Caledonian Sleeper

[Mainliner]

Very much at third or fourth hand I believe they were included in the design in an early mix up on Spanish versus UK regulations, and that the resulting issues were one of the causes of significant delay to the build overall, but that's just gossip from over a year ago. I have no reputable source other than 'lounge talk'.

Coincidentally, the latest Tripadvisor review includes a reference to this: “Going to bed the fun started. We didn’t sleep at all during the trip. There was a loud never ending noise from the window. It was like going with high speed through a windtunnel. At first we thought it would be simply dealt with by just closing the window but that was impossible.

A member of staff apologised profoundly and told us that this complaint was a daily fact. It would never be solved since it was a well known design fault, since the windows were doubling as emergency exits”

 

[John Bishop]

Transport Secretary was getting a grilling in Scottish Parliament yesterday over the poor performance of CS. Not quite sure what the end result was, it apparently he was refusing to apologise over the debacle.

 

[47271]

Coincidentally, the latest Tripadvisor review includes a reference to this: “Going to bed the fun started. We didn’t sleep at all during the trip. There was a loud never ending noise from the window. It was like going with high speed through a windtunnel. At first we thought it would be simply dealt with by just closing the window but that was impossible.

A member of staff apologised profoundly and told us that this complaint was a daily fact. It would never be solved since it was a well known design fault, since the windows were doubling as emergency exits”

Possible, but I haven't heard that one before. Noise around the window is more likely to be caused by the aircon outlet which is located bizarrely on the bottom sill. This is is also the cause of a separate complaint from seated passengers who find one arm or another frozen during the journey.

In the mk3s, cold air was pumped in silently via the ceiling. I can only assume that it was cheaper to build with the duct running just below the windows.

 

[OvergroundMatt]

The managing director of Caledonian Sleeper is out, reports Richard Clinnick.

Ryan Flaherty has left his role as Managing Director at @CalSleeper - he’s moved to the defence side of Serco’s business.

 

[Goldfish62]

Possible, but I haven't heard that one before. Noise around the window is more likely to be caused by the aircon outlet which is located bizarrely on the bottom sill. This is is also the cause of a separate complaint from seated passengers who find one arm or another frozen during the journey.
.

The aircon vents on the bottom sill has been pretty much the default location on European rolling stock since aircon started being fitted. It's also present on the Eurostar Class 373.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Possible, but I haven't heard that one before. Noise around the window is more likely to be caused by the aircon outlet which is located bizarrely on the bottom sill. This is is also the cause of a separate complaint from seated passengers who find one arm or another frozen during the journey.

In the mk3s, cold air was pumped in silently via the ceiling. I can only assume that it was cheaper to build with the duct running just below the windows.

I doubt it was cheaper. It is very common practice on mainland European coaches, possibly because in a larger UIC coach the ceiling is far further away. It's probably just because that's what CAF LHCS does - the interior of the Mk5 does have a very European look to it unlike all the CAF DMUs and EMUs which look more British.

 

[BRX]

I doubt it was cheaper. It is very common practice on mainland European coaches, possibly because in a larger UIC coach the ceiling is far further away. It's probably just because that's what CAF LHCS does - the interior of the Mk5 does have a very European look to it unlike all the CAF DMUs and EMUs which look more British.

It may be less of an issue in UIC stock because of the extra width. With some UK stock, you end up with the windowsill being used as a kind of armrest, because the actual armrest has been squeezed away to nothing due to overall width obstructions. And if the windowsill becomes an armrest by default, then it's obviously not a great location to have pumping out cold (or hot) air.

 

[mde]

Transport Secretary was getting a grilling in Scottish Parliament yesterday over the poor performance of CS. Not quite sure what the end result was, it apparently he was refusing to apologise over the debacle.

Here's an extract from the Official Report (it's a bit lengthy) detailing the exchanges in question:

• 2. Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab):
  To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to reports that complaints about Caledonian sleeper services have increased by 221 per cent. (S5T-01953)
  
  
• The Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity (Michael Matheson):
  It is well documented that the 2019 introduction of the new Caledonian sleeper carriages was difficult for the operator and passengers. The manufacturer—CAF—did not provide sufficient vehicles in a service-ready state to allow for full service introduction.
  
  The increase in complaints is related to last year’s summer period, when new trains had reliability problems and the 1970s and 1980s rolling stock was in continued use on some routes. The vast majority of the rise in complaints was related to on-train quality issues that are being resolved. The Scottish Government continues to monitor Caledonian sleeper services closely. A performance improvement plan is being implemented following below-target performance and it is working well—we are already seeing performance improvement as a result.
  
  
• Colin Smyth:
  The cabinet secretary referred to the improvement plan for Serco Caledonian Sleepers. Given the failure of multiple improvement plans on the ScotRail franchise, why should anyone have any faith that this improvement plan will work? The Government has accepted that the Abellio ScotRail franchise that it awarded has failed. Is it not the case that the Government also got it wrong when it awarded this franchise?
  
  
• Michael Matheson:
  Colin Smyth is confusing two different things. The complaints relate to service provision on the Caledonian sleepers. The improvement plan does not specifically relate to service provision, but to wider issues around the Caledonian sleepers, including punctuality.
  
  The member will recognise that the data that was published last week for the autumn period showed a significant improvement in ScotRail services and their punctuality, which was a direct consequence of the remedial plan that was put in place.
  
  However, the improvement plan in this matter does not relate to complaints about on-service matters. It is about punctuality and wider issues in the service, and is to make sure that there are improvements, which we are already starting to see happen.
  
  
• Colin Smyth:
  It is still not clear how that improvement plan will work, when previous improvement plans that were instigated by the Government and our rail services failed miserably.
  
  The reality is that complaints are up by 221 per cent and the performance level today—not in the summer—is closer to breach than to target on the Serco services. Emergency exit windows recently would not open; trains are overshooting platforms; services were introduced a year late in the north of Scotland; and staff are walking out due to high stress levels and workload.
  
  Surely the cabinet secretary accepts that the current service is not good enough? Will he apologise to the passengers who are putting up with an inferior sleeper service?
  
  
• Michael Matheson:
  I reiterate that the purpose behind improvement plans is to see improvements, and we are already seeing improvements in punctuality and in wider service provision. Alongside that, there is a reduction in the level of complaints from passengers about on-board service provision, as a result of actions that have been taken to close out some technical issues on the new rolling stock. The overall picture is one of improvement, which I very much welcome. I recognise that staff are working very hard to address the deficiencies and challenges that are associated with the introduction of new rolling stock. The focus is on making sure that the improvements are sustained and will continue.
  
  
• Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con):
  This iconic service has the potential to improve tourism business and connectivity and help us to meet our climate objectives. It is clear that there are problems and that many customers are unhappy with both the recliner and cabin services. Given that the trains may be around for decades, what conversations has the cabinet secretary had with the current operator on the potential for improvements or retrospective upgrades to the CAF fleet, that may be able to be installed to improve the passenger experience? Has the operator shown any desire or willingness to engage in retrospective upgrades to the service that may make more customers happier and more likely to recommend it to others?
  
  
• Michael Matheson:
  A range of work is being undertaken. I have engaged not only with Serco but with CAF senior executives on those matters and the specific problems that have been experienced with the introduction of the new rolling stock. A range of measures are being taken forward as a result, including a rolling programme of retrospective technical work on the new rolling stock by CAF to close out on-going issues that have had an impact on the passenger experience. Good progress has been made on that matter, according to Serco Caledonian Sleepers. It expects that work to be completed in the next couple of months, which will ensure that all the technical issues that have had an impact on the passenger experience will have been closed out. Alongside that, it has taken the opportunity to review a number of the arrangements that it has in place, such as for cleaning and laundry services, and that has also resulted in improvements. The picture over the past couple of months is one of improvement and the focus must be on making sure that that is sustained and built on.
  
  
• Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP):
  I had occasion to use the Caledonian sleeper when I travelled south on 23 October and returned the following day. There was a bit of alarm on my part when one of the services arrived 22 minutes early, because I thought that I had done something wrong. Will the cabinet secretary join me in congratulating the staff on board the Caledonian sleepers? I found the on-board service to be beyond complaint. The breakfast was absolutely magnificent, and I know that other passengers on those two journeys shared my delight at the new service.
  
  
• Michael Matheson:
  Stewart Stevenson’s experience is a very good advert for using the Caledonian sleepers. It is important that we recognise the progress that is being made. It might be of interest to members that, since action has been taken to address a number of issues, there has been an increase in sales and train occupancy levels continue to grow. Since the new year, the number of bookings for forward sales on the Caledonian sleepers has been at record levels. Yesterday, there were the highest ever daily sales figures for the Caledonian sleepers, which is very encouraging, and there has been a particular increase in the number of international bookings being made for the services. Since the introduction of the new trains in October, journeys have increased by 20.8 per cent compared with the same period in the previous year.
  
  There is a real appetite to make use of the service, and it is attracting new people. We want to ensure that the service is of the highest possible standard and that it complies with the provisions that are set out in the franchise agreement. The focus is on achieving that. The figures of late demonstrate that the improvements that we have seen in recent months are starting to reap benefits.
  
  
• John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green):
  We all want everyone to enjoy the same experience that Mr Stevenson enjoyed. Personally, I would like to see that happen in the public sector rather than with that particular pernicious company.
  
  As of this morning, there are on-going issues with the doors to the berths not opening. It takes multiple attempts to get people in, and people get shut in and shut out. The cabinet secretary will be aware that the emergency exit windows are locked, which has already been alluded to. We are assured that the windows themselves are not a primary means of egress during an emergency but, coupled with the problems with the doors, they represent a significant health and safety risk. When will those issues be rectified?
  
  
• Michael Matheson:
  That relates to the work that Serco Caledonian Sleepers is taking forward with CAF and that is expected to be completed over the next couple of months. It is important to reassure members that the Office of Rail and Road has oversight of any actions taken by Serco Caledonian Sleepers relating to safety matters on the vehicles. My understanding is that the ORR is satisfied with the actions that are being taken to address the issue with the emergency windows, to which John Finnie referred. The ORR has responsibility over the safety arrangements on the Caledonian sleeper. The ORR must be satisfied with the actions that are taken, and my understanding is that it is satisfied with the measures that are being put in place.
  
  
• Angus MacDonald (Falkirk East) (SNP):
  I welcome the measures that are being taken to speed up the handling of complaints. Given that there has continued to be an increase in sales for the service, as the cabinet secretary said in his response to Stewart Stevenson, will he outline what steps are being taken to ensure that on-board service conditions and quality are maintained?
  
  
• Michael Matheson:
  Specific measures that are being taken forward include Serco Caledonian Sleepers’ work with its staff to continue its operational excellence training programme, which was agreed with the trade unions. Additional on-board staff have been recruited to manage the transition to the new fleet. As I mentioned, work is being done with the manufacturer, CAF, to close out any residual on-train defects. That work is expected to be completed in the next couple of months.
  
  Additionally, since the introduction of the new trains, Serco Caledonian Sleepers has been reviewing some aspects of its supply chain, including catering and cleaning supplies. We have seen the positive impacts of that work. Alongside that, Serco Caledonian Sleepers is engaged directly with Transport Scotland’s service quality incentive regime—SQUIRE—which is the inspection team. It is using the team’s feedback to continue to focus on areas of improvement.
  

 

[Bletchleyite]

It may be less of an issue in UIC stock because of the extra width. With some UK stock, you end up with the windowsill being used as a kind of armrest, because the actual armrest has been squeezed away to nothing due to overall width obstructions. And if the windowsill becomes an armrest by default, then it's obviously not a great location to have pumping out cold (or hot) air.

Though that doesn't really apply to the Caledonian Sleeper seated coaches as they are basically all First Class.

 

[Struner]

The Sleeper’s Ross Flaherty has resigned. Not sure if it will help tho? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-boss-to-quit-post-at-much-criticised-service

The boss of the Caledonian Sleeper train has resigned from his post a day after the Scottish transport secretary said faults with the embattled rail service would take another two months to fix.

Ryan Flaherty, who had been managing director of the London-to-Scotland sleeper service for almost two years, announced on Wednesday that he would leave the position as soon as a successor had been appointed.

Serco, the outsourcing company that runs the much-criticised franchise service, said Flaherty was leaving for family reasons and would move to a different job within the company, in south-west England, closer to his home.

The announcement of Flaherty’s decision to stand down came a day after the Scottish transport secretary, Michael Matheson, told MSPs that he had engaged directly with Serco bosses about ongoing faults with the £150m fleet of new sleeper carriages made by the Spanish train company CAF.

Matheson said it would take another “couple of months” to fix the numerous faults that have plagued the sleeper service since Serco relaunched the train as a luxury “hotel on wheels”.

The new train, which was launched in April 2019, has been beset with difficulties including severe delays, midnight evacuations, botched reservations, broken air conditioning and a fault that led to emergency exit windows being locked shut.


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The Scottish transport secretary, Michael Matheson, answers questions on rail services in the Scottish parliament. Photograph: Ken Jack/Getty Images
The Caledonian Sleeper was last week named by the Office of Rail and Road as the UK’s most-complained about rail service. Figures showed the train had 394 complaints per 100,000 journeys between July and September 2019 – up 221% from the same period in 2018.


Stressed sleeper train staff also voted to strike, alleging that Serco bosses had ignored “serious concerns raised by staff that have ruined working lives and placed the workforce under intolerable pressure”.

Matheson said: “Not only have I engaged with Serco on this matter, I have also engaged directly with senior executives within CAF around the specific problems which have been experienced with the introduction of the new rolling stock. There are a range of measures which have been taken as a result of that.

“There has been a rolling programme of retrospective technical work that has been undertaken on the new rolling stock by CAF.”

Matheson said good progress had been made in addressing the faults, but that Serco expected it to take a couple of months until work was completed to “ensure all the technical issues which have had an impact on the passenger experience have been closed out.”

John Whitehurst, Serco’s managing director for transport, said: “Ryan has led Serco Caledonian Sleeper during a transformational period. Under his leadership, the business is well positioned for growth, having successfully introduced a £150m fleet of new trains.

“We’re extremely pleased that he will remain with Serco in a new role, having taken the decision to return to the south of England for family reasons.”

 

[47271]

Fair enough, I'd never thought about it much when I've been on trains in Europe.

Anyway, if it's making a level of noise that's keeping people awake or freezing their arms then it's an unsuitable design.

The aircon vents on the bottom sill has been pretty much the default location on European rolling stock since aircon started being fitted. It's also present on the Eurostar Class 373.

 

[alangla]

I don’t think Nightstar stock had aircon under the window. It’s been a while since I was last on one (Quebec City to Montreal) but I certainly don’t remember anything like that & the lounge car photo here- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_(railcar) doesn’t seem to show vents there.

 

[Flying Snail]

I don’t think Nightstar stock had aircon under the window. It’s been a while since I was last on one (Quebec City to Montreal) but I certainly don’t remember anything like that & the lounge car photo here- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_(railcar) doesn’t seem to show vents there.

"The cars were built by Metro Cammell in the mid-1990s... They are based on the British Rail Mark 4 design"

So no reason they would have continental style window AC vents then.

The overhead vents can be clearly seen in some of those photos.


Prior to the CAF Mk5 the only stock in the UK built with window ledge vents was the original Eurostar sets and the Irish Rail/NIR Enterprise stock.

The Irish Rail CAF built coach sets used on Dublin - Cork also have window vents. They also had lousy ride quality when first introduced and despite remedial work never came close to matching the ride quality of the BR Mk3 coches they replaced.

 

[47271]

So the moral is, don't buy stock from CAF, it's rickety and is generally built to standards totally unsuited to UK or Irish use.

Too late.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So the moral is, don't buy stock from CAF, it's rickety and is generally built to standards totally unsuited to UK or Irish use.

Too late.

I've been on a TPE Mk5a (admittedly in 1st) and I think it's possibly the nicest thing on the UK rails, if that helps. The ride and build quality are poor, though.

And I'm not a loco nut.

 

[Flying Snail]

I've been on a TPE Mk5a (admittedly in 1st) and I think it's possibly the nicest thing on the UK rails, if that helps. The ride and build quality are poor, though.

And I'm not a loco nut.

So poor ride, build quality and some of the most uncomfortable seats installed on any long distance train anywhere; how the hell is it "the nicest"?

 

[Taunton]

stock from CAF, it's rickety and is generally built to standards totally unsuited to UK or Irish use.

Probably the lowest bid though. Is anything else important to UK purchasers?

 

[87electric]

Anyone know the current 1M11 loco, attached to 1C11 right now?

 

[TimboM]

Anyone know the current 1M11 loco, attached to 1C11 right now?

92043 is on 1M11 tonight

 

[TimboM]

Probably the lowest bid though. Is anything else important to UK purchasers?

Lowest or only? There were very few companies from what I recall prepared to even bid for such a low-volume, highly bespoke production run.

The Sleeper’s Ross Flaherty has resigned.

I wouldn't describe still being employed by Serco Group and moving to another area of the business to be nearer his family as "resigning"??

 

[adrock1976]

1M16 Inverness - Euston was double headed by 66706+73968 as far as Edinburgh Waverley.

The loco from Edinburgh to London was 92010.

 

[87electric]

92043 is on 1M11 tonight

Thank you for that.

 

[LeylandLen]

1S25 Euston Scotland being diverted via ECML tonight due to WCML closed near Lancaster , OHLE probs.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

1S25 Euston Scotland being diverted via ECML tonight due to WCML closed near Lancaster , OHLE probs.

Indeed. See this thread for more details of the problems - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wires-down-at-hest-bank.198505/

 

[6Z09]

1S25 Euston Scotland being diverted via ECML tonight due to WCML closed near Lancaster , OHLE probs.

All the rest going WCML, waiting on the line being opened!
Currently predicted for 0500.

 

[Bungle965]

All the rest going WCML, waiting on the line being opened!
Currently predicted for 0500.

Last I heard they had found more issues so that time was likely to slip...
Sam

 

[BRX]

1S25 Euston Scotland being diverted via ECML tonight due to WCML closed near Lancaster , OHLE probs.

Interesting/surprising that it was possible to arrange this at such short notice.

 

[_toommm_]

Last I heard they had found more issues so that time was likely to slip...
Sam

07:00 at this point; although I'm sure that will get pushed back once there's first daylight.

 

[side effect]

1m11 still at Oxenholme and 1s26 stuck in Barton and Broughton lay by if that's what you call it.

 

[marks87]

The Northbound Highlander hasn't fared too bad, all things considered - diverting via the ECML has left it "only" around an hour late into all three destinations.

The Lowlander not so good. Running only to Glasgow, and currently 178L around Beattock.