Island Line Upgrade updates

[Chris125]

Details are beginning to emerge of the major works coming next winter, with thanks to the IW Bus Users Group - http://www.iwbususers.btck.co.uk/RecentMinutes

According to SWR's programme manager for the project:

• Design work is 75% complete.
• Platforms heights will be raised or track lowered to provide level boarding.
• There are gauging issues to address with some bridges.
  
• Rowborough sub-station will be renewed.
• A passing loop will be installed at Brading with level access provided by the foot crossing south of the station.
• Network Rail is considering the possibility of making Ryde St John’s Road fully accessible.
• 484s will need 700 miles of test running and should start passenger service in May 2021.
• Trackwork will be completed before next Christmas requiring two closures in Autumn; 4 weeks between Pier Head and St Johns, and 8 weeks between Smallbrook and Shanklin.
• Construction works will require 7,000 tones of material to be moved.

Somewhat curiously he also said...

• Provision of a Train Protection and Warning System is being considered between Ryde St John’s Road and Sandown stations to allow a 20-minute interval service to be run.

Other improvements are already underway, with clearance and regrading of the land south of Brading (to improve sightlines for the foot crossing?) and similar work planned for the crossing south of St Johns. The latter's footbridge is about to see some much needed attention too.

 

[cav1975]

Thanks Chris125, but you missed this interesting quote "The logistics of transferring the rolling stock (5 x 2-car trains) is challenging." Maybe they should look for a floating crane like the one that the Southern had.

 

[hexagon789]

Somewhat curiously he also said...

• Provision of a Train Protection and Warning System is being considered between Ryde St John’s Road and Sandown stations to allow a 20-minute interval service to be run.

It used to be 20 mins before Brading to Sandown was singled

 

[Meerkat]

Provision of a Train Protection and Warning System is being considered between Ryde St John’s Road and Sandown stations to allow a 20-minute interval service to be run.

Would that be instead of the Brading loop?
I assumed that when they were renewing the track they would take out the current loops to save money.....

 

[Chris125]

Would that be instead of the Brading loop?
I assumed that when they were renewing the track they would take out the current loops to save money.....

Nope, they are building the Brading loop *and* retaining the current passing places at Sandown and through Ryde so 2 or 3tph can run.

Quite why this needs 'a Train Protection and Warning System' I don't understand - a 20min/3tph service can, and occasionally has, run using the current track layout.

 

[cav1975]

While 3tph can theoretically run today there is no margin to recover late running. Maybe they are looking to increase effective line speed (by fixing the poor track) and then use the over speed sensing capability of TPWS to minimise the signal overlaps and hence make the whole operation more robust.

 

[Chris125]

While 3tph can theoretically run today there is no margin to recover late running. Maybe they are looking to increase effective line speed (by fixing the poor track) and then use the over speed sensing capability of TPWS to minimise the signal overlaps and hence make the whole operation more robust.

That's the only thing I can think of but it seems a pretty extreme and expensive solution - hard to imagine 3tph ever being justified on a sufficiently regular basis to warrant it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's the only thing I can think of but it seems a pretty extreme and expensive solution - hard to imagine 3tph ever being justified on a sufficiently regular basis to warrant it.

TBH I'd keep it dead simple, single line and a passing loop at Brading with train staff working on the bottom section and train staff and ticket on the top section. But if someone's willing to fund a more expensive solution, why not?

 

[MarkyT]

Nope, they are building the Brading loop *and* retaining the current passing places at Sandown and through Ryde so 2 or 3tph can run.

Quite why this needs 'a Train Protection and Warning System' I don't understand - a 20min/3tph service can, and occasionally has, run using the current track layout.

The existing railway has LU style mechanical train stops which were fitted selectively at risk assessed signals protecting junctions and single lines in the early 2000s as a cost effective alternative to TPWS. It was very easy to reactivate tripcocks on the ex tube rolling stock. I would have thought the D trains should also be able to work very easily with the train stop arms, as they did in their LU days. They can even do buffer and speed limit control with Moorgate-style timed train stops if neccessary. As a standalone system, another idea would be to trial a non-contact limited supervision trainstop system based on Eurobalise, as pioneered by Siemens in Berlin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugbeeinflussungssystem_S-Bahn_Berlin

The Berlin S-Bahn Train Control System - Zugbeeinflussungssystem S-Bahn Berlin (ZBS) - is a train protection system based on Eurobalises that is designed for the specific requirements of the S-Bahn Berlin rapid transit rail network. It is able to gradually replace the old system based on train stops with overlap safety. The conversion will be finished on the subnetwork Stadtbahn until the end of 2020, on the subnetwork Nord-Süd until the end of 2023 and on the subnetwork Ring until the end of 2025

 

[Chris125]

Oops - ‘Black hole’ of £1m revealed in Island Line’s finances

A FUNDING gap of £1 million has been revealed in the plans to upgrade the Island Line from Ryde to Shanklin. The plans include replacement electric trains from Vivarail, which converts former London Underground cars. The existing tube stock will be retired.

Track and platform heights will be altered for the Vivarail trains to comply with stepping distance regulations but at Brading, where the passing loop is to be reinstated, the track will need to be lowered by 500mm. So far, it is understood that this part of the scheme, which is currently costed at £1 million, has not been included in the budget.

Despite the station being listed I assumed they'd raise the platforms - I don't believe the track was raised at electrification so lowering won't be straightforward.

TBH I'd keep it dead simple, single line and a passing loop at Brading with train staff working on the bottom section and train staff and ticket on the top section.

If this was a Network Rail project with an eye on the next 50 years, sure...

Alas it's probably cheaper and certainly easier for SWR just to build the loop with as few changes elsewhere as possible - rationalising the rest of the line isn't worth the expense/risk/controversy for a short term franchise.

 

[Meerkat]

TBH I'd keep it dead simple, single line and a passing loop at Brading with train staff working on the bottom section and train staff and ticket on the top section. But if someone's willing to fund a more expensive solution, why not?

That’s what I was thinking.
One new loop at Brading (does it have to be in the station if that is too expensive??)
Plain line the other two loops, lose the maintenance cost of two platforms and access, lose the PRM issue at St Johns.
I am assuming that there is fair potential for train lengthening for potential capacity increase, and that the ferries would get bigger rather than more frequent

 

[cav1975]

TBH I'd keep it dead simple, single line and a passing loop at Brading with train staff working on the bottom section and train staff and ticket on the top section. But if someone's willing to fund a more expensive solution, why not?

Surely having to faff about with train staffs, tickets, etc. would be very detrimental to timekeeping. Certainly no need to go back to something that pre-dates the current tokenless block.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely having to faff about with train staffs, tickets, etc. would be very detrimental to timekeeping. Certainly no need to go back to something that pre-dates the current tokenless block.

The ticket would only be needed when getting the units out in the morning. The first one would go out to Brading under the ticket, then it could work with the staffs only all day until the units were being put away, when the second to last one back into the depot would go under the ticket and the final one from the bottom section on the staff.

Swapping them around doesn't take that long, and as it would take exactly the same amount of time to do every time it wouldn't be "detrimental to timekeeping", the required time to do it would be written into the timetable as it is on many rural branch lines e.g. Ormskirk-Preston. (I know Rufford-Ormskirk is now tokenless block, but the Midge Hall-Rufford token is still passed around).

 

[hooverboy]

Thanks Chris125, but you missed this interesting quote "The logistics of transferring the rolling stock (5 x 2-car trains) is challenging." Maybe they should look for a floating crane like the one that the Southern had.

you have two bloody great military bases within spitting distance( portsmouth and aldershot).
can't they just borrow a chinook?they're capable of carrying tanks(challenger 2 is 60+ tonnes),so a few railcars wouldn't be such a tall order!

portsmouth harbour is already set up for rail interchange so the d trains can be dropped off there!.....should take about 10 minutes each way plus loading /unloading times.lets say 30 minutes each way total=1 set per hour.
I reckon with a bit of willpower they can have the whole lot on IOW metals within 24 hours.

 

[Midnight Sun]

you have two bloody great military bases within spitting distance( portsmouth and aldershot).
can't they just borrow a chinook?they're capable of carrying tanks(challenger 2 is 60+ tonnes),so a few railcars wouldn't be such a tall order!
.

The maximum lift of a Chinook at optimal lifting configuration is 26000ilbs 11.6 tons. Currently, there are no helicopter capables of carrying a main battle tank. Even the world largest helicopter (Mil V-12) ever built only had a maximum lift of 88,000 lb 39 tons over a short distance. Only two prototypes were built and not flown since 1974.

 

[hooverboy]

The maximum lift of a Chinook at optimal lifting configuration is 26000ilbs 11.6 tons.

are you sure? They are definitely capable of a couple of saxon APC's at a time,and they aren't exactly light.(ps. photo below is NOT saxon!)

 

[Midnight Sun]

https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/chinook/

 

[MarkyT]

Surely having to faff about with train staffs, tickets, etc. would be very detrimental to timekeeping. Certainly no need to go back to something that pre-dates the current tokenless block.

Not only that but how would you interlock the train staff and ticket working with a train protection system? You'd probably need instruments that a key attached to the movement authority would need to be run through for each departure from the loop and the depot exit that would lower the associated train stop arm or de-energise the TPWS antenna for a time. That would add time to the process. The depot access itself would likely be via a train crew operated ground frame that would have to be operated and properly normalised before onward departure while each train exiting the depot stands on the single line. Again, this is time consuming. St Johns may be an old mechanical signal box, but functionally it is a modern centralised command centre covering the entire line and overseeing the depot connection! Keeping the existing facilities at the Ryde end also gives flexibility for any future expansion, such as reopening to Newport using 3rd rail/battery trains (after moving the steam railway to the Bembridge branch - oops sorry, wrong forum section!)

 

[hooverboy]

https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/chinook/

I stand corrected!

there's been a few enhancements since the originals, so it looks like maximum payload is now about 14T for the CH47-D.

where is thunderbird 2 when you need it?

 

[3973EXL]

are you sure? They are definitely capable of a couple of saxon APC's at a time,and they aren't exactly light.(ps. photo below is NOT saxon!)

Looks like a CVRT (light tank) which comes in at around 8 tons.

 

[Meerkat]

When are they doing the pier work?
Presumably they will need to charter a jack up barge for that? Get one with a decent crane and use it to lift the new stock onto the pier.

 

[HSTEd]

are you sure? They are definitely capable of a couple of saxon APC's at a time,and they aren't exactly light.(ps. photo below is NOT saxon!)

That looks like some form of CVR(T).... probably the 30mm RARDEN armed Scimitar.
Which weighs about eight tonnes.

 

[RichT54]

In the island-line-railway-current-state-and-the-future thread I asked how they would get the new trains to the IoW and several people subsequently replied that they would be transported on the normal ferries and the idea they would need special handling was ridiculed. What has changed?

 

[D365]

In the island-line-railway-current-state-and-the-future thread I asked how they would get the new trains to the IoW and several people subsequently replied that they would be transported on the normal ferries and the idea they would need special handling was ridiculed. What has changed?

Would this apply to the Class 483 stock too? SWR has previously stated that they will be looking to get the units preserved.

 

[Bigfoot]

you have two bloody great military bases within spitting distance( portsmouth and aldershot).

Bloody great military bases. Oh dear. It's not 1940.

 

[swt_passenger]

In the island-line-railway-current-state-and-the-future thread I asked how they would get the new trains to the IoW and several people subsequently replied that they would be transported on the normal ferries and the idea they would need special handling was ridiculed. What has changed?

Nothing. I expect it’s the usual wild exaggeration...

 

[duffield]

I must say that it seems quite impressive (compared to the usual railway project timescales) how quickly this seems to be progressing so far. I guess it's a lot simpler for an isolated line like this, but even so...

 

[Meerkat]

I must say that it seems quite impressive (compared to the usual railway project timescales) how quickly this seems to be progressing so far. I guess it's a lot simpler for an isolated line like this, but even so...

The knackered state of the whole operation is probably rather motivating!!

 

[RichardGore]

looks like maximum payload is now about 14T for the CH47-D.

That is, I grant you, a huge amount of magnetic flux density - comparable with the confinement magnets at ITER, even.

I hear it can also lift about 14t.

 

[pompeyfan]

The 484s will be moved to Fratton either on rail or driven on the back of a lorry, they’ll then be put on the ferry to Fishbourne on the back of a lorry, I’m not entirely sure where they’ll be re-railed. I’m not certain if the steam railway is still connected to the island line. If it is they’ll be rerailed at Haven Street and then a shunter of some kind will drag them to St John’s. I don’t think there’s room in the area for a 18m trailer to negotiate the surrounding streets, it’s tight enough in your standard 10.8m double decker E400