DaleCooper
Established Member
It is easy, we just have to do as the EU says and follow rules in which we no longer have a say. Seems straightforward to me.Wasn't this supposed to be the easiest deal in human history or something?
It is easy, we just have to do as the EU says and follow rules in which we no longer have a say. Seems straightforward to me.Wasn't this supposed to be the easiest deal in human history or something?
The Plucky Brits won't stand for it! It is after all the will of the people and who needs fresh food and medicine anyway?It is easy, we just have to do as the EU says and follow rules in which we no longer have a say. Seems straightforward to me.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...teer-amsterdam-airport-schiphol-a9335281.htmlA Brexiteer who was forced to wait in an immigration queue at an EU airport in Amsterdam has complained that "this isn’t the Brexit I voted for”.
Colin Browning, who described himself as one of the 17.4 million people who voted for Brexit, said he was forced to wait for nearly an hour at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol before his passport was checked.
“Absolutely disgusting service at Schiphol airport. 55 minutes we have been stood in the immigration queue. This isn’t the Brexit I voted for,” he wrote on Twitter.
Please tell me he was being ironic.
Sorry. “twitter analysts” suggest he’s a true believer - & I feel sorry.Please tell me he was being ironic.
Post-Brexit talks: UK prepared to walk away in June if no progress
The UK has warned the EU it will walk away from trade talks in June unless there is a "broad outline" of a deal.
Michael Gove told MPs the UK wanted to strike a "comprehensive free trade agreement" in 10 months.
But the government would not accept any alignment with EU laws as the EU is demanding, with Mr Gove adding: "We will not trade away our sovereignty."
The EU has already set out its priorities ahead of the formal start of the talks on Monday.
The government has published a 30-page document outlining its priorities for the talks.
The UK document says:
The UK officially left the EU at the end of January, but is continuing to abide by many EU rules while talks on a permanent trading relationship take place.
- The UK "will not negotiate any arrangements in which the UK does not have control of its own laws and political life"
- The UK's aim is for a trading relationship with the EU similar to the ones the 27-nation bloc has with Canada, Japan and South Korea
- There will be no jurisdiction for EU law or the European Court of Justice in the UK
- The UK will rely on World Trade Organization rules under an arrangement with the EU similar to Australia's if progress on a comprehensive deal cannot be made
- A separate agreement on fisheries is needed, to reflect the fact that "the UK will be an independent coastal state at the end of 2020"
- The government wants to agree a "broad outline" of a deal with the EU "capable of being rapidly finalised by September" in the next four months
- If that does not happen it will decide whether to switch focus to leaving on WTO terms at the end of December
Mr Johnson has pledged to get a deal with the EU by the end of the so-called transition period - 31 December 2020 - and has said he is not prepared to extend that deadline.
The UK's negotiating team will be led by Mr Johnson's Europe adviser David Frost.
Not really a stalemate, as the UK is totally going to lose out.If they stick to this it will surely be stalemate, it doesn't look promising.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51650961
That is exactly what we are wanting but the EU will not give it unless we also accept loss of control of our fishing waters, dynamic alignment with EU regulations, acceptance of ECJ, and much else, not to mention Gibraltar and even the Elgin marbles.I don't understand why Johnson is doing this. We've finally left the union, and without stepping on our prized sovereignty (that sovereignty shtick is banal and meaningless - we never lost it to begin with - but let's not dwell eh?) we could still negotiate and keep the ultra-important bits of our partnership with the EU. European Arrest Warrant, Erasmus+, tariff-free trade and some of the other important cogs and widgets that keep the UK economy and security going.
But no. The PM and his fellow petulant children in the cabinet are absolutely determined to bore a massive hole in what's left of the economy and condemn our businesses to WTO tariffs while erasing any remaining goodwill we had with EU nations.
And for what? Anyone want to explain how this is going to benefit us?
EU tax regulation, it seems.I don't understand why Johnson is doing this.
So he can play at being some sort of revolutionary PM?I don't understand why Johnson is doing this. We've finally left the union, and without stepping on our prized sovereignty (that sovereignty shtick is banal and meaningless - we never lost it to begin with - but let's not dwell eh?) we could still negotiate and keep the ultra-important bits of our partnership with the EU. European Arrest Warrant, Erasmus+, tariff-free trade and some of the other important cogs and widgets that keep the UK economy and security going.
But no. The PM and his fellow petulant children in the cabinet are absolutely determined to bore a massive hole in what's left of the economy and condemn our businesses to WTO tariffs while erasing any remaining goodwill we had with EU nations.
And for what? Anyone want to explain how this is going to benefit us?
In a negotiation and deal, everyone gives in a little bit. The deal that comes out will be a more or less fair one, not a deal that favours one side.That is exactly what we are wanting but the EU will not give it unless we also accept loss of control of our fishing waters, dynamic alignment with EU regulations, acceptance of ECJ, and much else, not to mention Gibraltar and even the Elgin marbles.
The only logical reason he would want this is so that he can build Singapour sur Tamise as the French media call it.EU tax regulation, it seems.
Not sure the UK was ever promised a Canada deal, rather it was after Teresa May outlined her plans for the future UK/EU relationship and was told then that what she as after was not possible, and what the UK would get would be closer to a Canada style deal and not that it would be replicated.To be fair, this is precisely what the EU has been asking for for the last three years:
"You can't have a bespoke deal - it's either limited access with limited convergence, like Canada, or greater access with more convergence, like Norway".
For better or worse, Johnson's decided on Canada, and the EU is backtracking.
Just saying.....
Not sure the UK was ever promised a Canada deal, rather it was after Teresa May outlined her plans for the future UK/EU relationship and was told then that what she as after was not possible, and what the UK would get would be closer to a Canada style deal and not that it would be replicated.
I also recall Johnson saying he was after a Canada plus plus deal, but all the promises yet again have come from the British fantasists in government.
However, if Johnson truly is only asking for what other third party countries have got through their trade deals and the EU isn't prepared to go along with that, then the EU is trying to have its gateaux and eat it
That is exactly what we are wanting but the EU will not give it unless we also accept loss of control of our fishing waters, dynamic alignment with EU regulations, acceptance of ECJ, and much else, not to mention Gibraltar and even the Elgin marbles.
The only logical reason he would want this is so that he can build Singapour sur Tamise as the French media call it.
Is the UK asking for greater access than Canada, Japan or South Korea?I think that over the past three years, the EU has been entirely justified in saying that "you can't have your cake and eat it", which was what Theresa May was trying to do. If you want greater access, you have to put up with greater convergence.
However, if Johnson truly is only asking for what other third party countries have got through their trade deals and the EU isn't prepared to go along with that, then the EU is trying to have its gateaux and eat it.
Because we are much closer than Canada and have a much greater historic trading relationship, the agreement with the UK presents far more risks to the EU.Is the UK asking for greater access than Canada, Japan or South Korea?
If we are, I agree the UK has to give somewhere.
I am not prepared to accept that argument and hopefully neither is Boris.Because we are much closer than Canada and have a much greater historic trading relationship, the agreement with the UK presents far more risks to the EU.
That's entirely consistent with the Brexiter view that distance doesn't matter in issues of trade. But also entirely wrong, as I have explained many times on this and the previous thread.I am not prepared to accept that argument and hopefully neither is Boris.
In your opinion. In the days of sailing ships it certainly mattered. In these days of very large container carriers for low value freight and 747 freighters for high value, distance is irrelevant. High value electronics from Japan can be in the EU in hours.That's entirely consistent with the Brexiter view that distance doesn't matter in issues of trade. But also entirely wrong, as I have explained many times on this and the previous thread.
In your opinion.In your opinion. In the days of sailing ships it certainly mattered. In these days of very large container carriers for low value freight and 747 freighters for high value, distance is irrelevant. High value electronics from Japan can be in the EU in hours.
This move by the EU is simply the latest in a long line of ploys to tie down the UK to dynamic harmonisation, to stifle FTAs with other countries, the thought of which terrifies the club.
With other third countries however there is a degree of convergence of certain standards. The UK has categorically said that they wish to diverge and so the off-the -shelf deal Johnson is hoping for (I don't believe he is after this and it is a no-deal he desires which he can blame entirely on the EU), simply isn't available to him, so all the gateaux and cake references I'm afraid still sit with the UK and their fantasy expectations.
We'll see who will be eating cake come 2021.
Is the UK asking for greater access than Canada, Japan or South Korea?
If we are, I agree the UK has to give somewhere.
There's also the issue that companies have built up their trading relationships over decades and these are now to be wrenched apart, with them being expected to establish new ones with more distant and less well known economies that already have established relationships of their own.
That's true but irrelevant. If all companies were able to adapt to changing market conditions then we'd still have Woolworths and Maplin.Any Corporation/Company in business worth their salt adapt and evolve all the time. It's the way to survive.
That's what we chose.It is easy, we just have to do as the EU says and follow rules in which we no longer have a say. Seems straightforward to me.
Well-established, well-run businesses with their trading relationships built up carefully over decades don't expect to be shafted by their own government.Any Corporation/Company in business worth their salt adapt and evolve all the time. It's the way to survive.