‘No fares available for this journey’

[JamesDrew]

Trying to book a tickets from Raynes Park to Haslemere for Monday morning.

The Trainline app only gives options of leaving at 05;58 or 09:28, nothing in between. I thought there should be various other available departures and indeed the NRE website gives multiple options. However for the quickest journey time (via Clapham Junction) it states ‘no fares available for this journey’. This seems a reasonable route so I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong? Do I have to buy 2 separate tickets for the individual legs? Why can’t I just purchase one ticket and why does the Trainline app imply the journey isn’t even possible between the times stated above?
Many thanks
James

 

[Kilopylae]

I don't know the specifics of that journey but in the interests of a quick reply I'll state the general principle. Between two stations there will only ever be a set number of permitted routes, for which tickets can be bought. The most efficient route between two places is not necessarily a permitted route. If you cannot be sold a single ticket from A to B via C, that means that via C is not a permitted route between A and B. Your only options are to purchase multiple tickets or use a permitted route.

 

[JamesDrew]

Thanks for your speedy and helpful reply. Seems odd that the quickest journey time is not a ‘permitted’ route and also that if I had relied on the Trainline app (as I usually do) I’d assume the journey wasn’t possible during normal morning commuting times.
James

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you do want to go that way have a go with Trainsplit, that should be able to work you out the best split fare for it, and if there's no through fare they don't charge a fee, either, as there's nothing to calculate it from.

 

[JamesDrew]

I have a follow up query: I ended up going to the station and buying an ‘anytime day return’ ticket Raynes Park to Haslemere. This states ‘not valid via London terminals’. Am I correct in thinking this can be used via Clapham Junction as that’s not a London terminal? (Notwithstanding the NRE website stating ‘no fare available’-see my earlier post)?
Many thanks
James

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have a follow up query: I ended up going to the station and buying an ‘anytime day return’ ticket Raynes Park to Haslemere. This states ‘not valid via London terminals’. Am I correct in thinking this can be used via Clapham Junction as that’s not a London terminal? (Notwithstanding the NRE website stating ‘no fare available’-see my earlier post)?

It could be used via CLJ if that was a Permitted Route, but it seems it isn't. The route restricts which of the list of Permitted Routes you can use, it (mostly) doesn't add any.

 

[JamesDrew]

It could be used via CLJ if that was a Permitted Route, but it seems it isn't. The route restricts which of the list of Permitted Routes you can use, it (mostly) doesn't add any.

thanks, looks like I can’t then. Seems odd though that by the quickest journey is not a ‘permitted route’ (even though it’s all on the same train operator)

 

[alistairlees]

thanks, looks like I can’t then. Seems odd though that by the quickest journey is not a ‘permitted route’ (even though it’s all on the same train operator)

There are quite a few routes where the fastest journey is not a permitted route.

 

[JamesDrew]

There are quite a few routes where the fastest journey is not a permitted route.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I came across this forum a few years ago and it's full of fascinating and at times arcane information. I wonder how the average passenger is expected to know that the quickest journey is not necessarily a permitted route?

 

[thedbdiboy]

The present structure is inherited from BR and was designed before the internet and journey planners were in everyday use. There is therefore no inbuilt capabiity to generate fares based on any specific journey; instead, the systems have to try and find a valid fare that fits with the journey plan; and if it can't it will say that no fares through fares are available.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The present structure is inherited from BR and was designed before the internet and journey planners were in everyday use. There is therefore no inbuilt capabiity to generate fares based on any specific journey; instead, the systems have to try and find a valid fare that fits with the journey plan; and if it can't it will say that no fares through fares are available.

Though as I mentioned trainsplit.com will have a good go by combining fares for you.

 

[MotCO]

Trainline will charge a fee; most TOC (train operating companies such as South West Trains) will not.

 

[30907]

Thanks, I didn't know that. I came across this forum a few years ago and it's full of fascinating and at times arcane information. I wonder how the average passenger is expected to know that the quickest journey is not necessarily a permitted route?

By using a journey planner that tells them?
Sorry to be flippant - in this case it involves a double-back of several miles, and this tends not to be permitted. Unfortunately, journey planners tend not to tell you cheaper alternatives by default- even when, as in this case, the difference is only a few minutes
"Avoid Clapham Jn" does the trick BTW.
A bit of history - when these ticket routings were set up, probably in BR days, there were far fewer trains on the SW main line that stopped at Clapham Jn but not Wimbledon, so perhaps nobody thought to make the routing "NOT CLAPHAM JN."

 

[Ianigsy]

A similar thing can happen when booking Leeds to Church Fenton- it can sometimes be quicker to take a fast train to York and a stopping train back.