few months before they run all of this.



The following two diagrams have to be 185s and swap at Manchester Airport

I’m wondering if there’s a bit of an issue here with all/most of the fleets that’s not quite come out yet due to partial introduction. Both here and the class 68/mk5 discussions are now inferring a 185 diagram still remaining after full fleet introduction.

All of TPEs new trains were ordered before the hopelessly optimistic May 18 debacle with tight turnaround times at both ends of lots of diagrams. We are also seeing comments about being unable to get 802’s maintained.

I can’t help but wonder if every fleet is 1 or even 2 units short and was very optimistic about diagrams and utilisation? Obviously when ordering new fleets they are not cheap and you don’t want loads of spares but maybe a bit too tight?

Only a thought, no inside gen and not a dig!

 

[Jamesrob637]

I’m wondering if there’s a bit of an issue here with all/most of the fleets that’s not quite come out yet due to partial introduction. Both here and the class 68/mk5 discussions are now inferring a 185 diagram still remaining after full fleet introduction.

All of TPEs new trains were ordered before the hopelessly optimistic May 18 debacle with tight turnaround times at both ends of lots of diagrams. We are also seeing comments about being unable to get 802’s maintained.

I can’t help but wonder if every fleet is 1 or even 2 units short and was very optimistic about diagrams and utilisation? Obviously when ordering new fleets they are not cheap and you don’t want loads of spares but maybe a bit too tight?

Only a thought, no inside gen and not a dig!

One more of each maybe, that's what you're implying? That would be good, then TPE could utilize the whole fleet at times such as Manchester Parklife (bit old for that now!) and Leeds Festival (still would like to go soon!)

 

[SWTrainspottin]

Even with full introduction it looked (from RTT) as if there was one 185 diagram retained on Manchester Airport to Newcastle so the answer is 16 - 10 diagrams on Liverpool to Edinburgh and 6 on Manchester Airport to Newcastle. 2 start at Craigentinny, 7 at Heaton, 4 at Edge Hill, 2 at Doncaster Carr and 1 at York.

It will clearly be a few months before they run all of this.



The following two diagrams have to be 185s and swap at Manchester Airport

Do you happen to know which of those are booked to be Nova 1's? Thanks

 

[SWTrainspottin]

Original post updated with what should be the current booked weekday diagrams.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Deleted

 

[railways45021]

how many Class 802s does TPE have in service now?

 

[JonathanH]

how many Class 802s does TPE have in service now?

All 19 of them except 802205 have operated in passenger service. That doesn't mean the other 18 are all available.

 

[Yorkshireman16]

All 19 of them except 802205 have operated in passenger service. That doesn't mean the other 18 are all available.

802205 is on the tpe depot York

 

[SWTrainspottin]

Nova 1 - 6 January 2019

802214
1P13, 9M08, 9S13, 9M18

802219
9M06, 9S11, 9M16, 9E21

802207
9S06, 9M11, 9S16

802213
1P08, 1P15, 1P22, 1P29, 1P36, 1P93, 5P93

802217
1P10, 1P17, 1P24, 1P31, 1P38

802206
1P14, 1P21, 1P28, 1P35,

 

[Jamesrob637]

Nova 1 - 6 January 2019

802214
1P13, 9M08, 9S13, 9M18

802219
9M06, 9S11, 9M16, 9E21

802207
9S06, 9M11, 9S16

802213
1P08, 1P15, 1P22, 1P29, 1P36, 1P93, 5P93

802217
1P10, 1P17, 1P24, 1P31, 1P38

802206
1P14, 1P21, 1P28, 1P35,

That looks good - I did predict six or seven diagrams come Monday, which is what today is. No wonder nothing on TPE has been cancelled today apart from what is semi-permanently cancelled until the end of the month - 185s can cover some Anglo-Scottish workings for now.

 

[Spartacus]

1P10 was worked by 802213.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Nova 1 - 6 January 2019

802214
1P13, 9M08, 9S13, 9M18

802219
9M06, 9S11, 9M16, 9E21

802207
9S06, 9M11, 9S16

802213
1P08, 1P15, 1P22, 1P29, 1P36, 1P93, 5P93

802217
1P10, 1P17, 1P24, 1P31, 1P38

802206
1P14, 1P21, 1P28, 1P35,

Great progress then, out of the three new TPE fleets Hitatchi seems to be the winner-802's are way ahead of the Class 397 And MK5 stock regarding entry into service and the how many been accepted-/in use-only one or two 397s are in daily service with several MK5 sets still in store/not in use yet.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Great progress then, out of the three new TPE fleets Hitatchi seems to be the winner-802's are way ahead of the Class 397 And MK5 stock regarding entry into service and the how many been accepted-/in use-only one or two 397s are in daily service with several MK5 sets still in store/not in use yet.

Presumably this because the rail industry has more experience of the 802s and some of the teething problems have been sorted before TPE introduced them.

397s and Mk5a are new with no experience elsewhere.

 

[JonathanH]

Great progress then, out of the three new TPE fleets Hitatchi seems to be the winner-802's are way ahead of the Class 397 And MK5 stock regarding entry into service and the how many been accepted-/in use-only one or two 397s are in daily service with several MK5 sets still in store/not in use yet

Once you allow for planned cancellations, there are hardly any journeys on the Liverpool to Edinburgh left to cancel 'on the day'. It is just the three 802 diagrams (out of a theoretical ten) which are running on this route - the 9S / 9M workings - ie no Liverpool to Newcastle short workings using 185s.

The three other 802 diagrams (1Pxx workings) are Manchester Airport to Newcastle ones running alongside 185s on the other three diagrams for 802s and the booked 185 diagram.

A number of 802s are running about in plain grey livery and will need a trip to Eastleigh in the near future.

Mark 5 stock introduction seems to be getting there with eight sets now available. That means there are only five left to accept. Eight sets would appear sufficient to operate all Scarborough diagrams.

185s can cover some Anglo-Scottish workings for now.

Only as cover for 350 / 397 on the west side - not on the east side.

 

[paddyb6]

Anyone know the Saturday diagrams for the 802s

Much appreciated!

 

[31160]

Original post updated with what should be the current booked weekday diagrams.

Could the current Mon-Fri diagrams be moved over to the FAQ section please

 

[SWTrainspottin]

Anyone know the Saturday diagrams for the 802s

Much appreciated!

Some of the Saturday diagrams are in the original post now.

Could the current Mon-Fri diagrams be moved over to the FAQ section please

You mean this?

 

[Chris125]

I’m wondering if there’s a bit of an issue here with all/most of the fleets that’s not quite come out yet due to partial introduction. Both here and the class 68/mk5 discussions are now inferring a 185 diagram still remaining after full fleet introduction.

I may be wrong, but I'd assumed it was to help traincrew on these routes retain their competency on 185s?

 

[31160]

Some of the Saturday diagrams are in the original post now.


You mean this?

Yes please that would be lovely easy to find when needed etc.

 

[route101]

Once you allow for planned cancellations, there are hardly any journeys on the Liverpool to Edinburgh left to cancel 'on the day'. It is just the three 802 diagrams (out of a theoretical ten) which are running on this route - the 9S / 9M workings - ie no Liverpool to Newcastle short workings using 185s.

The three other 802 diagrams (1Pxx workings) are Manchester Airport to Newcastle ones running alongside 185s on the other three diagrams for 802s and the booked 185 diagram.

A number of 802s are running about in plain grey livery and will need a trip to Eastleigh in the near future.

Mark 5 stock introduction seems to be getting there with eight sets now available. That means there are only five left to accept. Eight sets would appear sufficient to operate all Scarborough diagrams.



Only as cover for 350 / 397 on the west side - not on the east side.

A 185 covered a 802 to Edinburgh recently.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

185s were supposedly barrred from the Edinburgh workings as they are based on timings running above 100mph, however it has been shown that a 185 keeps to time better than a 802 on diesel, apparently!

Bear in mind 802s need to run on diesel north of Morpeth and (on sundays only) south of Durham due to OHLE power limitations, the 185 barring north of Newcastle seemingly been relaxed as a result.

 

[SWTrainspottin]

Yes please that would be lovely easy to find when needed etc.

I can't add to that thread.

 

[transmanche]

185s were supposedly barrred from the Edinburgh workings as they are based on timings running above 100mph, however it has been shown that a 185 keeps to time better than a 802 on diesel, apparently!

Bear in mind 802s need to run on diesel north of Morpeth and (on sundays only) south of Durham due to OHLE power limitations, the 185 barring north of Newcastle seemingly been relaxed as a result.

I noticed that RTT reports the journeys are 'pathed as an 80x on electric' as far north as Chathill, switching to diesel there and then back to electric at Longniddry.

If the switchover is (for the time being) taking place at Morpeth, does that explain why the 802 is struggling to keep time? And is the changeover taking place at Morpeth because the Automatic Power Change Over balises have not been sorted?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

TPE don't yet allow changeover on the move. Whether this is down to ropey ECML OHLE or TPE management nerves I cannot say. As the nearest station stops to the changeover points are Man Vicc, York, Durham and Morpeth that is where the changeover takes place. Currently due to power limitations at Tweedmouth and with LNER now switched over from HST to 800 the current draw has increased to the point where the OHLE cannot support potentially 3-4 LNER and 2 TPE electrics in the area at a time, think it was only ever powered enough for 2x mk4 plus 1 freight (86/87/90/92) when BR strung the wires up - this being not long after Serpell suggested shutting the ECML.While LNER were running HSTs and TPE were only running training trains on an ad hoc basis at most you had 2x mk4/800 plus the one TPE drawing power, even this however saw the voltage drop to 22kv and close to the point the 80x would complain and shut down, but the additional trains mean now TPE have to run on diesel until the power supply is upgraded in 2022. Just as well they have the larger 940hp engines fitted although that still doesn't give the train enough power compared to running off the wires. Theres only 1800ish HP available on diesel compared to nearer 3000 on OHLE. Less power for top end speed and acceleration shows in the performance, they cant attain 125mph on diesel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope they are able to get changeovers on the move sorted - Manchester Victoria would be improved no end by reducing the amount of diesel fumes in what is quite a confined space, and fumes are at their worst when starting engines up.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

No wires up miles plating bank tho...

 

[ajdunlop]

What length of wiring would be needed for changeover just after a Station (I assume it would depend on line speed)?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The bit east of Vicc is just for station stunts and has no use for departing. With the close proximity of the bank you'd lose speed and probably grind to a halt before the changeover kicked in.
The changeover is surprisingly quick to be fair tho.

 

[HSP 2]

The bit east of Vicc is just for station stunts and has no use for departing.

So what sort of stunts do they do at the east end of MCV?

Sorry.