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East Midlands Railway using two coach trains on Crewe to Derby line

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thenorthern

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Over the past few weeks I have noticed East Midlands Railway has started using two coach trains on the Crewe to Derby Line rather than the old system which was to use 3 single class 153s throughout the day until the early evening when one of them would be replaced with a Class 158.

Has there been an allocation change and will this be permanent?
 
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Bletchleyite

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Unless there is a dispensation, Class 153s are not, because of PRM-TSI, allowed to work alone any more[1]. So this is indeed permanent.

Long term it'll be 2-car Class 170s.

[1] You could fit a PRM toilet and wheelchair spaces but then you'd lose half the seats. You could remove the toilet, but that would be, er, inconvenient.
 

thenorthern

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Unless there is a dispensation, Class 153s are not, because of PRM-TSI, allowed to work alone any more[1]. So this is indeed permanent.

Long term it'll be 2-car Class 170s.

[1] You could fit a PRM toilet and wheelchair spaces but then you'd lose half the seats. You could remove the toilet, but that would be, er, inconvenient.

There were rumors that Class 153s were going to be converted back to Class 155s a couple of years ago which would make sense with PRM-TSI rules.
 

WillPS

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Rumours scotched straight away. Too costly for one thing
No reason they couldn't be semi-permanently coupled with the cabs in disuse though, like all the non-150001/150002 3-car 150 formations there have been past and present.
 

Andy Pacer

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Unless there is a dispensation, Class 153s are not, because of PRM-TSI, allowed to work alone any more[1]. So this is indeed permanent.

They do, in fact, have dispensation on the Crewe to Derby route, but they had also said that from the December timetable change there shouldn't be any scheduled 1 car trains in operation, so likely a bit of both.
 

Qwerty133

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Unless there is a dispensation, Class 153s are not, because of PRM-TSI, allowed to work alone any more[1]. So this is indeed permanent.

Long term it'll be 2-car Class 170s.

[1] You could fit a PRM toilet and wheelchair spaces but then you'd lose half the seats. You could remove the toilet, but that would be, er, inconvenient.
There is a dispensation in place for the Crewe route, and even if there wasn't there appears to be a 2x153 formation on a route without dispensation this afternoon.
 

RealTrains07

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I thought the rules were the 153s could continue to operate attached to a unit already PRM compliant but then again not enough 156s to go round unfortunately
 

Bletchleyite

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I thought the rules were the 153s could continue to operate attached to a unit already PRM compliant but then again not enough 156s to go round unfortunately

Yes, that's right, they can be coupled to one or more PRM compliant units. Though as others have said it seems there is a dispensation here.
 

Bacon_BMW

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How about ECS moves? Can they be used as single cars or sets of just 153s if they are out of service? I would think that would make sense.
 

Ianno87

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I’d think the cost would be worth it for at least a few of them just for a little more freedom.

Undortunately, the people who actually have to pay for it don't.

How about ECS moves? Can they be used as single cars or sets of just 153s if they are out of service? I would think that would make sense.

Don't see why not...but wouldn't often be of any usefulness.
 

Lincoln

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Peter Wilkinson, the chap who is best friends with many a train driver, has had his dispensation letters posted on the DfT website. For completeness they are also attached to this post.

The only issue at hand is when they are run in passenger carrying service. They can be considered no different to a coal wagon when run as empty stock on their own, as nobody who the regulations apply to will be on board.

The dispensation applies to: 153302, 153308, 153311, 153313, 153318, 153319, 153321, 153355, 153357, 153368, 153372, 153374, 153376, 153381, 153382, 153383, 153384 and 153385.

Peter Wilkinson to EMR Angel Trains ORR said:
Dear [Redacted],

The Railways (Interoperability) Regulations 2011 – Class 153 EMR - 2020 accessibility deadline

Regulation 45 of the Railways (Interoperability) Regulations 20111 (RIR 2011) makes it unlawful for a passenger rail vehicle to be used in service on the trans-European rail system in the UK after 31 December 2019 unless it complies with the current or future versions of the Technical Specification for Interoperability - Persons with Reduced Mobility (PRM TSI) (and/or defined domestic accessibility standards2) except to the extent that:
  1. a derogation from part of the PRM TSI has been granted under Regulation 14 of RIR 2011;
  2. a determination that part of the PRM TSI does not apply has been made under Regulation 13(8) of RIR 2011; or
  3. a dispensation that part of the PRM TSI does not apply has been granted under Regulation 46 of RIR 2011.
This is a dispensation (effective from the date of this letter) made under Regulation 46(4) of the RIR 2011, granting that the vehicles listed in Annex A, which form the trains known as Class 153 need not comply after 31 December 2019 with those parts of the PRM TSI 2008 listed in Annex B. This follows consultation with DPTAC3 and is subject to compliance with the following conditions:
  1. The dispensation applies to operation of the vehicles by East Midlands Railway only and restricts operation so that they are only scheduled to operate when coupled with compliant units - unless operated on the routes in Annex C;
  2. The existing level of accessibility standards compliance is maintained;
  3. The operator reports quarterly (from 1 January 2020 until the dispensation expires) to the Secretary of State to update on passenger satisfaction with the vehicles and progress on the replacement vehicle cascade from the timetable.
  4. The permission granted by this dispensation to East Midlands Railway expires at 23.59 on 31 December 2020.
For the avoidance of doubt, a separate derogation or determination made under point a) or b) above would be required for any vehicle listed in Annex A that undergoes an upgrade or renewal that requires an authorisation under RIR 2011 after this dispensation is granted.

I have copied this dispensation to Angel Trains Limited and the ORR for their information.

Yours sincerely,
Peter Wilkinson
signed by the authority of the Secretary of State

Annex A

Units
153302
153308
153318
153319
153355
153357
153368
153372
153374
153382

Annex B

Omitted for brevity.

Annex C
  • Doncaster to Peterborough
  • Newark to Grimsby
  • Derby to Crewe
  1. SI 3066/2011
  2. The Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2001 or Part 1 of Schedule 1 to the Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Non-Interoperable Rail System) Regulations 2010
  3. The Disabled Persons' Transport Advisory Committee
 

Attachments

  • emr-class-153-pb-2020-dispensation-letter.pdf
    86.7 KB · Views: 7
  • emr-class-153-angel-2020-dispensation-letter.pdf
    85.1 KB · Views: 4

vlad

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Hang on - 2-coach trains permanently on the Crewe to Derby line? o_O

This has changed what was usual so much that it must be ushering in the end of the world, or something similar....
 

InOban

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Considering that 40+ years ago when my wife and I were users of that service, heading to Derby from Glasgow, it was a busy two coach train....
 

Bletchleyite

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Considering that 40+ years ago when my wife and I were users of that service, heading to Derby from Glasgow, it was a busy two coach train....

40+ years ago it would presumably have been a 2-car heritage DMU, with 18m vehicles, 3+2 bench seating and a third of one of them taken up with a guard's van. So a modern 2x23m unit offers a whackload more space even if not substantially more actual seats!
 

Baxenden Bank

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Hang on - 2-coach trains permanently on the Crewe to Derby line? o_O

This has changed what was usual so much that it must be ushering in the end of the world, or something similar....
Yes.
Eventually Greater Anglia will have some trains which work properly, allowing release of their 156's. The 156's were meant to transfer to EMR to replace 153's at the turn of the year. Had all been well, no 153's would have been operating singly now.

I fail to get excited about the use of double 153's. Twice as many cramped seats in a decrepit, mechanically life-expired wheelbarrow is no great improvement. Fasten them together permanently, remove several rows of seats and re-space the remainder and they may be worth taking a trip on.
 

Bletchleyite

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I fail to get excited about the use of double 153's. Twice as many cramped seats in a decrepit, mechanically life-expired wheelbarrow is no great improvement. Fasten them together permanently, remove several rows of seats and re-space the remainder and they may be worth taking a trip on.

At least if you have two 153s there are then 24 seats it is possible to sit in rather than 12. (There are 6 tables per coach, right? These are so tightly spaced that only 2 out of the 4 seats are useful, though, ideally people sitting diagonally opposite one another).
 

Failed Unit

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Yes.
Eventually Greater Anglia will have some trains which work properly, allowing release of their 156's. The 156's were meant to transfer to EMR to replace 153's at the turn of the year. Had all been well, no 153's would have been operating singly now.

I fail to get excited about the use of double 153's. Twice as many cramped seats in a decrepit, mechanically life-expired wheelbarrow is no great improvement. Fasten them together permanently, remove several rows of seats and re-space the remainder and they may be worth taking a trip on.
Yep same in Lincolnshire. 2x 153 or 156s on all routes. But the 153s unfortunately are here to stay while EMR bail out greater Anglia. Personally I would have demanded the 156s and sent the 153s to them. (Unless driver knowledge has lapsed).
 

Sprinter107

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40+ years ago it would presumably have been a 2-car heritage DMU, with 18m vehicles, 3+2 bench seating and a third of one of them taken up with a guard's van. So a modern 2x23m unit offers a whackload more space even if not substantially more actual seats!
It wouldve been a three car class 120. Working a Crewe to Lincoln train.
 

Merthyr Imp

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With First Class almost until they were replaced by Sprinters

I used to travel on them regularly between Nottingham and Lincoln and the First Class area had been downgraded for some years before they were replaced, although I can't remember exactly when. I would always try if possible to make use of the 2+1 former First area with the more comfortable seats.

Also, some years before the end of them the centre trailer cars had been replaced (again, I can't remember when) by Metro-Cammell trailer cars - and I used to try and avoid them!
 

OrangeJuice

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At least if you have two 153s there are then 24 seats it is possible to sit in rather than 12. (There are 6 tables per coach, right? These are so tightly spaced that only 2 out of the 4 seats are useful, though, ideally people sitting diagonally opposite one another).

From many years of commuting Crewe to Derby there are 2 decent tables per coach and in most (although annoyingly not all) one airline row of 'extra legroom' seats near the 'wheelchair' area that are acceptable
 

ashworth

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It wouldve been a three car class 120. Working a Crewe to Lincoln train.

I remember them so well from the the 1970’s when I was at college and used to travel regularly between Lowdham and Derby. I remember the comfortable grey seats and the orange curtains. Amazing that it could have been three cars in those days when today EMR are planning on mainly running 2 car 170’s and Northern are introducing so many 2 car 195’s.

An hourly Crewe to Lincoln service which ran in those days was so much more useful than what we have today. It provided a through train from Nottingham to Crewe for connections to the North West, Scotland and North Wales. Also a useful through service from Lincoln to Derby for connections to Birmingham, Bristol and the South West. So much more useful for the people of Lincoln than the current service to Leicester.
 

Sprinter107

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I used to travel on them regularly between Nottingham and Lincoln and the First Class area had been downgraded for some years before they were replaced, although I can't remember exactly when. I would always try if possible to make use of the 2+1 former First area with the more comfortable seats.

Also, some years before the end of them the centre trailer cars had been replaced (again, I can't remember when) by Metro-Cammell trailer cars - and I used to try and avoid them!
Yes, some of those Etches Park 120s had their centre cars replaced with Metro Cammell class 101 cars, but not all of them did. It was about 1983 time I think. I don't blame you for avoiding them. There was just no competition between a seat in a class 101 car, and a seat in a class 120 car. Class 120 beats a class 101 everytime.
 

superkev

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Yes, some of those Etches Park 120s had their centre cars replaced with Metro Cammell class 101 cars, but not all of them did. It was about 1983 time I think. I don't blame you for avoiding them. There was just no competition between a seat in a class 101 car, and a seat in a class 120 car. Class 120 beats a class 101 everytime.
A 3 car 101 beats a 120 on hills - hmm Comfort but grossly underpowered with same engines but longer and heavier (steel rather than aluminium). Non of them beat my favourite dmu the Rolls Royce powered Class 110 calder valley units. Thread getting off topic.
K
 
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