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Merseyrail Northern Line 11&12 and 18&19 Jan Engineering Works

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chiltern trev

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Anyone know what the engineering works are for 11&12 and 18&19 January 2020 week-ends?

https://www.merseyrail.org/seasonal/northern-line-engineering-work.aspx


"
For two weekends in January there will be significant engineering work taking place on our network that will impact our Northen line services.

Saturday 11 January
Rail replacement buses will be in operation between:

  • Kirkby – Liverpool Central
  • Aintree – Liverpool Central (Trains will run between Aintree and Ormskirk)
  • Hunts Cross – Seaforth & Litherland via Liverpool city centre stations (trains will run between Seaforth & Litherland and Southport)
Sunday 12 January & Saturday 18 January
Rail replacement buses will be in operation between:

  • Kirkby – Liverpool Central
  • Aintree – Liverpool Central (Trains will run between Ormskirk and Walton)
  • Hunts Cross – Seaforth & Litherland via Liverpool city centre stations (trains will run between Seaforth & Litherland and Southport)
Sunday 19 January
Rail replacement buses will be in operation between:

  • Hunts Cross – Sandhills via Liverpool city centre stations
Trains will run between:

  • Sandhills and Southport
  • Sandhills and Kirkby
  • Sandhills and Ormskirk
 
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Skie

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Interesting (and rare) move, not had Seaforth & Litherland used as a terminus before! Looks like trains will head to Bootle New Strand and head back turn round using the crossover for the North Mersey Branch, which gets rarely any use.
 

Statto

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Seaforth & Litherland is a weird location for a terminus, Waterloo is more natural location with a turning circle for buses opposite the station, trains would still have to go to Bootle New Strand & reverse at Marsh Lane Junction though.
 

jamesst

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Interesting (and rare) move, not had Seaforth & Litherland used as a terminus before! Looks like trains will head to Bootle New Strand and head back turn round using the crossover for the North Mersey Branch, which gets rarely any use.

Its been used a fair few times on a Sunday as a terminus to be honest.
 

AntoniC

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Seaforth & Litherland is a weird location for a terminus, Waterloo is more natural location with a turning circle for buses opposite the station, trains would still have to go to Bootle New Strand & reverse at Marsh Lane Junction though.
The ramp between Waterloo Bus Turning Circle and Waterloo has been closed for a while now - perhaps thats why they arent using Waterloo ?
 

Kite159

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I assume the work they are carrying out is also the reason why the Liverpool South Parkway (HL) to Warrington Central is closed? [Due to something around Hunts Cross]?
 

Skie

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Theres a bunch of things being done. Power Supply upgrades, track relaying (Brunswick I think?) and signal work. Likely a large rush of jobs to get the network ready for the new trains which will arrive very soon.
 

chiltern trev

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From RTT

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U23155/2020-01-10/detailed
Crewe BasHall S.S.M.[XXM] dep 2228 Friday 10th Jan
via Alderley Edge, Stockport, Manchester Oxford Road, Liverpool South Park pass 0035
Brunswick arr 0046
FRGT 600 tons, diesel loco

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H44546/2020-01-11/detailed
Wigan L.I.P.[XWM] dep 0239 Sat 11th Jan
tour around Wigan, St Helens Central, Olive Mount pass 0324
Edge Hill reverse
Bootle Branch past Walton & Anfield to Bootle Oriel Road pass 0351
Southport plat 2 0413-0417 reverse
Liverpool Central pass 0447
Hunts Cross 0458-0503 reverse
Liverpool Central, Ormskirk 0531 reverse
Sandhills, reverse Kirkdale C S arrive 0620 dep 0801
then back to Wigan via Sandhills, Bootle, Edge Lane, St Helens Central, Wigan L.I.P arr 0952.
Diesel loco 75mph but path as EMU (Merseyrail?) when on Merseyrail system.

And another Wigan dep 1451 - Merseyrail tour (Southport plat 1 1646-1750, Ormskirk 2011, Kirkby2123 ) - Wigan 2327 Sat 11 Jan

And 5 Wigan-Wigan circuits on Sunday 12 Jan
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/HNX/2020-01-12/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt


Any comments on these movements?
 
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jamesst

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From RTT

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U23155/2020-01-10/detailed
Crewe BasHall S.S.M.[XXM] dep 2228 Friday 10th Jan
via Alderley Edge, Stockport, Manchester Oxford Road, Liverpool South Park pass 0035
Brunswick arr 0046
FRGT 600 tons, diesel loco

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H44546/2020-01-11/detailed
Wigan L.I.P.[XWM] dep 0239 Sat 11th Jan
tour around Wigan, St Helens Central, Olive Mount pass 0324
Edge Hill reverse
Bootle Branch past Walton & Anfield to Bootle Oriel Road pass 0351
Southport plat 2 0413-0417 reverse
Liverpool Central pass 0447
Hunts Cross 0458-0503 reverse
Liverpool Central, Ormskirk 0531 reverse
Sandhills, reverse Kirkdale C S arrive 0620 dep 0801
then back to Wigan via Sandhills, Bootle, Edge Lane, St Helens Central, Wigan L.I.P arr 0952.
Diesel loco 75mph but path as EMU (Merseyrail?) when on Merseyrail system.

Any comments on these movements?

The first one looks like an engineering train, the second is the path used by the mpv.
 

CICERO55

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According to merseyrail sources, you can ask them, the new trains wont be able to run for the foreseeable to the south of Liverpool due to the bridges at aigburth and cressington. You couldnt make it up.
 

Skie

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First one of those is definitely an engineering train, there's a similar move to Bootle Jn in the early hours.
 

chiltern trev

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According to merseyrail sources, you can ask them, the new trains wont be able to run for the foreseeable to the south of Liverpool due to the bridges at aigburth and cressington. You couldnt make it up.
What is/are the problem(s) with the bridges at Aigburth and Cressington?
Presumably the 507s/508s do not have a problem at these bridges.


66502 on the engineering train at Brunswick.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45566949@N07/49366787142/
 
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M60lad

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If the above is true about those 2 bridges how soon will the problem with the bridges at Aigburth and Cressington be sorted out? What will happen to the service in the mean time while the bridges are sorted?
 

Skie

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The bridge stuff could be getting sorted as we speak as the engineering work is happening on that stretch. But as it’s all just “someone told someone who told my cat” there’s no way to tell if there’s a troll under the bridge that needs a bung to allow more than the existing stock under his bridge or if it’s just a simple alignment issue.
 

Geeves

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It sounds similar to the 195 horror stories over the Calder Valley where entire bridges and tunnels had to go, when in the end it was a week's worth of over night work to shave 10mm of stone off the tunnel walls.

I expect to see a 777 down there in 6 months time.
 

urbophile

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According to merseyrail sources, you can ask them, the new trains wont be able to run for the foreseeable to the south of Liverpool due to the bridges at aigburth and cressington. You couldnt make it up.
Which bridges and what is the problem? Is this a fault which would need rectifying anyway or something to do with clearance, which seems strange since the new trains are no larger surely. And if it's the latter why was this not identified ages ago when the work on the platforms was being done?
 

jamesst

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Which bridges and what is the problem? Is this a fault which would need rectifying anyway or something to do with clearance, which seems strange since the new trains are no larger surely. And if it's the latter why was this not identified ages ago when the work on the platforms was being done?

I'd take the someones told me with a large pinch of salt to be honest, if anything the main problems on the route are the signalling at Liverpool Central and Southport. That's meant to be getting sorted early this year.
 

chiltern trev

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Some photos have appeared on David Powell's twitter feed - https://twitter.com/DavidPo22194359

photos
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN_fBtxX0AEwM0L.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN_fBtwXUAAnC8F.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN_fBt9XUAAPPhb.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN_fBt_X4AEuRGx.jpg

Looks like work in the tunnel(s) between Brunswick and Liverpool Central - by Upper Parliament Street/St James Church junction.

And from https://twitter.com/merseyrail there is this photo (in same tunnel(s)?)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOGXZInW4AIyJFX.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOFBJd8X0AAepiR.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOFBJm9X4AAl2kB.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOFBJ4ZW4AA581J.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOFBJv0WkAIZlr2.jpg

EOFBJ4ZW4AA581J.jpg

EOFBJd8X0AAepiR.jpg


EOFBJm9X4AAl2kB.jpg
 
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MR-507508

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I'd take the someones told me with a large pinch of salt to be honest, if anything the main problems on the route are the signalling at Liverpool Central and Southport. That's meant to be getting sorted early this year.
Do you think Merseyrail will be announcing a series of planned works to be undertaken this year soon (similar to what they did for the platform upgrades) regarding the works which still need to be undertaken with the signals and Southport station track layout/platform lengths-maybe other stations too?
 

jamesst

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Do you think Merseyrail will be announcing a series of planned works to be undertaken this year soon (similar to what they did for the platform upgrades) regarding the works which still need to be undertaken with the signals and Southport station track layout/platform lengths-maybe other stations too?

Yep theres another round of closures due to be announced soon
 

jamesst

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All lines and terminal ends. For example if a train at New Brighton is shunting from the platform to siding or vice versa the signalling will have to take increased coach lengths into account. The underground which uses axle counters will be another area that needs doing
 

Bevan Price

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All lines and terminal ends. For example if a train at New Brighton is shunting from the platform to siding or vice versa the signalling will have to take increased coach lengths into account. The underground which uses axle counters will be another area that needs doing

With the various changes, will 777s & 507/508s be able to operate simultaneously, or will Northern & Wirral lines each require a single date on which "new" completely replaces all of "the old" ?
 

73001

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With the various changes, will 777s & 507/508s be able to operate simultaneously, or will Northern & Wirral lines each require a single date on which "new" completely replaces all of "the old" ?

I think somewhere on here it said Kirkby line was first for new trains. I expect the systems can cope as they already have 3 car and 6 car and the MPV travelling round so it must be able to tell the difference.
 

modernrail

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A sort of on topic question I think...why are there no buffer stops at Southport? Is there not a safety requirement for them at all stations?
 

Tomnick

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All lines and terminal ends. For example if a train at New Brighton is shunting from the platform to siding or vice versa the signalling will have to take increased coach lengths into account. The underground which uses axle counters will be another area that needs doing
Just out of interest - why, exactly? Taking the example of the shunt at New Brighton, and assuming that the longer trains fit inside the signal on the platform and in the sidings, the shunt move will just have to go a bit further to get clear behind the dolly, but I can’t imagine it’s *that* tight to the next signal in advance?
 

jamesst

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Just out of interest - why, exactly? Taking the example of the shunt at New Brighton, and assuming that the longer trains fit inside the signal on the platform and in the sidings, the shunt move will just have to go a bit further to get clear behind the dolly, but I can’t imagine it’s *that* tight to the next signal in advance?

It depends on the location of the various track circuits New Brighton as an example can be a bit problematic as it is when shunting from siding to platform with the system sometimes reading a 3 car as a 6. This will obviously have to be rectified before any potential 8 cars start running.
 
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