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Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

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the post Tom is referring to is a driver on FB who’s based in Holyhead. He says the whole set needs to be in Holyhead by the 24th but there’s still a few little issues with it (didn’t state what they were). I read it as it’s expected to be moved on the 24th but it could be sooner.
Out of interest, what group was the post on? There's talk of at least one set needing to go back to Eastleigh.
 
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Rhydgaled

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Where has it been said that there will be 5 cars running between Swansea and Manchester/the North? Ive only seen it on here, no official document.
The Manchester trains tend to do Ok as 3 cars whereas 2 cars are often crowded, especially at peak times. 5 cars would be overkill most of the day. It's been publicly announced in the franchise plans that there will be increased frequencies on the marches with the addition of 2 hourly Cardiff-Liverpool services from Dec 2022 which should increase capacity overall and ease the demand on the specific peak busy services.
Nothing 'official' as in TfW-branded that I'm aware of, but the July 2018 'Modern Railways' stated that a sub-fleet of 14x3-car CAF Civity units would have 1st class for Manchester-Swansea with 2-car units attached and detached at Swansea to maintain through services between W. Wales and MAN. That bit wasn't a direct quote from a TfW spokesperson as far as I'm aware, but if it's just a rumour it's a rather more widespread one than just this forum.

That diagram Is one which will eventually be a 67+Mk4 but currently booked 158 IIRC.
Which would explain both the loco-hauled timings and the present lack of first class
Another possible explanation is that, at one point at least, the diagram was planned to be worked by what is currently the north Wales coast (Manchester) mark 3 set (which is of course standard-only).

In other mark 4 news, TfW customer relations have answered my query about possible extra mark 4 sets by saying that it is still just three 4-car rakes (12 carriages) planned at the moment. Then again they also implied that there would be three standard and one restaurant/first class coach, which means either the customer relations pepole are assuming the same formation as the current mark 3s or the plan has changed and they will now be refurbishing the interiors. They "expect to see them in use for the May timetable and initial staff training has started ready for when they are passed to us for use" although that might have been referring to Cardiff-Holyhead in May which if so leaves open the possibility of them being seen on the Manchesters prior to that.
 

tomwills98

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That should have been one of the Mk4 diagrams and I believe the stops at the smaller stations have been readded as it's now running as a DMU.

It will just be the three sets of four carriages in the same config as Gerald with three standard and one first/restaurant. The interior branding will be changed but aside from that, there won't be much different from how they arrived from LNER. They will not be used on either service we have to Manchester which will continue as current with DMU's. I imagine the North Wales Mk3 rake will be replaced with a DMU but I have no idea on time.
 

tomwills98

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Ah, didn't realise that sorry. I've always been told same as Gerald but Mk4, need to pay more attention to the thread.
 

The Prisoner

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Class 67 in TfW livery, 4 x Mk IV in Virgin livery and DVT just passed my office travelling west out of Chester towards North Wales at around 1030. Slightly too far to see the number from here.
 

The Prisoner

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Just passed back towards Chester over the racecourse viaduct at around five past three. Has come back from Llandudno having gone out to Holyhead, so has been on a good old tour of North Wales.
 

krus_aragon

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Just passed back towards Chester over the racecourse viaduct at around five past three. Has come back from Llandudno having gone out to Holyhead, so has been on a good old tour of North Wales.
Incidentally, the double-back to Llandudno covered the route of the existing Manchester-North Wales loco-hauled set; Llandudno isn't part of the Holyhead-Cardiff route they will be serving.

I wonder if this is an indication that the sets might be used on the current Manchester diagram in the short term, or if it's just common sense to clear the MkIVs for the Llandudno branch as well while they're at it?
 

FrodshamJnct

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Incidentally, the double-back to Llandudno covered the route of the existing Manchester-North Wales loco-hauled set; Llandudno isn't part of the Holyhead-Cardiff route they will be serving.

I wonder if this is an indication that the sets might be used on the current Manchester diagram in the short term, or if it's just common sense to clear the MkIVs for the Llandudno branch as well while they're at it?

Have been wondering the same. Plus, there’s a test run to Manchester on Thursday:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V03543/2020-01-30/detailed
 

modernrail

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They are actually one full first, two full standard and one standard/restaurant coach.
Will that be enough standard seating I wonder? A shame they can't won't add another standard carriage. With a dedicated restaurant and a full first class carriage that would make for a great continental style set up, or like the MKIVs were originally befire we did away with restaurant cars!
 

hexagon789

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Will that be enough standard seating I wonder? A shame they can't won't add another standard carriage. With a dedicated restaurant and a full first class carriage that would make for a great continental style set up, or like the MKIVs were originally befire we did away with restaurant cars!

I must say I'm still surprised they've gone for a full first instead of making the equivalent of the Mk3 set with a First Class/Buffet-Kitchen car.
 

hexagon789

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Sounds like it’s going to be quite cosy on there in standard!

Earlier in this thread someone linked to a tweet by TfW stating that First Class capacity would be 19 on the Mk4s; since then the sets have since been taken in hand with a full first. I believe someone also said that's how it's going to be now, they aren't putting them in service as is and layer performing seating mods. If they can sell some decently-priced first class fares and upgrades, it shouldn't be so much of an issue to full first up and take pressure off the reduced Std class provision.

We will see...
 

ainsworth74

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It is an interesting move. I do wonder if it's maybe related to a PRM-TSI compliance issue? If you re-seated the buffet vehicle to first class you wouldn't be able to have a first class accessible toilet whereas I believe they've taken the former coach L which does have a compliant toilet.

Plus I suppose it means you can also get them in service a heck of a lot quicker than if you faff about with changing the seating in the buffet and moving the buffet counter to the other end of the kitchen.
 

hexagon789

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It is an interesting move. I do wonder if it's maybe related to a PRM-TSI compliance issue? If you re-seated the buffet vehicle to first class you wouldn't be able to have a first class accessible toilet whereas I believe they've taken the former coach L which does have a compliant toilet.

Plus I suppose it means you can also get them in service a heck of a lot quicker than if you faff about with changing the seating in the buffet and moving the buffet counter to the other end of the kitchen.

So there must be a compliant toilet in both classes then?

If that's the case, couldn't the POD be converted to a composite? Easy enough to do really.
 

HamworthyGoods

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So there must be a compliant toilet in both classes then?

If that's the case, couldn't the POD be converted to a composite? Easy enough to do really.

It might just be to get them into service quickly that half of the first class coach will be declassified with the existing seats.
 

hexagon789

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It might just be to get them into service quickly that half of the first class coach will be declassified with the existing seats.

I guess, the issue with that though is demarcating what is and what isn't first class. Though I guess it could be worse, at least First Class is "First Class" if nothing else!
 

mpb56125

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hexagon789

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Nice set of photos, I notice the "1"s have been taken off the doors of the POD.
 

sprinterguy

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Admittedly the VTEC livered mark 4s don't look incongruous with the red/light grey TfW livered DVT and 67. Quite reminiscent of the way that Wrexham & Shropshire livery, with minor embellishments, was initially indicative of Chiltern's premier push-pull mark 3 services when they commenced before being adopted as the basis for the general "Chiltern Mainline" identity.
 

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