Class 350/1 refurbishment

[RealTrains07]

I heard 113 was refurbished with LM livery still, can anyone confirm?

 

[RealTrains07]

350101 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350102 - Unrefurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350103 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350104 - Unrefurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350105 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350106 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350107 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350108 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350109 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350110 - Refurbished, LM ‘Project 110’ Livery with LNR branding
350111 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350112 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350113 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350114 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350115 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350116 - Refurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350117 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350118 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350119 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350120 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350121 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350122 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350123 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350124 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350125 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350126 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350127 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350128 - Unrefurbished, LM Livery with LNR branding
350129 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
350130 - Refurbished, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery

Key:

Normal text = no refurb, LM Livery with LNR branding
Bold text = no refurb, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery
Green text = refurb, LM Livery with LNR branding
Bold green text = refurb, Corrosion Repair Complete, in LNR Undercoat livery

Keep me updated with any changes and I will update the list!

Thank you, much appreciated
Should to be a little bit easier to keep track of them now

 

[Ladder23]

Great guidance there thanks for your efforts!

 

[NewSt]

Thank you, much appreciated
Should to be a little bit easier to keep track of them now

No worries, happy to help!

 

[Dan15812]

Overall a really good refurbishment!

Has anything changed in the toilets in the refurbished 350/1?

 

[RealTrains07]

Overall a really good refurbishment!

Has anything changed in the toilets in the refurbished 350/1?

Much better than the 450s appearance wise for sure

all that is needed now is new stickers to replace the LM ones

 

[Dan15812]

Much better than the 450s appearance wise for sure

all that is needed now is new stickers to replace the LM ones

LNR spent money on the grab poles, PIS display and USB plugs.

SWR spent money on relocating first-class with new tables for wireless charging. This ment new side panels in the old first class section!

Overall, both refurbs are fairly similar with SWR having a slightly better maquette. In terms of appearance LNR is better as the green grab poles really do transform the colour scheme!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though LNR have been too cheap to replace the blue panels by the doors with green or grey, which makes them look really out of place.

 

[Dan15812]

Though LNR have been too cheap to replace the blue panels by the doors with green or grey, which makes them look really out of place.

Yes, but they probably has the same budget as SWR.

 

[Dan15812]

Has anything changed in the toilets in the refurbished 350/1?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't SWR flat cloth rather than moquette? If so I expect it will start showing muck soon. Moquette, ideally with vinyl/leather headrests (which LNR have sadly not done), really is the best way to go.

(Leather/vinyl headrests are one of those things where everyone shouted "but fire regs" and then TPE rolled out two fleets of brand new stock with, er, leather/vinyl headrests. Are the naysayers ever right?)

 

[Goldfish62]

Isn't SWR flat cloth rather than moquette? If so I expect it will start showing muck soon. Moquette, ideally with vinyl/leather headrests (which LNR have sadly not done), really is the best way to go.

(Leather/vinyl headrests are one of those things where everyone shouted "but fire regs" and then TPE rolled out two fleets of brand new stock with, er, leather/vinyl headrests. Are the naysayers ever right?)

While I agree about moquette being the most durable, SWR flat cloth isn't showing any particular signs of wear. It seems a tougher material than that used on Northern and the SWT cleaning regime is probably better than at Northern, which seems non-existent. I note that Go South Coast uses flat cloth on its buses and has done for quite some time.

SWR also uses leather on headrests, including on the new Class 701s.

 

[Merle Haggard]

... ... This ment new side panels in the old first class section! ... ...

(relating to the 450's)

The WM refurbishment of the 350/1 first class includes replacing the cloth-covered side panels in the first with painted sheet ?metal?. Not sure why; the old material showed no sign of stain or discolouration.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, but they probably has the same budget as SWR.

Or not. Hasn’t it already been noted (as an example) that the 350/1s haven’t had their redundant guards office removed properly?

 

[RealTrains07]

Or not. Hasn’t it already been noted (as an example) that the 350/1s haven’t had their redundant guards office removed properly?

Yes the office interior has been cleared out and the door taken off however the sides are still there with a large luggage rack plugging the gap. Probably more difficult with the 350/1s due to the fact first class is staying where it is so just removing the office entirely may have been an issue?

 

[swt_passenger]

No the office interior has been cleared out and the door taken off however the sides are still there with a large luggage rack plugging the gap. Probably more difficult with the 350/1s due to the fact first class is staying where it is so just removing the office may have been an issue?

Whatever. There’s no evidence that they “probably had the same budget”, and why would they anyway?

 

[RealTrains07]

Whatever. There’s no evidence that they “probably had the same budget”, and why would they anyway?

They wouldn’t thats the thing.
What did they actually spend of the 350 refurbishment? I haven’t found anything online about the actual cost thus far

I guess.. we can presume their are similarities in the budget due to what has actually been done to the 350s in comparison with the 450s??

 

[swt_passenger]

They wouldn’t thats the thing.
What did they actually spend of the 350 refurbishment? I haven’t found anything online about the actual cost thus far

I guess.. we can presume their are similarities in the budget due to what has actually been done to the 350s in comparison with the 450s??

I don’t think they’re comparable. I reckon they’ve done significantly more work to the 450s, but the cost announced was the total for 127 x 450 and 45 x 444, wasn’t it?

 

[RealTrains07]

I don’t think they’re comparable. I reckon they’ve done significantly more work to the 450s, but the cost announced was the total for 127 x 450 and 45 x 444, wasn’t it?

Yeah it was.

minus the stickers and the blue panels the refurbished looks more complete on the 350s thus far have to say

 

[Dan15812]

Whatever. There’s no evidence that they “probably had the same budget”, and why would they anyway?

The cost of the refurb would have been financed by ''Angel Trains'' for both LNWR and SWR so that's why they are both very slimier!

LNWR = Grab poles, USB, PIS screens
SWR = Relocated first-class, Wireless charging tables, New first seats on 444

The class 185's are owned by ''Eversholt Rail'' hence why they had a better refurb!

 

[swt_passenger]

The cost of the refurb would have been financed by ''Angel Trains'' for both LNWR and SWR so that's why they are both very slimier!

LNWR = Grab poles, USB, PIS screens
SWR = Relocated first-class, Wireless charging tables, New first seats on 444

Relocating first class properly, as done on the 450s, would surely cost way more than what’s been done to the 350s, and the 450s are still to get their updated PIS, which wasn’t due until end of 2020.

I see no evidence for the costs being similar, whoever owns them.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Relocating first class properly, as done on the 450s... ... ..

I don't myself know what form the 450 first class re-location took, but if it was to lengthen the first to the doorway beyond the former guard's office then this is perhaps a reversal of what's being done to the 350/4s by WMR when they are refurbished (although I'm not sure of that, either, though that's the impression being given - i.e., that the first on the 350/4s will become identical to that in the other 350s).

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't myself know what form the 450 first class re-location took, but if it was to lengthen the first to the doorway beyond the former guard's office then this is perhaps a reversal of what's being done to the 350/4s by WMR when they are refurbished (although I'm not sure of that, either, though that's the impression being given - i.e., that the first on the 350/4s will become identical to that in the other 350s).

No, it was moving first to two new partitioned off sections (with sliding doors) in the spaces just by the cabs, and making the original composite carriage as though it was built as standard throughout, with no partitions, no guards office, and all the wall and ceiling panelling between the two doorways sorted out to suit. All the remodelled trains I’ve been on look as though a really thorough job has been done.

 

[43096]

The cost of the refurb would have been financed by ''Angel Trains'' for both LNWR and SWR so that's why they are both very slimier!

LNWR = Grab poles, USB, PIS screens
SWR = Relocated first-class, Wireless charging tables, New first seats on 444

The class 185's are owned by ''Eversholt Rail'' hence why they had a better refurb!

Slimier?!

Whilst the ROSCO may fund it, they will recover it through increased lease charges over the life of the franchise. As ultimately the TOC ends up paying, the specification will be down to the TOC and what they can afford/have budgeted for. Nothing really to do with who the ROSCO is - they'll fund what work a TOC wants doing.

 

[Merle Haggard]

No, it was moving first to two new partitioned off sections (with sliding doors) in the spaces just by the cabs, and making the original composite carriage as though it was built as standard throughout, with no partitions, no guards office, and all the wall and ceiling panelling between the two doorways sorted out to suit. All the remodelled trains I’ve been on look as though a really thorough job has been done.

Thank you for that. It makes the WM approach (take the doors off the office and put two racks in there to fill the space) look really cheapskate. But no surprise...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thank you for that. It makes the WM approach (take the doors off the office and put two racks in there to fill the space) look really cheapskate. But no surprise...

Quite. That WMT would select the cheapest option for anything (even if substantially inferior to a not much more expensive option) is only to be expected.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Quite. That WMT would select the cheapest option for anything (even if substantially inferior to a not much more expensive option) is only to be expected.

I guess the old adage "know the price of everything and the value of nothing" is alive and well in the railway franchise world?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess the old adage "know the price of everything and the value of nothing" is alive and well in the railway franchise world?

I would say so, yes. That said, extra luggage capacity will be very useful on the 350s, and I see no particular problem with it having a wall at either end of it, so perhaps this was actually a sensible pragmatic choice. And as WMT don't do seat reservations and have no intention to do so, different units having slightly different layouts is no great issue.

 

[TH172341]

Got on my first refurbished unit (350110 I think it was) recently; seating miles better now (actually comfortable, improvement on the threadbare style) and smart which is what matters. Do concur that leaving the blue panelling in looked slightly odd. Not got the same impact the 185s have though.

Seems to be a variance in approach by LNWR and WMR; the latter with the 172 refurbishment has been very comprehensive, from lighting (which was commenced with before the full refurb) through to replacement of the internal side panelling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am surprised they haven't swapped the tubes for LED as it's a simple drop-in replacement. That said, I'm not sad about that as the railway only seems to buy stark bright white LEDs, which make for a less relaxing environment than the warm/cool white tubes used in Desiros.