DB Cargo - Truth Hurts

[Islineclear3_1]

Well they can stuff themselves.

Wow, well don't expect any future applications with the railway to be successful with that attitude...

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Worth considering for future applications.

That would depend on whether the OP passes the attitude test, which judging by his previous comment might be difficult

 

[Heaps92]

Because I’ve gotten every job I’ve ever applied for (my last job I got before my conviction so they didn’t check). So obviously it’s not a problem with me but with them and the fact they worry about unspent convictions. Just annoyed at them because I know I’d do a great job and be more proactive than 80% of people.

What a boring child.

 

[SlimJim1694]

I was giving this guy the benefit of the doubt before, but with an attitude like that I think maybe its best he didn't get the job.

I'm a qualified driver and I've put in for LNER and Eurostar and been rejected in the past, the fact is they gave the job to the people they wanted to give it to and rejected everyone else. No point in sour grapes. Nobody has a divine right to a job. If you want it you learn from your mistakes and keep trying. My advice to you is to look at your attitude, respect the fact that the world doesn't owe you a living and reapply when the conviction is spent.

 

[Llanigraham]

They aren’t spent, I just assumed they aren’t allowed to discriminate on unspent convictions either. But maybe they are. Anyway I’m at a cross roads in life, either becoming a train driver, which has always been a dream of mine and having a steady pay check or starting my own business. Which is risky but better than having my future dictated by HR office workers.

i guess DB cargo have helped me decide

P.S. I believe in karma so I’m sure that some of those drivers that did get selected will quit as soon as they are trained, then they won’t have any drivers.

Oh dear!! Considering how many people are applying to be train drivers I think you've really got the wrong idea.

100% the reason I failed the paper sift, I have a history of both mechanical and customer service roles. I’ve also read through the train RSSB rule book like 10 times and referenced most of the information in my cover letter - showing a proactive approach.

Anyway not going to let it bother me - I would just recommend not declaring unspent convictions then if they want to check, tough luck. Quit. If they don’t, you’ll be in a better position than me.

Pre-reading the Rule Book will not have helped your application, as has been said here numerous times.
Frankly with that attitude I'm not surprised you didn't get sellected, and it also isn't going to help if/when you run your own business.
If the question asked on application is "Have you ever been convicted of a criminal charge?" and yo then not declaring it is VERY bad advice.

 

[Sammy2019]

I’ve been applying for trainee driver jobs since 2015, only recently have I been successful at even getting in the talent pool for two companies. That was literally applying to every trainee role with in the essex and London areas. I think you’ve massively underestimated how many applicants these companies get.

 

[Stigy]

I applied for a trainee/junior apprentice role for DB cargo for their talent pool and got rejected.

A lot of threads on here advised to be honest with past criminal convictions. So I was.

What hurts the most is that my CV is fantastic. I demonstrated I have the appropriate physical and mechanical experience and also dealt with a lot of high stress situations in my previous jobs.

So that’s what honesty gets you chaps.

Well they can stuff themselves.

People are rejected at this stage all the time. Get over it and move on. I appreciate you’re annoyed, but you sound a bit on the arrogant side in your initial post anyway. If you got an interview and weren’t offered a job, would you be of the same view?

The more I read this thread the more you actually sound like a petulant child and I think maybe you’re here just to get a reaction anyway?

 

[jwc04]

Don't let this one attempt knock you back.

Up until I first applied to be a driver, I had 6 full time jobs and only applied for about 10 in my while life,I feeling pretty confident in my ability to get a job that I had applied for. I then applied for the first time for a driving role (when Virgin East Coast as they were at the time) were wanting circa 50 trainee drivers.

I was knocked back despite what I felt to be good examples of customer service and operational roles on my CV.

Over the years I have since applied for about a dozen driving roles at 4 TOCS and only on the 8th or 9th have I finally got through all the interviews and assessments and been placed in a talent pool, with three later applications not getting very far. All of my applications used the same experiences with some minor tweaks to my CV and method of completing the forms.

Don't let one attempt write you off. It takes persistence, determination and the ability to learn from mistakes, which are all important when running your own business too.

 

[4F89]

I think you would find the attitude test a challenge tbh

 

[43066]

Hope I didn't come over a as a pedant! And yes you don't need to tell them about spent convictions and because most of the roles in the railway are probably unregulated, then they can't request a DBS for them.

Not at all.

I suppose the nub of this thread is whether you would disclose them if asked. The OP seems to think it was unwise although he has no evidence to support his assertion that it was the reason he failed the paper sift.

Yes indeed.

Personally I am of the view that, if someone has spent convictions, they shouldn’t disclose them under any circumstances. Employers have no right to ask about spent convictions in the first place (other than for certain exempted jobs).

The legal system fully supports that approach, and indeed makes it unlawful for employers to discriminate against candidates for having spent convictions, should they become apparent via other means.

The whole ethos behind the system (which I wholeheartedly agree with, as someone with no convictions whatsoever) is that those who have committed relatively minor offences in the past and have “done their time”, so to speak, should be given a clean slate.

Convictions carry a huge stigma and can invoke some highly judgemental attitudes, as displayed on this very thread.

EDIT: the OP has now clarified that his convictions aren’t yet spent so the above isn’t relevant to his situation. I’d suggest hanging fire for now and reapplying in future when the conviction(s) are spent.

 

[LRV3004]

Put yourself in the shoes of the HR department at DB. Imagine you receive two applications, but there's only one vacancy. With regard to skills and qualifications they are identical, except one has a criminal record and one doesn't. Which one would you shortlist for interview?
I also don't understand what you mean by "illegal search"? If the police believe they have reason to do a search - they will. You also say it wasn't down to "choices". My impression is, unfortunately, you chose to break the law, hence why you now have a criminal record. Poor choices ultimately lead to consequences.
Also - you mention about karma and that the drivers who get trained up will leave, leaving the company with no drivers. They seem to be managing just fine as they are at the moment. And what's to say they will quit? They may stay with the company and enjoy fulfilling careers - something they choose to do......a choice!
Rejection is a bitch - I have tasted rejection and failure many a time in various applications to the railway. Telling the company to "stuff themselves", to me, is a sign of extreme bitterness and a case of sour grapes.
Put it behind you and move on.

 

[Undiscovered]

To quote 43066:

The whole ethos behind the system (which I wholeheartedly agree with, as someone with no convictions whatsoever) is that those who have committed relatively minor offences in the past and have “done their time”, so to speak, should be given a clean slate.

Convictions carry a huge stigma and can invoke some highly judgemental attitudes, as displayed on this very thread.
End quote.

The forum agrees with you: Those who do not need to disclose their convictions should not, as is their legal right. The past is the past.

The crux is two-fold: The railway is notoriously difficult to get in to and an applicant has unspent convictions.

There are many stories here of applicants taking 5plus yrs to secure a driving job, even though their CV seems exemplary- it's just the way it is. Add an unspent conviction and you are instantly at a disadvantage as you would be with ANY other job. Unhappily, that is the way of things when there are 2000 applicants for 2jobs.

However, do not be under the illusion that non-disclosure is the way forward. When you, and you will, get caught out, you will lose your job. It's far easier to bide your time until a conviction is spent, than to try and find another job to fund your £50kpa lifestyle with an instant termination for gross misconduct on your CV.

 

[43066]

To quote 43066:

The whole ethos behind the system (which I wholeheartedly agree with, as someone with no convictions whatsoever) is that those who have committed relatively minor offences in the past and have “done their time”, so to speak, should be given a clean slate.

Convictions carry a huge stigma and can invoke some highly judgemental attitudes, as displayed on this very thread.
End quote.

The forum agrees with you: Those who do not need to disclose their convictions should not, as is their legal right. The past is the past.

The crux is two-fold: The railway is notoriously difficult to get in to and an applicant has unspent convictions.

There are many stories here of applicants taking 5plus yrs to secure a driving job, even though their CV seems exemplary- it's just the way it is. Add an unspent conviction and you are instantly at a disadvantage as you would be with ANY other job. Unhappily, that is the way of things when there are 2000 applicants for 2jobs.

However, do not be under the illusion that non-disclosure is the way forward. When you, and you will, get caught out, you will lose your job. It's far easier to bide your time until a conviction is spent, than to try and find another job to fund your £50kpa lifestyle with an instant termination for gross misconduct on your CV.

To clarify, I’d never condone anyone trying to cover up unspent convictions, which are required to be disclosed, if the question is asked.

Some of the earlier discussion didn’t seem to distinguish between spent and unspent convictions.

 

[Stigy]

To clarify, I’d never condone anyone trying to cover up unspent convictions, which are required to be disclosed if the question is asked.

Some of the earlier discussion didn’t seem to distinguish between spent and unspent convictions.

I’m not even convinced that the OP’s conviction could ever be classed as spent...

 

[scouseyb123]

Arrogant, sour grapes. Do not employ.

 

[Atishyou]

I was going to reply to this thread yesterday and say you appear to have an attitude problem, then decided against it as you hadn't got past the paper sift.

Turns out, my preconceptions were correct.

Just annoyed at them because I know I’d do a great job and be more proactive than 80% of people.

Yeah alright

 

[JLyons]

P.S. I believe in karma so I’m sure that some of those drivers that did get selected will quit as soon as they are trained, then they won’t have any drivers.

By the sounds of that remark, it sounds like you’ve got some growing up to do before you should apply for any more jobs.

 

[stevieoz]

I thought all TOC's and FOC's did the CRB check as one of the conditions of employment?

You cant start a job until this is complete... or am I wrong?

So non disclosure is pointless.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

I thought all TOC's and FOC's did the CRB check as one of the conditions of employment?

You cant start a job until this is complete... or am I wrong?

So non disclosure is pointless.

Employers are not legally required to get a DBS check for an employee unless it's for a regulated role, and technically they cannot request any check unless the job in question is eligible for one. It all seems to be little vague and the DBS now have an eligibility tool on their website.

As @43066 says, I wouldn't disclose any spent convictions simply because even though employers cannot discriminate on the grounds that you have them, there is always the risk of unconscious bias.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think the OP has been given all the advice they need in this case. If anyone wishes to discuss in more broader terms the issues around criminal convictions and working on the railway I would encourage them to do so on a new thread.

This one however has run its course and is locked.