ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[CJSwan]

The plain blue/original interior 170s (416-420?) are heading off to East Midland Railway I think

 

[hexagon789]

The plain blue/original interior 170s (416-420?) are heading off to East Midland Railway I think

Another 5 units, that could make things right if more HST sets don't appear soon

 

[43096]

I thought the unit transfers away from ScotRail had ended, which is the main reason they are just about able to scrape together cover for unavailable HST sets

Five more 170s to go: 170416-420 go to EMR.

 

[InOban]

I think that you are correct. The scogov decided to extend the lease on a number of units for which a new user had not been agreed.

 

[43096]

Another 5 units, that could make things right if more HST sets don't appear soon

I actually think those five going might be a good thing, as it ought to concentrate some minds in ScotRail engineering about getting their trains into traffic rather than leaving them scattered round Haymarket like confetti.

Although I wouldn't have much confidence in the Engineering Director if the current Modern Railways is anything to go by. She's quoted as saying the 334s have had their Scharfenburg couplers replaced by Tightlocks. No, think you'll find it is the other way round if you go over to Shields and look at one.

 

[hexagon789]

Five more 170s to go: 170416-420 go to EMR.

Thanks

I actually think those five going might be a good thing, as it ought to concentrate some minds in ScotRail engineering about getting their trains into traffic rather than leaving them scattered round Haymarket like confetti.

Well quite, nothing focuses the mind on getting trains into service quite like a lack of spare units to rely upon

 

[InvHst]

So it’s 10 diagrams mixed just now until more deliveries and ScotRail can run all 10 as refurbs.

I still think it’s really low the number of available refurbs.

We have 9 currently and at any one time 1/3 are unavailable.

12 diagrams Monday-Friday
10 diagrams on a Saturday
And Sunday normally sits at about 6/7 diagrams.

Plan is to run as many Refurbs as possible 10 refurbs in the country last 3 have all entered service within a week of arrival compared to the previous 7. Now take into account that HA25/26 are both in Inverness currently. 25 is formed up where as HA26 is in bits in the shed next to platform 2. So that leaves 8 fully functional refurbs so 7 out today is fairly impressive

 

[jopsuk]

Having been up in Scotland over the holidays and seen a couple of refurb sets, it is quite clear that the vinyl bits of the livery really are a mistake and aren't cleaning at all.

 

[hexagon789]

Having been up in Scotland over the holidays and seen a couple of refurb sets, it is quite clear that the vinyl bits of the livery really are a mistake and aren't cleaning at all.

Yes, they are effectively just dirt collectors and it does nothing to enhance ScotRail's image

 

[Steven_G]

12 diagrams Monday-Friday
10 diagrams on a Saturday
And Sunday normally sits at about 6/7 diagrams.

Plan is to run as many Refurbs as possible 10 refurbs in the country last 3 have all entered service within a week of arrival compared to the previous 7. Now take into account that HA25/26 are both in Inverness currently. 25 is formed up where as HA26 is in bits in the shed next to platform 2. So that leaves 8 fully functional refurbs so 7 out today is fairly impressive

Great facts and I agree, pretty good.

Sounding like they have a handle on them. HA26 - one of the first. Regular overhaul?

 

[Carntyne]

12 diagrams Monday-Friday
10 diagrams on a Saturday
And Sunday normally sits at about 6/7 diagrams.

Plan is to run as many Refurbs as possible 10 refurbs in the country last 3 have all entered service within a week of arrival compared to the previous 7. Now take into account that HA25/26 are both in Inverness currently. 25 is formed up where as HA26 is in bits in the shed next to platform 2. So that leaves 8 fully functional refurbs so 7 out today is fairly impressive

11 Mon-Sat

 

[InvHst]

11 Mon-Sat

My bad thanks for the correction
Monday-Friday are different to Saturdays though

 

[InvHst]

Great facts and I agree, pretty good.

Sounding like they have a handle on them. HA26 - one of the first. Regular overhaul?

I have no idea what the situation is with HA25/26 Both haven't been seen for a long time in service

 

[marks87]

Eight refurbs out today according to ScotRail's Twitter feed.

 

[BRX]

It's not on the twitter list but my 0944 from inverness turns out to be a refurb set.

 

[CJSwan]

It was going to be nine refurbs out today, see below copy and pasted post on Scottish Railways Group from Facebook...


“Monday 6th January - NINE Refurbs are out... oh wait HA25 failed now a 158 instead and just 2 Classics

43152 HA22 43032 - REFURB
1A41 05:30 Edinburgh Aberdeen 08:14
1B18 09:04 Aberdeen Edinburgh 11:37
1A75 12:30 Edinburgh Aberdeen 14:50
1B40 16:02 Aberdeen Edinburgh 18:33
1A88 19:34 Edinburgh to Aberdeen 21:53

43131 HA23 43003 - REFURB
1B14 04:56 Inverness Edinburgh 09:31
1A71 11:32 Edinburgh Aberdeen 13:52
1T34 15:38 Aberdeen Glasgow QS 18:23
1A87 18:40 Glasgow QS Aberdeen 21:20
1H43 22:00 Aberdeen Inverness 00:08

43012 HA21 43175 - REFURB
1B07 05:49 Aberdeen Edinburgh 08:24
1A55 09:28 Edinburgh Aberdeen 11:51
1B32 13:12 Aberdeen Edinburgh 15:33
1A79 16:28 Edinburgh Aberdeen 19:05
1T48 19:45 Aberdeen Glasgow QS 22:21

43146 HA25 43169 - REFURB
FAILED EASTFIELD NOW 158741
1H05 07:07 Glasgow QS Inverness 10:29
1A50 11:02 Inverness Aberdeen 13:10
1H33 13:43 Aberdeen Inverness 16:01
1A58 17:14 Inverness Aberdeen 19:40

43148 HA17 43026 - REFURB
1A51 07:41 Glasgow QS Aberdeen 10:15
1T18 10:46 Aberdeen Glasgow QS 13:18
1A67 13:39 Glasgow QS Aberdeen 16:22
1T40 17:39 Aberdeen Glasgow QS 20:26
1A91 20:40 Glasgow QS Aberdeen 23:21

43132 HA20 43033 - REFURB
5A53 Perth Glasgow QS (ECS)
1A53 08:40 Glasgow QS Aberdeen 11:21
1T22 12:47 Aberdeen Glasgow QS 15:18
1A73 15:39 Glasgow QS Aberdeen 18:13
1B47 19:16 Aberdeen Edinburgh 21:34

43140 HA18 43126 - REFURB
1A45 07:29 Edinburgh Aberdeen 09:56
1B24 11:02 Aberdeen Edinburgh 13:23
1A78 15:28 Edinburgh Aberdeen 17:52
1T44 18:40 Aberdeen Glasgow QS 21:15
1A95 21:40 Glasgow QS Aberdeen 00:29

43030 HA03 43144 - CLASSIC
1T06 05:39 Aberdeen Glasgow QS 08:30
1H51 12:08 Glasgow QS Inverness 15:22
1B54 15:56 Inverness Edinburgh 19:34
1H19 19:41 Edinburgh Inverness 23:14

43141 HA24 43168 - REFURB
1H23 06:22 Aberdeen Inverness 08:36
1B52 09:44 Inverness Edinburgh 13:15
1H13 13:33 Edinburgh Inverness 16:54
1T62 17:27 Inverness Glasgow QS 20:45

43015 HA05 43031 - CLASSIC
1T98 08:45 Inverness Glasgow QS 12:07
1H15 15:08 Glasgow QS Inverness 18:26
1B44 18:53 Inverness Edinburgh 22:23

43181 HA19 43129 - REFURB
1T10 07:38 Aberdeen Glasgow QS 10:10
1A59 10:40 Glasgow QS Aberdeen 13:12
1T26 13:50 Aberdeen Glasgow QS 16:18
1A77 16:42 Glasgow QS Aberdeen 19:27
1B51 20:11 Aberdeen Edinburgh 22:47”

 

[BRX]

It's not on the twitter list but my 0944 from inverness turns out to be a refurb set.

So... this was my first trip on a refurb set.

Overall there's no question that it was more comfortable than either a 158 or 170. It does feel like a proper intercity train, suitable for longer journeys.

I can't say it has quite the 'quality' feel of the Chiltern refurbed mk3s that I've also travelled on, but it's ok. There didn't seem to be anything specifically wrong with the set I travelled on. No leaking roofs, both toilets functioning, and we kept to time and got to Edinburgh on schedule.

The buffet/cafe bar was open and stocked. The staff there told me that most people don't yet realise it's there (not surprising given the inconsistency with which the refurbs appear so far) meaning they don't sell a lot at the moment. But a proper coffee machine, hot bacon rolls and so on is a big step up from a trolley-only service in my opinion.

My main and only major complaint is the lighting in the passenger saloons. When GWR refurbed the HSTs they installed terrible, overly bright, harshly cold lighting, which I call abattoir style. I'm not sure if this has simply been retained, or replaced with something only slightly less bad. Either way, it's much too cold a light. It's especially evident travelling on the HML in morning winter light when everything outside is a soft slightly orange hue and the train interior is blueish white. My travelling partner described it as 'mortuary lighting' The lighting in the re-done vestibules is not the same - it's a warmer white, which suggests they went for the cheap option and retained the GWR installation in the saloons. It's really a shame this mistake has been made with the lighting because if it could be changed it would make it a much more relaxing travelling environment.

By the way, although there's no underfloor engine noise, I noticed the set I was on had a habit that loco-hauled sets sometimes seem to have, which is that the passenger intercom system (I think?) seems to transmit a kind of electrical buzz that's related to the revs the engines are running at.

 

[jamieintercity]

8 refurbished sets out in service today. Seen a classic set on 1B24 as well

 

[connormill]

8 refurbished sets out in service today. Seen a classic set on 1B24 as well

8 out of 10 isn't bad and is a marked improvement over what we seen last year. Given the last set was delivered just before the Christmas break, is it to be assumed we wont see a January delivery or are we finally up to a 1 (or more) per month schedule?

I'll be travelling on the 1350 ABD-GLQ on the 17th so hoping for a refurb then

 

[Speed43125]

By the way, although there's no underfloor engine noise, I noticed the set I was on had a habit that loco-hauled sets sometimes seem to have, which is that the passenger intercom system (I think?) seems to transmit a kind of electrical buzz that's related to the revs the engines are running at.

I've not experienced that myself, I'll try listening out for it next time I travel.
My main complaint is when they're really full on the stretch between GLQ and STG some people stand in the vestibule and then obviously lean against where the door opens and it gets really loud in the rest of the coach, especially on some sets where the corridor connections make a really annoying squeaky rubber noise.
But as you say, generally a very good product.

 

[GusB]

I had my first trip on a refurb set just before Christmas and I also noted a distinct whine/hum that rose and fell in pitch with the engine revs. I was in the rearmost carriage and I just assumed I was hearing the power car behind me.

One thing that did impress me was how quickly we built up speed. If I had one criticism it would be the ride quality - it felt rather bouncy, especially over track joints and there was a noticeable judder when the brakes were applied.

There was no mention of the buffet being open, but the chap with the trolley was working his socks off - I lost count of the number of times he passed me.

 

[43096]

I had my first trip on a refurb set just before Christmas and I also noted a distinct whine/hum that rose and fell in pitch with the engine revs. I was in the rearmost carriage and I just assumed I was hearing the power car behind me.

Probably the air conditioning.

 

[John Bishop]

11 HST sets out yesterday.

 

[Highland37]

Yes things are starting to look up. Just Wabtec who need to get their fingers out now.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Yes things are starting to look up. Just Wabtec who need to get their fingers out now.

Yes if we manage to get monthly deliveries, that be 24 by end of 2020 (12 this year added to the 10 delivered so far), with Wabtec now on the last set for Cross Country and the last couple for GWR we should all been well see a big speed up....

 

[Northhighland]

Was in Glasgow yesterday HST was really good. As eh ms maintenance teams are getting on top of things that is really good.

Am sure Wabtec will get production up and we will see steady improvement. Only cyclists left unhappy!

 

[BRX]

Only cyclists left unhappy!

The three (presumably fully functional) cycle storage racks installed by GWR in the power car were visible through the connecting door on my trip the other day.

One of the reasons given for not using them was to do with the opening/closing of the power car sliding doors, which would need to be supervised by staff, would take time and (mentioned at one point) the difficulty of maintaining them in working order.

However, I wondered, why not simply access these storage spaces via the public vestibule of the end coach, wheeling the bikes through the interconnecting door between end coach and power car? Then it doesn't seem substantially different to how you access the (inadequate) cycle storage area that's been installed within one of the coaches.

 

[43096]

The three (presumably fully functional) cycle storage racks installed by GWR in the power car were visible through the connecting door on my trip the other day.

One of the reasons given for not using them was to do with the opening/closing of the power car sliding doors, which would need to be supervised by staff, would take time and (mentioned at one point) the difficulty of maintaining them in working order.

However, I wondered, why not simply access these storage spaces via the public vestibule of the end coach, wheeling the bikes through the interconnecting door between end coach and power car? Then it doesn't seem substantially different to how you access the (inadequate) cycle storage area that's been installed within one of the coaches.

Because the power car gangway door is locked. Quite rightly so as there is then no locked door between the van area and the engine room (and ultimately the cab).

 

[BRX]

Because the power car gangway door is locked. Quite rightly so as there is then no locked door between the van area and the engine room (and ultimately the cab).

Ok, so is there a reason the door between the van and engine room can't be locked. Maybe there is, and maybe there is other stuff in the van area that passengers could interfere with. In that case, loading still needs to be supervised, but could it be done in a less time consuming manner than would be necessary otherwise. For example could passengers be directed to load their bikes into the vestibule and wait there until the train had departed, at which point the guard could then unlock the door and assist with stowing the bikes, a process which would not be holding up departure.

 

[43096]

Ok, so is there a reason the door between the van and engine room can't be locked. Maybe there is, and maybe there is other stuff in the van area that passengers could interfere with. In that case, loading still needs to be supervised, but could it be done in a less time consuming manner than would be necessary otherwise. For example could passengers be directed to load their bikes into the vestibule and wait there until the train had departed, at which point the guard could then unlock the door and assist with stowing the bikes, a process which would not be holding up departure.

There's other technical equipment in the van, including OTMR kit, MTU engine management system and parking brake equipment amongst other things. Add in the risk that passengers try to get out through the luggage van doors (or try to and disturb the locking of them) and it really isn't a place that any member of the public should be without staff present.