Tissue begging on trains

[90sWereBetter]

Is it just me, or is this phenomenon somewhat getting worse in and around London? Just before Christmas I kept seeing this happen on various Thameslink and Southern trains radiating from London Bridge. This also occurred on the Northern Line between Tooting and the Clapham stations, a lady working her way down the train and then swapping for a southbound as soon as we reached the island platform at Clapham North...

On Tuesday I witnessed this happen on the GEML for the first time. A distinctly shifty-looking gentleman got on at Chelmsford, and as soon as the doors shut he began handing out his laminated notes begging people to buy tissues. He actually had the cheek to start with the first class section at the rear of the train (where I was sitting, it was 360110), also failing to notice one of the passengers was an off-duty staff member. Although he was still on the train when I got off at Shenfield, I imagine he didn't get much further...

The East London Line services now have announcements asking people to donate to charity if they see people begging, so presumably this is a major problem on the Overground.

 

[Edders23]

Once the complaints start rolling in the transport police will get involved

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Yes recently I've had this multiple times on the Piccadilly Line and District Line and travelling to East Croydon on Thameslink.

Before the last 2 months that hadn't happened to me on the train for like 5 years, I'm not sure why the frequency of people doing it has increased so much in the last 2 months.

 

[Esker-pades]

He actually had the cheek to start with the first class section

Why is starting in first class so bad? From a purely economics view, first class is more likely to contain wealthier people.

 

[Acton1991]

They are very frequent on the GWML from Paddington to Reading, often on TfL Rail. It’s the same people each time - not sure where they enter and exit though.

 

[Mag_seven]

Anyone encountering this should report it to the BTP via the normal "See it, say it, sorted" procedure.

 

[Ivor]

On Southern last Saturday afternoon out of Clapham Junction a guy walking through (no tissues) but asking for money for food/accommodation, he jumped off at Gatwick & I saw him board a train back towards London.

I also noticed a few weeks ago on both the District Line at Fulham Broadway towards Wimbledon & Circle Line at High Street Kensington the ‘tissue begging’ & I’ve not seen that for a while.

 

[Taunton]

Anyone encountering this should report it to the BTP via the normal "See it, say it, sorted" procedure.

I'm sure BTP are well aware of it. Whether they achieve anything meaningful about it (the "sorted" bit) is another matter.

It seems to be spreading again at traffic signals in London as well. The organisers seem to be traffic engineers, as they identify those with the longest red times.

 

[Parallel]

I have only experienced this once, between London Liverpool Street and Broxbourne.Not sure where they joined or alighted though. Also, I don’t regularly travel to/around London.

 

[matt_world2004]

Uxbridge to harrow on the met has this problem , they do shifts and changeover their shifts at Ruislip using a paper travelcard between them

Suspiciously organised for an expression of poverty

 

[Jamiescott1]

Yep,southern service from Victoria (not sure of final destination) but I went to Gatwick.

Lady opposite me gave the person money, despite my protests

 

[stj]

Had the "I am a pound short for my fare" at Cardiff Central from a man who sounded and looked genuine.I believed him and gave him a pound.On my return a few hours later he was still at it!

 

[Saperstein]

I once experienced a solo beggar working though a Gatwick Express 387 into London Victoria.

I was near the front (12 car IIRC), I just made out I was on the phone when said beggar come past, he stopped at other seating bays but fellow pax just shook their heads.

He then walked back along the train. Not wanting to start another DOO debate but..

The only other incident I recall was on the London Underground, had just boarded at Tottenham Court Road (central line) and noticed this girl aged I think late teens early 20’s, she was unkempt and was walking up and down the carriage with a plastic beaker.

There was one bloke, well dressed looked of a similar age and I’m sure they had eye contact and that they knew each other or working together.

When I alighted at Liverpool Street I felt so nervous going up the steps, it was a really weird feeling, almost the feeling you get when you think you’ve seen a ghost!

MESSAGE ENDS
Saperstein.

 

[gazzaa2]

I wish they'd give them to passengers who sniff their way through their whole journey.

 

[GarethW]

If they were doing face masks they’d make a bomb!

 

[DVD]

I see occasional tissue beggars on Southeastern's Sidcup line. What puzzles me is that some people must be giving them money, otherwise why would they continue doing it ? I can't think of any good reason why people would donate, unless it's pity (or fear of reprisal if they don't?). The ones I've seen usually look pretty 'normal' with no outward signs of poverty or being in need, so why would anyone give them money ? Baffling

 

[LMS 4F]

I recall people begging on the tube in Central London at least 20 years ago. The young man asked for our attention and then related his story as to why he need the money. No attempt to sell us anything and no donation from me nor anyone else as I recall.

 

[pt_mad]

Have to wonder what we were expecting in an age of austerity and a housing crisis though. Thinking deeply about it, most of the public are sympathetic to the homeless however they feel uncomfortable when they are asked any spare change etc. Which is understandable for many.

However, there was a very eye opening report on BBC Victoria Derbyshire last week just gone where Victoria spent a night talking to homeless and rough sleepers in London.
Basically the gist of the situation is you have to eat, and to do that it's a case of beg, steal, or sell yourself. The option with the least loss of dignity out of those three terrible choices would likely be to beg.

Hearing that from the poor people who find themselves in that terrible situation definitely puts a different perspective on things.

The other most common feeling they mentioned was that the worst thing is feeling ignored. Made several of the people on the report burst into tears as they said it.

 

[gazzaa2]

Have to wonder what we were expecting in an age of austerity and a housing crisis though. Thinking deeply about it, most of the public are sympathetic to the homeless however they feel uncomfortable when they are asked any spare change etc. Which is understandable for many.

Rough sleeping and housing crisis is a real problem. Generally though people walking around the town begging for money are trying to feed a drug habbit and these are the people who know how to target people and will be more successful than some poor sod in a shop doorway with a sleeping bag.

 

[pt_mad]

Rough sleeping and housing crisis is a real problem. Generally though people walking around the town begging for money are trying to feed a drug habbit.

And many of the people in the Victoria Derbyshire report described the drugs they have taken. One lady managed to get clean whilst still being homeless to this day (last week when the report was aired).

I personally am not at all shocked that anyone who might not have a permanent home might have addiction problems. They don't have the stability or routine society gives most of us. Rather, time would likely drag, to the point of horror. And, it's freezing for anyone to be outside for most of their time, and many describe needing to desensitise to survive, as well as being at risk of being attacked regularly.

 

[dk1]

People encourage them by giving to them. I'd be making announcements not to if I was the driver & hopefully TOCs suffering from this will start advertising not to via the PIS screens.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Had the "I am a pound short for my fare" at Cardiff Central from a man who sounded and looked genuine.I believed him and gave him a pound.On my return a few hours later he was still at it!

I've encountered that at London termini. Like you, I feel sympathetic and, on a number of occasions, have offered to buy the 'stranded' person a ticket but, funnily enough, they always disappear on the way to the booking office.
Maybe one day I'll meet someone who calls my bluff because they know how to get a refund on an unused ticket...

 

[pt_mad]

People encourage them by giving to them. I'd be making announcements not to if I was the driver & hopefully TOCs suffering from this will start advertising not to via the PIS screens.

What would the PIS screen message say? That could potentially end up being a PR distaser. I can't imagine it could say no begging.

 

[dk1]

What would the PIS screen message say? That could potentially end up being a PR distaser. I can't imagine it could say no begging.

It would if I had my way. It's nothing more, nothing less. Makes people feel awkward. It wouldn't be tolerated in a bar or restaurant. Really is uncomfortable for many people.

 

[pt_mad]

It would if I had my way. It's nothing more, nothing less. Makes people feel awkward. It wouldn't be tolerated in a bar or restaurant. Really is uncomfortable for many people.

I guess you're right it probably wouldn't be tolerated on classic private premises. The railway (station) a public place though, open to all rich or poor, lots of places of shelter at stations and the land technically being owned by the public. It's not quite the same as say a supermarket. More similar to say a council owned shopping precinct.

The deeper question behind all this is what can be done at source to stop people needing to do this to make a living in the first place? I can't imagine they have jobs as selling odds and ends for change can't exactly be dignified for them. So how do we expect them to live? Nobody can live on nothing.

 

[dk1]

I guess you're right it probably wouldn't be tolerated on classic private premises. The railway being a public place though, open to all rich or poor, lots of places of shelter at stations and the land technically being owned by the public. It's not quite the same as say a supermarket. More similar to say a council owned shopping precinct.

I wouldn't call railways or stations public places as such. They have the right to close them off or insist on passengers becoming customers before they enter platforms or trains too.

 

[Robertj21a]

I once experienced a solo beggar working though a Gatwick Express 387 into London Victoria.

I was near the front (12 car IIRC), I just made out I was on the phone when said beggar come past, he stopped at other seating bays but fellow pax just shook their heads.

He then walked back along the train. Not wanting to start another DOO debate but..

The only other incident I recall was on the London Underground, had just boarded at Tottenham Court Road (central line) and noticed this girl aged I think late teens early 20’s, she was unkempt and was walking up and down the carriage with a plastic beaker.

There was one bloke, well dressed looked of a similar age and I’m sure they had eye contact and that they knew each other or working together.

When I alighted at Liverpool Street I felt so nervous going up the steps, it was a really weird feeling, almost the feeling you get when you think you’ve seen a ghost!

MESSAGE ENDS
Saperstein.

Nervous ? - what on earth are you on about. Beggars are everywhere, in the UK and abroad. The advice is always the same, ignore them and, if you wish, donate to a recognised charity.

 

[RichT54]

BTP appear to take it seriously enough to actually have a web page about tissue begging:

http://www.btp.police.uk/safety_on_the_railway/safety_on_and_near_the_railway/tissue_begging.aspx

Some people who sell tissues or beg on the railways are vulnerable, and officers will assist them to access services to get the support they need. However, we will take action against persistent offenders who break the law or intimidate passengers.

Both plying a trade and begging on board a train or at a station are both offences under the Railway Byelaws (7.2).

What you can do

Please do not encourage tissue selling if you see it on your journey. Instead, text us on 61016 with:

• The service you’re travelling on
• The carriage you’re travelling in
• How many are involved
• Their description(s)
• Any other information that can help us

We’ll text you back with any further information required and updates.

Alternatively, report it to us on 0800 40 50 40

 

[Monty]

Tissue begging propped up at least five years ago (or at least when I first saw it) but then seemed to die off slowly, but it appears to be back. I was working a train to Portsmouth via Basingstoke approaching Winchester last week and as I was doing my rounds and checking tickets I had gotten a number of complaints of a lady begging. I investigated and sure enough it was a Romanian woman in her mid 30s trying to sell her tissues. I invited her to leave at the next stop (which she did), but bizarrely produced a smart phone from her bag and started filming not me but my passengers. Anyway she got off and had a bit of a strop about it and i just ding dinged and went on my merry way.

What I will say is that many of these tissue beggars have a whiff of organised crime about them, many are from Eastern Europe (often Romania), sometimes travel in small groups, wearing undamaged clothes and more importantly clean. These people do not come across as your typical homeless person who has hit very hard times. The fact they will often have a message printed from a computer to place with their tissues tells me a lot of planning goes into this little racket they have going one. I do wonder if the lady I dealt with last week got her phone out to take evidence she was asked to leave the train for her bosses???

 

[yorkie]

Please never give money to any beggars.

If anyone wants to give money, choose a charity instead.

I once experienced a solo beggar working though a Gatwick Express 387 into London Victoria.

I was near the front (12 car IIRC), I just made out I was on the phone when said beggar come past, he stopped at other seating bays but fellow pax just shook their heads.

GTR usually have On Board Supervisors (OBS) on their GX branded services so I expect it won't be long before he is dealt with.

He then walked back along the train. Not wanting to start another DOO debate but..

The method of operation of the train has anything to do with this!