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Steam on rail tours

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ChiefPlanner

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As I understand it, both anthracite and smokeless fuel burn too fiercely for the majority of British locos - maybe with the exception of GWR designs. You'd run the risk of burning out the firebox and grate - and with reduced ash you may have problems controlling the fire anyway as there would be no inert "bed" for the hot coals to rest on. That's why "steam coal" is high grade bituminous coal and not anthracite.
As for smokeless fuel.........that will only be available as long as someone mines the coal its made from, and is prepared to run a coking plant, with all the environmental hassles that brings. Of course you can make smokeless fuel by carbonizing heavy oil, but that is just totally wasteful.
But the reality is if the import demand for coal disappears, so will that for processed coals.


A very good point about the very hot capability of anthracite coal.

Sorry to be boring about this - my (Cockney) grandfather was a fireman in South Wales for a local colliery company which had a steam raising plant , burning the local product , - anthracite - for power generation. They used "Lancashire Boilers" - which I think had low PSI capabilty , and relied on a very thin bed , frequently fired on sparingly. The job must have been a nightmare as he spend the entire shift working his way down the stokehold , no doubt firing little and often - so despite my "good idea" - probably a non starter for main line operation.

I only know what my father told me , and he was a very young man when he observed his Dad as fireman - there is , no doubt good evidence on why anthracite (best used for slow burning) is a non starter.

Wonder if the "new" planned coking coal from Cumbria if that mine comes off , (it has planning permission) , might be an option.
 
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randyrippley

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Wonder if the "new" planned coking coal from Cumbria if that mine comes off , (it has planning permission) , might be an option.

I don't think so, the product from that mine is described as "hard" coking coal, which will put it on a par with anthracite. Low ash, high combustion temperature
 

Peter C

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ERTMS stopped the continuation of the popular Cambrian Coast daily steam about 10 years ago on a line which otherwise had sufficient capacity.
Oh OK. I don't know enough on this subject to comment further really :D

-Peter
 

DarloRich

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surely the real issues are going to be:
  • Availability of paths
  • source of good quality coal
  • safety of operation/operator
  • availability of rolling stock
 

EbbwJunction1

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surely the real issues are going to be:
  • Availability of paths
  • source of good quality coal
  • safety of operation/operator
  • availability of rolling stock

I don't disagree with any of these, but could a fifth one be
  • availability of drivers and firemen / women ?
 

Cowley

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I don't disagree with any of these, but could a fifth one be
  • availability of drivers and firemen / women ?
I think there’s been a fairly decent level of new steam crews being trained over the last couple of decades now. As long as there’s enthusiasm for steam then hopefully people will want to get involved with it.
I wonder if there are any footplate crew on the mainline still that worked on steam in BR days? I’m assuming not?
 

EbbwJunction1

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I think there’s been a fairly decent level of new steam crews being trained over the last couple of decades now. As long as there’s enthusiasm for steam then hopefully people will want to get involved with it.

Ah, that's good, and it answers my question - thanks.
 

Cowley

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Ah, that's good, and it answers my question - thanks.
No problem.
Digressing even more... Years ago (around 1991/92) Steven Cornish (of Special Trains) organised the training of new footplate crews on the Mid Hants where I used to volunteer in various different departments.
They hired a five coach train of mk1s for a week and learned the ropes over the steeply graded line. I can’t remember what loco was used (either 34105 Swanage, or Standard 4MT 76017), but I was asked to run the RMB for them while they were doing it.
It was quite the new way of doing things at the time and I think it marked a gearing up of training new steam crews in the southeast (bearing in mind that steam had only recently restarted in 3rd rail territory). These were guys that hadn’t worked on steam in BR days but were interested in getting involved with it.
The Mid Hants ‘Green Train’ used some of this group no doubt in the next few years.

It was a very enjoyable week for me and the guys on the train were fantastic.
 

The Bear

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No problem.
Digressing even more... Years ago (around 1991/92) Steven Cornish (of Special Trains) organised the training of new footplate crews on the Mid Hants where I used to volunteer in various different departments.
They hired a five coach train of mk1s for a week and learned the ropes over the steeply graded line. I can’t remember what loco was used (either 34105 Swanage, or Standard 4MT 76017), but I was asked to run the RMB for them while they were doing it.
It was quite the new way of doing things at the time and I think it marked a gearing up of training new steam crews in the southeast (bearing in mind that steam had only recently restarted in 3rd rail territory). These were guys that hadn’t worked on steam in BR days but were interested in getting involved with it.
The Mid Hants ‘Green Train’ used some of this group no doubt in the next few years.

It was a very enjoyable week for me and the guys on the train were fantastic.

In early 1993 BR hired std4 tank 80080 for training crews on steam. 80080 with support coach and three West Highland Line cream & green Mk1s did two round trips a day between Carlisle & Kirkby Stephen. From memory it was a flat fare of about £10, stopping at all stations it ran an extra/relief to the service trains.

Here's a video I found of it:
 

The Bear

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surely the real issues are going to be:
  • Availability of paths
  • source of good quality coal
  • safety of operation/operator
  • availability of rolling stock
  • availability of drivers and firemen / women ?

Another problem for charter operation in general which has probably been overlooked which will gradually start to creep in as the years go by, is the numbers of platform staff who are familiar with dispatching slam-door stock weather it be be fitted with CDL or not will start to deminish.


I think there’s been a fairly decent level of new steam crews being trained over the last couple of decades now.
I think it depends on operator but I don't think there's been as much training going on as you'd think.
 

eldomtom2

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Dug up the work done in the US on torrefied biomass - apparently successful tests have been made with standard gauge locomotives, so it's presumably something worth looking into for the UK industry: https://csrail.org/everett
 

Cowley

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In early 1993 BR hired std4 tank 80080 for training crews on steam. 80080 with support coach and three West Highland Line cream & green Mk1s did two round trips a day between Carlisle & Kirkby Stephen. From memory it was a flat fare of about £10, stopping at all stations it ran an extra/relief to the service trains.

Here's a video I found of it:
That’s a great find @The Bear thanks for that.
 
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