Heathrow Southern Link proposals

[kevin_roche]

Interesting to see that HSR Ltd has a new ‘boss’. Presumably the old one has left, which also presumably means the money has run out (or nearly so).

This was mentioned in a press release at the end of December. I was busy at the time and missed it.

https://heathrowrail.com/chris-stok...becomes-managing-director-of-slc-investments/

Heathrow Southern Railway Limited (HSRL) – the private sector venture set up to transform the rail network serving Britain’s busiest airport – is pleased to announce the appointment of Chris Stokes as its new Chief Executive.

Chris succeeds Graham Cross who has held the role for the past two years and has been appointed as head of SLC’s new rail investment business.

My guess is that it must be a quite frustrating job.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

These rail links are more for the staff that work at the airport rather than passengers. Most car parks they are going to get rid of due to the 3rd runway are staff car parks.

The go-ahead for either the Western Link or Southern Link are not dependent on Heathrow getting a third runway.

I suspect there is a finite limit as to what proportion of staff members would utilise the proposed rail links. Passengers will only be heading to and from the terminals whereas staff functions are dotted around all over the airport (away from the rail stations).

 

[si404]

Staff do make up a lot of the travel to the airport, they often live in places easily commutable by rail with these links - places like Slough, Southall (already linked), Staines, etc*. They don't have the luggage and group travel issues that put air passengers off rail in favour of taxis and the like. If you focus on building rail infrastructure for staff travel to the airport, you can still run passenger-orientated trains on it. If you focus on passenger-orientated rail infrastructure for airports you end up not serving the staff because you whizz past where they live to get to the tourist/business places (you also are likely to end up with a Manchester Airport-style services to all over the place and poor local service along the railway between City and Airport).

*Though other places like Hillingdon, High Wycombe, or Hampton where Airport workers live are going to be harder to link to the airport without using the roads near it.

 

[zoneking]

There was a terrible road accident on New Year's Eve concerning BA staff. The more that can be done to improve public transport to the airport, the better.

 

[The Ham]

There was a terrible road accident on New Year's Eve concerning BA staff. The more that can be done to improve public transport to the airport, the better.

For many organisations road accidents are of greater concern in terms of safety than anything that they actually do.

 

[The Ham]

Staff do make up a lot of the travel to the airport, they often live in places easily commutable by rail with these links - places like Slough, Southall (already linked), Staines, etc*. They don't have the luggage and group travel issues that put air passengers off rail in favour of taxis and the like. If you focus on building rail infrastructure for staff travel to the airport, you can still run passenger-orientated trains on it. If you focus on passenger-orientated rail infrastructure for airports you end up not serving the staff because you whizz past where they live to get to the tourist/business places (you also are likely to end up with a Manchester Airport-style services to all over the place and poor local service along the railway between City and Airport).

*Though other places like Hillingdon, High Wycombe, or Hampton where Airport workers live are going to be harder to link to the airport without using the roads near it.

It's one of the reasons that running the services as a local stopping service between Woking and Basingstoke (and to a lesser extent Guildford) could improve the business case over the semi fast Basingstoke, Farnborough Main, Woking service currently proposed.

 

[Sean Emmett]

Yes would like to see this happen, but in meantime why not a simple extension of the Piccadilly line from T4 to Feltham? Would be so much easier and quicker than the bus!

 

[Bald Rick]

I suspect there is a finite limit as to what proportion of staff members would utilise the proposed rail links. Passengers will only be heading to and from the terminals whereas staff functions are dotted around all over the airport (away from the rail stations).

This. Spot on.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

The go-ahead for either the Western Link or Southern Link are not dependent on Heathrow getting a third runway.

I suspect there is a finite limit as to what proportion of staff members would utilise the proposed rail links. Passengers will only be heading to and from the terminals whereas staff functions are dotted around all over the airport (away from the rail stations).

There are already staff buses that run from stations like Hatton Cross, surely it is just a case of expanding these services so staff arriving by train from the extended train routes can complete the journey to their work places.

 

[Bald Rick]

There are already staff buses that run from stations like Hatton Cross, surely it is just a case of expanding these services so staff arriving by train from the extended train routes can complete the journey to their work places.

But the new rail routes are going to serve existing stations - those bus services could (do?) exist now.

 

[edwin_m]

It won't make much difference to the staff around the periphery, some of whom will already be near to Hatton Cross, Terminal 4 or bus stops. But better links to the terminals would benefit the huge number of staff who work there and also aircrew who presumably report there for their flights.

 

[Class 170101]

But the new rail routes are going to serve existing stations - those bus services could (do?) exist now.

But is it appropriate to have 'long' staff bus routes to get them to / from stations like Woking to parts of the Airport not served by train? (Think traffic and emmissions at source.)

These rail links are more for the staff that work at the airport rather than passengers. Most car parks they are going to get rid of due to the 3rd runway are staff car parks.

I suspect they will have to be replaced simply because the rail infrastructure will not provide services 24hrs a day.

 

[Meerkat]

I suspect there is a finite limit as to what proportion of staff members would utilise the proposed rail links. Passengers will only be heading to and from the terminals whereas staff functions are dotted around all over the airport (away from the rail stations).

The staff have to park where they are told and get shuttle buses anyway, so getting there by train and shuttle bus is similar at that end.
Staff do shifts though so are less concerned about rush hour traffic problems, but if their parking is restricted they will have to use public transport

 

[VT 390]

Yes would like to see this happen, but in meantime why not a simple extension of the Piccadilly line from T4 to Feltham? Would be so much easier and quicker than the bus!

If the route was to serve Terminal 4 in both directions would it not be very hard to build as the terminal 4 Underground station is on a one way loop.

 

[Bald Rick]

But is it appropriate to have 'long' staff bus routes to get them to / from stations like Woking to parts of the Airport not served by train? (Think traffic and emmissions at source.)

I suspect they will have to be replaced simply because the rail infrastructure will not provide services 24hrs a day.

Sorry we may have misunderstood each other. My point was that the new rail links are going to serve existing stations in Heathrow. Therefore, if there is demand for shuttle buses from the Heathrow stations to the employment sites around Heathrow, they could operate now. Adding in the Western / Southern links would clearly make them more popular, but they must be possible now, and I guess that some do operate.

 

[Horizon22]

The go-ahead for either the Western Link or Southern Link are not dependent on Heathrow getting a third runway.

I suspect there is a finite limit as to what proportion of staff members would utilise the proposed rail links. Passengers will only be heading to and from the terminals whereas staff functions are dotted around all over the airport (away from the rail stations).

Indeed, people can forget how big an airport footprint can be. Not to mentioned he shifts airlines run and the need to arrive before passenger trains start running (particularly on Sundays)

The same applies to rail operational staff driving to depots.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

But the new rail routes are going to serve existing stations - those bus services could (do?) exist now.

Exactly, they do already exist, that was the point I was making in reply to posts suggesting that workers would still drive as their place of employment was remote from the stations.

I meant that someone coming from a new Southern approach station could then shift from car to train and shuttle bus.

 

[camflyer]

New article on IanVisits (which is usually quite a reliable source) on funding problems for the Western link: https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/25/heathrow-rail-link-funding-uncertain/

 

[matt_world2004]

Heathrow will promise to pay a substantial chunk of it then bail once construction starts like they did with crossrail.

 

[kevin_roche]

Heathrow will promise to pay a substantial chunk of it then bail once construction starts like they did with crossrail.

IIRC they promised the southern link in the application for Terminal 5. Funny it seems too difficult for them to manage now.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Heathrow will promise to pay a substantial chunk of it then bail once construction starts like they did with crossrail.

Didn't HAL (Or might even have been BAA?) pay for a lot of the works at Stockley? Surely a more water-tight contractual agreement to part fund it would be put in place to stop an organisation reneging on their promises?

 

[matt_world2004]

Didn't HAL (Or might even have been BAA?) pay for a lot of the works at Stockley? Surely a more water-tight contractual agreement to part fund it would be put in place to stop an organisation reneging on their promises?

Heathrow promised to pay £260 million for crossrail and ended up paying 70 million, it then tried to claim that 70 million back through track access fees.

 

[MarkyT]

Heathrow promised to pay £260 million for crossrail and ended up paying 70 million, it then tried to claim that 70 million back through track access fees.

Airports are environmental scumbags without exception. They have absolutely no interest in discouraging private car traffic to their terminals because they make an absolute fortune from parking, either directly or from land leased to other parking operators.

 

[duffield]

Heathrow will promise to pay a substantial chunk of it then bail once construction starts like they did with crossrail.

Or "*If* construction starts"? There is considerable speculation that the PM may cancel the whole thing, possibly using an unfavourable outcome of the court case against it by Friends of the Earth as an excuse. The court of appeal ruling is due tomorrow. If this happens it could clearly have a negative impact on the southern link proposal.

 

[kevin_roche]

Airports are environmental scumbags without exception. They have absolutely no interest in discouraging private car traffic to their terminals because they make an absolute fortune from parking, either directly or from land leased to other parking operators.

Heathrow are due to make more by charging a new Ultra Low Emission Zone charge to people dropping travellers off too.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Heathrow are due to make more by charging a new Ultra Low Emission Zone charge to people dropping travellers off too.

Does every pilot have to cough-up when they land?

I wonder what the equivalent amount of cars driving into and out of Heathrow is, compared to a 747 landing and taking-off again?

 

[HowardGWR]

I suppose the various links, if built, would be just as useful if the whole area became housing estates when the PM gets the Estuary island airport built and Heathrow is closed?

 

[PTR 444]

I suppose the various links, if built, would be just as useful if the whole area became housing estates

Even more useful if it becomes another Canary Wharf.

 

[Bald Rick]

Heathrow will promise to pay a substantial chunk of it then bail once construction starts like they did with crossrail.

No they won’t.

They will only pay if it can demonstrably help them make more money, or help them meet legally binding targets. Until then, they’ll play hard ball.

 

[camflyer]

I suppose the various links, if built, would be just as useful if the whole area became housing estates when the PM gets the Estuary island airport built and Heathrow is closed?

His estuary airport has always been a mad fantasy that nobody else supports. It's in the wrong place, there is no local population to work there or any infrastructure and would cause economic collapse to the west of London. In terms of cost it would make HS2 look like a village bypass.