Questions for people who have used e-tickets

[35B]

He has an emotional need for a credit card sized piece of card, as distinct from a folded piece of A4 which could be easily placed in the notes section of his wallet and actually contains more information about his journey?

Seriously?

No, he reacts badly to change and what is unfamiliar; deafness means that explaining the situation is disproportionately difficult and neither I nor my wife have the appetite to take him through the difference. The orange ticket is clearly produced by "the railway" and therefore "official"; a self-printed PDF does not have the same standing.

As an aside, though not relevant in his specific case (he carries his itinerary with him), I do not share your view of the ease of carrying a folded sheet of A4 in my wallet.

I think for "emotional need," read, "can't cope with change." Not exactly an unusual trait amongst the older, anxious, and railway enthusiast communities.

Precisely.

 

[ashkeba]

He has an emotional need for a credit card sized piece of card, as distinct from a folded piece of A4 which could be easily placed in the notes section of his wallet and actually contains more information about his journey?

It doesn't really matter. According to above posts, some operators are already printing e-ticket barcodes onto the credit card sized tickets and I expect more will soon follow. Before long, the card tickets will almost be e-tickets that you are paying extra to have printed by special printers. Users have little to worry about as long as they are happy to keep paying the extra cost, which will increase per ticket as the printers are used less, less card stock is ordered in, and so on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, he reacts badly to change and what is unfamiliar; deafness means that explaining the situation is disproportionately difficult and neither I nor my wife have the appetite to take him through the difference. The orange ticket is clearly produced by "the railway" and therefore "official"; a self-printed PDF does not have the same standing.

I'm sorry, but that really is not a good reason to retain credit card sized tickets once they have outlived their wider usefulness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It doesn't really matter. According to above posts, some operators are already printing e-ticket barcodes onto the credit card sized tickets and I expect more will soon follow. Before long, the card tickets will almost be e-tickets that you are paying extra to have printed by special printers. They have little to worry about as long as they are happy to keep paying the extra cost.

As mentioned I do think it should be possible, for a small fee (maybe £5), to log into your account with any accredited ticket vendor at a station and reprint an e-ticket. That would completely "square the circle".

I would suggest it reprints as a barcode, then the railway can get rid of the costly moving parts in barrier ticket readers to replace with solid state barcode readers.

 

[35B]

I'm sure @35B could assist him in coping with what would be an extremely minor change. Nobody is saying he has to use a smartphone or indeed any mobile phone of any kind, simply switch to a different sized piece of paper that operates barriers differently.

You under-estimate the significance of minor change to some people, and the effect it has on them. For a change in ticketing implementation that is not universally advantageous, the costs of change outweigh the benefits.

You also focus on a specific example I have given about where the transition is not positive. I gave other examples in my earlier note showing that the advantages of migrating away from orange tickets are finely balanced, and depend on circumstance. I picked up an orange TOD for myself this morning, while making another journey on the eTicket that I had chosen to use. One size does not fit all.

 

[35B]

As mentioned I do think it should be possible, for a small fee (maybe £5), to log into your account with any accredited ticket vendor at a station and reprint an e-ticket. That would completely "square the circle".

I would suggest it reprints as a barcode, then the railway can get rid of the costly moving parts in barrier ticket readers to replace with solid state barcode readers.

And you wonder why "the railway" has a reputation for overcharging!

 

[Bletchleyite]

For a change in ticketing implementation that is not universally advantageous, the costs of change outweigh the benefits.

I don't agree. And I believe, accordingly, there is a plan, though I don't know how far off, to abolish ToD. (It has been mentioned on here before).

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I think for "emotional need," read, "can't cope with change." Not exactly an unusual trait amongst the older, anxious, and railway enthusiast communities.

I think some on this thread have adapted a rather sneering tone against those of us who prefer the reliability of paper tickets over the fragility of technology-dependent e-tickets. It's not a question of "can't cope with change", it's more "no need to change". As I said earlier, e-tickets are solving a problem that simply doen't exist!

 

[sheff1]

I think some on this thread have adapted a rather sneering tone against those of us who prefer the reliability of paper tickets over the fragility of technology-dependent e-tickets.

Indeed. The same tone is used against those who prefer to use cash rather than card/contactless.

Some people do not wish to use paper tickets or cash and that is their valid choice. Why they then seemingly seek to impose their choice on everyone else is unclear.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. The same tone is used against those who prefer to use cash rather than card/contactless.

Some people do not wish to use paper tickets or cash and that is their valid choice. Why they then seemingly seek to impose their choice on everyone else is unclear.

Because both cash and paper tickets are costly to process/provide. Are you willing to pay extra to continue using them?

 

[Mathew S]

I think some on this thread have adapted a rather sneering tone against those of us who prefer the reliability of paper tickets over the fragility of technology-dependent e-tickets. It's not a question of "can't cope with change", it's more "no need to change". As I said earlier, e-tickets are solving a problem that simply doen't exist!

It was not my intention at all to come across as sneering, and I appologise profusely if I did. I was just trying to make the point that seemingly small changes like this are, for some people, a big deal - whether it's because they do struggle to cope with change, or becuase they don't see any need for change in the first place.

I do disagree with you when you say there isn't a problem, though. Magnetic stripe paper tickets increasingly can't offer the range of things that, as a customer of the railway, I want from my ticket. Examples include price capping, and pay as you go travel, to name just two things for which either e-ticketing or ITSO is needed. I also don't want to have to carry around a load of paper tickets. I don't even carry a wallet anymore, because I don't need one. All I regularly carry on my person is my phone, housekeys, work ID, and my ITSO card (and if I could get my season ticket as an e-ticket, I wouldn't even need that). I don't even routinely carry a bank card anymore.

 

[ashkeba]

I think some on this thread have adapted a rather sneering tone against those of us who prefer the reliability of paper tickets over the fragility of technology-dependent e-tickets. It's not a question of "can't cope with change", it's more "no need to change". As I said earlier, e-tickets are solving a problem that simply doen't exist!

I think that is getting "reliability" and "fragility" backwards for those of us who have a passing familiarity with how to operate electronic devices but have had paper tickets (especially bog roll) literally fall apart due to walking through unexpected heavy rain. Most paper tickets are wasteful single-use items which are more expensive to handle, so there is a problem existing there!

 

[yorksrob]

It's nice to see that traditional tickets are winning in the pole. There seem to be more of us who prefer simple reliability to technological hocus pocus

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm curious as to why the rail industry has gone for the Apple-pkpass-format and seemingly not integrated at all with Google Pay (which seems to natively support transit passes) yet.

We offer both.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I really don't get this technology dependent e-ticket argument against e-tickets. Given that you're booking online you are 3/4 of the way there. I hope most people would own a printer so they can have their ticker reassuringly in their hand in seconds without a trip to collect it. You lose your ticket , CCST it's tough possibly leaving you hundreds of pounds out of pocket. With an e-Ticket simply download it to a different device or print another. You have to get up early in the morning to fool DORIS.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I have voted for no preference, as my preference varies depending on circumstances. E-tickets work well for me, and the implementation into Apple wallet suits me well, though the inability of some barcode readers to see through the screen protector on my phone is a niggle. However, for claiming expenses, the TOD receipt is sometimes more useful and easier to upload into my employer's expenses system (@Wallsendmag may want to consider how the downloaded images (don't) work when forwarded into Concur!).

Where e-tickets are less good is when travelling with others in a party. At that point, having an orange ticket per person (especially with gated barriers) is far easier than having the e-ticket.

I would deeply oppose moving to no orange tickets, however. I book travel for an elderly friend who is something of a worrier. Orange tickets provide him with tangible and easily carried proof of his journey; asking him to use PDFs or a ticket held on his phone is a conversation I do not relish given his reaction to uncertainty.

Screen shot the relevant part of "My Account"

 

[infobleep]

I don't agree. And I believe, accordingly, there is a plan, though I don't know how far off, to abolish ToD. (It has been mentioned on here before).

I wonder how long it takes to make a fare between two stations available as an e-ticket?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder how long it takes to make a fare between two stations available as an e-ticket?

TfL is the big problem as they won't install barcode readers. But TBH the solution could well just be to knock the price of an Oyster/contactless Zone 1 single off the fares and stop giving the Tube journey for free. Outboundary Travelcards are walk-up fares and need not be purchased in advance. Sorted.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I really don't get this technology dependent e-ticket argument against e-tickets. Given that you're booking online you are 3/4 of the way there. I hope most people would own a printer so they can have their ticket reassuringly in their hand in seconds without a trip to collect it.
...

I will preface the following by saying that I am neither a Luddite, nor do I offer this comment by way of acting as devil's advocate...

Have you ever owned a home printer?!

 

[yorkie]

I would deeply oppose moving to no orange tickets, however. I book travel for an elderly friend who is something of a worrier. Orange tickets provide him with tangible and easily carried proof of his journey; asking him to use PDFs or a ticket held on his phone is a conversation I do not relish given his reaction to uncertainty.

There is nothing to stop you giving them a printout.

Everything will be an e-ticket at some point; the question will then be whether or not you choose to print them.

Those who voted against e-tickets haven't yet given a good explanation why they don't work for them though. The argument appears to be that some people insist on a printout, but don't have easy access to a printer? So that's more of an argument to say that TOD collection machines should be replaced with machines that print e-tickets, surely? The problem would be who pays for them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I will preface the following by saying that I am neither a Luddite, nor do I offer this comment by way of acting as devil's advocate...

Have you ever owned a home printer?!

Yes, I have one (a mid-priced HP all-in-one inkjet), and it is generally reliable. Don't buy cheap rubbish and you will usually find that they work fine. Though I don't think I've ever printed an e-ticket (though I have done many airline boarding cards), I use them on my phone.

I would generally suggest:
1. Buy one that has the printhead on the cartridge. Those which have it separate tend to end up clogging, and replacement costs more than a new printer, particularly if you use cheap ink.
2. Don't use cheap ink. If you're not printing much, as most people won't, the high cost of cartridges doesn't overly matter. If you are printing much, buy a laser printer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So that's more of an argument to say that TOD collection machines should be replaced with machines that print e-tickets, surely? The problem would be who pays for them.

TVMs aren't going to go away entirely, people will still need to purchase tickets for same-day travel. The same TVMs could reprint e-tickets, just as they will most probably issue them to start with (i.e. print card with barcodes on it instead of magstripes, and write the ticket into the database).

 

[sheff1]

Those who voted against e-tickets haven't yet given a good explanation why they don't work for them though.

Apologies that you did not find my explanation regarding UK e-tickets in post #25 a good one ..... unfortunately it is the only one I have !

As I also mentioned in that post, e-tickets work fine for me in countries where they have been implemented efficiently and inspecting staff do not make up their own requirements as to how to use them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I also mentioned in that post, e-tickets work fine for me in countries where they have been implemented efficiently and inspecting staff do not make up their own requirements as to how to use them.

That would be helped were there a simple single standard for them - so get rid of m-tickets! Though sadly there will seemingly always be railway staff who like to do their job in a manner that advertises the benefits of destaffing.

@yorkie I'm pleased to see they are being abolished, is there a timescale yet?

 

[island]

Apologies that you did not find my explanation regarding UK e-tickets in post #25 a good one ..... unfortunately it is the only one I have !

As I also mentioned in that post, e-tickets work fine for me in countries where they have been implemented efficiently and inspecting staff do not make up their own requirements as to how to use them.

As well as the points I mentioned upthread, amending advance tickets is considerably more difficult with e-tickets than traditional tickets.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I will preface the following by saying that I am neither a Luddite, nor do I offer this comment by way of acting as devil's advocate...

Have you ever owned a home printer?!

I have a laser printer and a scanner printer so two currently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As well as the points I mentioned upthread, amending advance tickets is considerably more difficult with e-tickets than traditional tickets.

Interestingly it's part of the Avanti franchise agreement to change that, i.e. you will be able to change an Avanti booked e-ticket by any of their sales channels.

It should be easier if you have a smartphone at least - pull up the app and change the ticket there.

 

[Wallsendmag]

TVMs aren't going to go away entirely, people will still need to purchase tickets for same-day travel. The same TVMs could reprint e-tickets, just as they will most probably issue them to start with (i.e. print card with barcodes on it instead of magstripes, and write the ticket into the database).

This is a problem we are tackling now, problem is we are driven by third parties. However much we would like to move away from CCST we don't control the fulfillment method so need to have ToD available on CCST.

 

[Wallsendmag]

As well as the points I mentioned upthread, amending advance tickets is considerably more difficult with e-tickets than traditional tickets.

Currently but this will change very soon

 

[43096]

Going back ton the original question, I've used e-Tickets both here and abroad. Particularly useful if you want to extend a journey when on the train or if you want to use an operator that is all or mostly "booked train only" with no walk up tickets (e.g. Amtrak or FLIX).