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Huddersfield to Westtown (Dewsbury) - Public Consultation

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wellhouse

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With Public Consultation now under way for this scheme, it deserves a dedicated Thread away from general discussion on the entire Transpennine Upgrade. As and when further schemes are announced, they might also deserve dedicated Threads.

Some of the info below is already buried in that thread, so forgive me for repeating it.

The consultation website currently shows only a Route Overview, but with the exception of Huddersfield Station, the graphics on display at the Public Drop-In Events showing more detail of each section of the scheme have yet to be uploaded. Apparently there is a problem with the size of the files, but they are promised to be available very soon.

https://consultations.networkrail.co.uk/communications/huddersfield-to-westtown-dewsbury/

Much is yet to be determined, so the published plans are far from definitive. Conversation with the Network Rail staff established the following;

OUTLINE SCHEDULE

January 2020 Phase 2 Public Consultation
Autumn 2020 Submission of Transport and Works Act Order (TWAO) Application
Spring 2021 Potential Public Enquiry
Winter 2021 Secretary Of State decision on TWAO Application
2022 Start On Site (subject to TWAO Consent)

Modern Railways readers will be familiar with Captain Deltic's Third Law of Informed Sources: - "Always mistrust schedules based on the seasons"

Phasing of the works has not yet been considered, so specific predictions of blockades, bustitution, Huddersfield reversals and diversions are idle speculation at this stage.

BENEFITS

The aim is to provide resilient and reliable capacity for 6 Fast Trains per hour, and to support the existing level of local services and an hourly freight path. It was noteworthy that the Network Rail representatives were not too familiar with the existing service pattern. 2 tph between Huddersfield and Leeds was mentioned, but it was unclear whether these included the existing service via Halifax and Bradford or a second service via Dewsbury. Stopping services towards Manchester and Leeds are still expected to terminate at Huddersfield.

Although the literature cites ‘improving journey times’, any time savings will be incidental. It also cites ‘more frequent trains’, but any improvement seems to be limited to fast services, since no additional capacity is offered towards Brighouse or Wakefield.

LAND ACQUISITION

Most of the scheme is confined to existing Network Rail Land, but it is proposed to acquire some land to the south between Bradley Junction and Heaton Lodge Junction to ease the radius of the fast lines.

HUDDERSFIELD STATION

The track and platform plan shown is far from final and carries no platform numbers for reference, but it shows (from south to north)

Existing Platform 2 for Penistone Line, with single track running through reopened bore of Huddersfield Tunnel to Springwood Junction, eliminating conflict between Sheffield services and services towards Manchester

Existing Through Platform 1

Existing Island with Existing Through Platforms 4 and 8, and elimination of existing East-facing Bay Platforms 5&6.

New Island with Through Platform and a single East-facing Bay as the northernmost Platform.

It seems clear that the 2 northern through Platforms will be occupied by terminating local services, but there is no indication which, or how many Platforms will have bi-directional signalling. The layout east of the station suggests that the existing Platforms 1 and 4 will serve fast services.

LOCAL STATIONS, FOUR-TRACKING & ELECTRIFICATION

Deighton, Mirfield and Ravensthorpe are all to be rebuilt, with Ravensthorpe relocated westwards to allow local connections towards both Leeds and Wakefield. Rather unsophisticated graphics indicate lifts at each station. While Network Rail are open to collaboration with other stakeholders such as local authorities to improve provision, the only parking improvements in the scheme are a commitment to 3 Blue Badge Spaces at each station.

East of Huddersfield Tunnels the southern pair of tracks will be dedicated to fast Transpennine Services, with local services on the northern pair. The rebuilt Deighton, Mirfield and Ravensthorpe stations will have platforms only on the local lines. All four tracks are to be electrified, with further electrification anticipated to Leeds (but no mention of any further electrification beyond Leeds towards York or Selby, or West towards Standedge)

The overall capacity, together with provision of platforms for local stations only on the slow lines and suggested junctions, appears to restrict options for diversion between fast and slow lines during engineering works.

There is no preferred option for a fly-over or dive-under for grade separation at Thornhill Junction (Ravensthorpe), although thorough surveys have yet to be undertaken. The Consultation invites the Public to express a preference.

PUBLIC CONSULATION OVERVIEW

The focus of the Consultation seems to be aimed very much at residents and businesses who will be affected by the works rather than passengers who will use the improved infrastructure. Question 5 on the Consultation Form asks ‘What is most important to you when considering the development of rail infrastructure projects?’ The options are;
*Residents and the community
*The environment
*The local road network
*Local employment opportunities
*Potential disruption to existing rail services while under construction
*Other

It is quite remarkable that that ‘Improvement to rail services’ or ‘Benefits to passengers’ are not even suggested as possible important issues.

Since the proposals are so far from finalised, I urge all with an interest in improved Transpennine and local services to participate in this Public Consultation, and, perhaps, share their submissions here.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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Isn't it the case that services leaving or arriving into platform 2 already don't conflict with the Manchester line? This can be witnessed daily in the evening peak, when the peak extra Sheffield leaves P1/P4 just as the previous arrival draws into P2. Unless they're referring to the possibility of slewing the P1 track nearer to P4, and further widening P1 much like happened in 1988/89- something I believe has been mooted as a possibility...

I can only hope they'll redo the overall roof if they do that!
 

AndyHudds

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I think it's a mistake not making car parking provision at either Deighton, Mirfield and Ravensthorpe. Mirfield is reduced to heavy parking along the roadside even though it does have a small car park whereas Deighton and Ravensthorpe has nothing at all, Deighton isn't even served by buses aside from a Sunday!!!

It's also disappointing if there is no increase in frequency of stopping services. The Brighouse/Halifax/Bradford should be at least twice and hour and the Leeds stopper from Huddersfield I don't think it's unreasonable to have 3 an hour at 20 minute intervals.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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I think it's a mistake not making car parking provision at either Deighton, Mirfield and Ravensthorpe. Mirfield is reduced to heavy parking along the roadside even though it does have a small car park whereas Deighton and Ravensthorpe has nothing at all, Deighton isn't even served by buses aside from a Sunday!!!

It's also disappointing if there is no increase in frequency of stopping services. The Brighouse/Halifax/Bradford should be at least twice and hour and the Leeds stopper from Huddersfield I don't think it's unreasonable to have 3 an hour at 20 minute intervals.
Deighton station is also relocating, to between Bradley junction and the bridge carrying Leeds Road over the railway. There should be space to put a decent-sized car park in there so that does seem to be an oversight unless it'll be dealt with in a separate process.

Increasing the frequency of the stoppers would probably boost usage, but based on loadings outside of the peaks, 3tph would be overkill at least initially. Once wires are up all the way to Leeds, a quick-off-the-mark EMU would be able to keep out of the way of the fasts once back on the 2-track section beyond the scope of this planning application. 2tph stoppers, evenly spread, should definitely be the target.
 

AndyHudds

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Deighton station is also relocating, to between Bradley junction and the bridge carrying Leeds Road over the railway. There should be space to put a decent-sized car park in there so that does seem to be an oversight unless it'll be dealt with in a separate process.

Increasing the frequency of the stoppers would probably boost usage, but based on loadings outside of the peaks, 3tph would be overkill at least initially. Once wires are up all the way to Leeds, a quick-off-the-mark EMU would be able to keep out of the way of the fasts once back on the 2-track section beyond the scope of this planning application. 2tph stoppers, evenly spread, should definitely be the target.

Oh I didn't realise Deighton was relocating too.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Oh I didn't realise Deighton was relocating too.
It's covered in the broader route upgrade thread, moving to Bradley. The lack of a mention of this in the consultation documents is a bit concerning (along with the proposal to remove a conflict which doesn't exist: the line from Sheffield into platform 2 already doesn't touch the up main) but then this is Kirklees Council so I shouldn't be surprised!
 

Spartacus

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Network Rail has released drawings showing the fine detail of its £1bn upgrade plan for the line between Huddersfield, Mirfield and Ravensthorpe.

Public consultation has begun for ambitious plans to increase the capacity and speed of the route in Kirklees.

Rail chiefs plan to double the tracks from two to four to allow express services to overtake the stopping services between Manchester and Leeds.

It has been dubbed the most crucial part of the £2.9bn trans-Pennine electrification project.

Six maps have now been published showing the station moves, line upgrades and more than two dozen bridge alterations and other infrastructure plans.

The maps reveal work will be required on a bridge over the line on one of Huddersfield's busiest roads - the A62 Leeds Road near the Audi dealership at Bradley.
Huddersfield Examiner’s covered it in their usual fashion, but they do at least have the maps. https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news...allery/maps-reveal-finer-details-1bn-16896794

I’m actually rather surprised by the amount of work planned east of Ravensthorpe, I’d always thought it would follow the current alignment until west of the canal, but it’s shown on a new alignment with a new bridge, presumably to maintain speed instead of having to slow down.

Moderator note: for suggestions/ideas regarding this, please use https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nts-are-made-in-the-huddersfield-area.203036/ thanks!
 
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wellhouse

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the graphics on display at the Public Drop-In Events showing more detail of each section of the scheme have yet to be uploaded
Links to the section detail graphics are now avaialable on the site.

Isn't it the case that services leaving or arriving into platform 2 already don't conflict with the Manchester line
Apologies for lack of clarity in the OP. I should have said 'maintaining' rather than 'eliminating'

this is Kirklees Council so I shouldn't be surprised!
This is a Network Rail Consultation, not Kirklees Council

There should be space to put a decent-sized car park in there so that does seem to be an oversight unless it'll be dealt with in a separate process
There is of course a need for increased car parking at all 4 stations, including to the north of Huddersfield station, but it's not an oversight, it's just not part of this scheme. As mentioned in the OP, Network Rail are open to additional car parking provision, but look to other agencies such as West Yorkshire Combined Authority or Kirklees to lead on this.

It's also disappointing if there is no increase in frequency of stopping services
Absolutely. 2tph should be the minimum frequency of local services within West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester, especially when connections are taken into consideration. Further thought might be given to routeing at least one Transpennine service (one of the Newcastles?) via Wakefield Kirkgate to York to release capacity between Dewsbury and Leeds. Capacity problems on The Penistone Line might be addressed by reinstatement of the Horbury West Curve to allow a fast Huddersfield/Barnsley/Sheffield service. Both concepts would require additional capacity towards Healey Mills. This could well be cheaper than extension of loops and selective redoubling to increase service frequency between Huddersfield and Barnsley. At the very least, capacity within this scheme should be sufficient to allow for such developments in the future without further major resignalling or remodelling.

It's covered in the broader route upgrade thread, moving to Bradley. The lack of a mention of this in the consultation documents is a bit concerning
This is clear now that all the graphics have been made available online. It is disappointing that these graphics are not in the consultation leaflet distributed at the drop-in events.
 

xotGD

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Is Deighton actually being moved? The linked document says:

"The location of Deighton Station and its surrounding constraints, means accommodating the additional tracks and platforms has been difficult to achieve. However, our proposal represents the best solution to retain the station at its current location based on information collected to date."
 

61653 HTAFC

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Is Deighton actually being moved? The linked document says:

"The location of Deighton Station and its surrounding constraints, means accommodating the additional tracks and platforms has been difficult to achieve. However, our proposal represents the best solution to retain the station at its current location based on information collected to date."
The maps posted as part of the overall upgrade (see the main thread) indicated moving the station around 200m towards Bradley Junction, near to where the car dealership is. If it was to stay on the same site as it is today, the platforms would need dismantling and moving anyway. The current site has no room for car parking, and the road bridge carrying Whitacre Street over the railway is in poor condition, with weight restrictions, and has been narrowed to a single track road over said bridge.

EDIT: as you say, this latest information seems to suggest retaining the existing location, which seems odd considering that the documents readily admit the constraints of that location. Then again the initial maps also showed the middle line at Dewsbury being removed, which seems counter-intuitive if we want to boost capacity.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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No expense spared on those CGI mockups of the stations. Wow!
Those bridges look particularly ugly! Strange that the Deighton render appears to show the retaining wall that exists at the proposed new location, when all the information suggests NOT moving the station to Bradley as was cited in the earlier plans. I'd also argue that there's a case for providing platforms on the fast lines at Mirfield, so that a service can still be provided if the slows are closed for maintenance.
 

Bantamzen

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Is Deighton actually being moved? The linked document says:

"The location of Deighton Station and its surrounding constraints, means accommodating the additional tracks and platforms has been difficult to achieve. However, our proposal represents the best solution to retain the station at its current location based on information collected to date."

Well looking at the map Deighton definitely moves to the west, either that or the platforms get shortened a lot to allow room for the dive under of the slow lines to Wakefield.
 

NorthernSpirit

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Deighton station is also relocating, to between Bradley junction and the bridge carrying Leeds Road over the railway. There should be space to put a decent-sized car park in there so that does seem to be an oversight unless it'll be dealt with in a separate process.

Increasing the frequency of the stoppers would probably boost usage, but based on loadings outside of the peaks, 3tph would be overkill at least initially. Once wires are up all the way to Leeds, a quick-off-the-mark EMU would be able to keep out of the way of the fasts once back on the 2-track section beyond the scope of this planning application. 2tph stoppers, evenly spread, should definitely be the target.

If Deighton is indeed being relocated it would make sense to both relocate it to a more suitable location and to advertise the station as a parkway station for Huddersfield (and south Kirklees in general). However if its being retained at its current location that wall just east of the station on the Leeds bound side would need to be removed and the plaforms being placed further back but from what I gather Deighton still retains its wooden platforms so it'd need ot be a knock down and rebuild job.
 

61653 HTAFC

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If Deighton is indeed being relocated it would make sense to both relocate it to a more suitable location and to advertise the station as a parkway station for Huddersfield (and south Kirklees in general). However if its being retained at its current location that wall just east of the station on the Leeds bound side would need to be removed and the plaforms being placed further back but from what I gather Deighton still retains its wooden platforms so it'd need ot be a knock down and rebuild job.
It's currently looking like the "preferred option" for Deighton is retaining the current location. Either way though it will be a knock down and rebuild job. The current timber platforms (and steel-framed but still flimsy extensions) will be easy enough to get rid of, but any replacement will be more "permanent", so they need to be sure that they've chosen the better site. I'm not convinced the current site is better than the proposed new one.

The bridge carrying Whitacre Street over the station (which acts as the current footbridge) will probably be demolished and replaced either way, as there's been weight restrictions on it for donkey's years.
 

plarailfan

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I went along to the public consultation in Mirfield today and was told that the current plan, is to keep Deighton station at the existing site and widen the cutting, so the new platforms can be fitted in along with the four tracks.
Whitacre Street bridge at Deighton station will be replaced and although there will not be a car park, there will be a handful of disabled spaces provided.
 

AndyHudds

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I went along to the public consultation in Mirfield today and was told that the current plan, is to keep Deighton station at the existing site and widen the cutting, so the new platforms can be fitted in along with the four tracks.
Whitacre Street bridge at Deighton station will be replaced and although there will not be a car park, there will be a handful of disabled spaces provided.

So its getting a full rebuild? Any other bits of info gleaned. I did intend to go to one of the Huddersfield consultations but couldn't due to work.
 

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I went along to the public consultation in Mirfield yesterday. Like @plarailfan, I found that Deighton is planned to stay where it is - I did question this given what I had seen but was advised (by one of the scheme designers, I think) that the current plans are to rebuild on the existing site.

There were printouts for the proposed flying junction at Thornhill, showing both options of the fasts going under or over the slows and the change of course this would have. The new lines from Dewsbury will be on a partally altered course regardless and the bridge at Ravensthorpe (that carries Station Road across the railway) will also need rebuilding for electrification, but with the flyover approach would need deviating from its current heading.

There was some confusion with others there thinking that the electrification would cease at Westtown - this was on the boards as stating it would continue to Leeds, but wasn't the major point and was probably read past by some people. It also seemed the consultants there were not really aware of plans between Westtown and Leeds as it isn't part of their sceheme (love the joined up thinking...)

Someone else also asked whether the relocation of Ravensthorpe would lead to more stopping services, particularly on Sundays, with this being answered that it was outside of their remit but would be up to the TOC's and DfT to decide and not be part of the scheme.

Timelines were given for the consultations (now and early 2020), land acquisition paperwork etc (2021 I think, from memory) and ultimate proposed sign off of the project (2022) - I asked what the proposed timescales for build were looking like - naturally early days yet with the design stage - was advised that it would depend on whether it was a "big bang" or piecemeal approach but suggested 5-6 years. This would give a completion of around 2028/2029.
 
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Meerkat

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I know it is easy from the simple outside, but that seems ages away!
 

wellhouse

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Flyers were being handed out at Huddersfield today (Monday 9th March) announcing a further round of public consultation events.
 

Tim_UK

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https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...te-upgrade/huddersfield-to-westtown-dewsbury/

The page updated.

Dates of events below.


From Monday 16 March 2020, you will be able to view our updated proposals and detailed plans in more detail online.
Public drop-in events
We are holding eight drop-in events in the Huddersfield to Westtown (Dewsbury) area. Join us for our second round of events where you can come and meet our specialists who will be on hand to show you our plans and answer any questions you may have.

Drop-in to your nearest events:
Location Date Time
Yorkshire Children’s Centre,
Brian Jackson House, New North Parade, Huddersfield, HD1 5JP Tuesday 17 March
Friday 20 March 12:00 – 19:00
12:00 – 18:30
Mirfield Community Centre,
Water Royd Lane, WF14 9SG Wednesday 18 March
Saturday 21 March 12:00 – 18:00
12:30 – 16:00
Hudawi Cultural Centre,
Great Northern Street, Huddersfield, HD1 6BG Tuesday 24 March 12:00 – 19:00
Deighton Sports Arena,
Deighton Road, HD2 1JP Wednesday 25 March
Friday 27 March 12:00 – 19:00
12:00 – 19:00
Dewsbury West Community Centre, Church Street,
Ravensthorpe, WF13 3LA Saturday 28 March 10:00 – 16:00



 

Class 170101

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Flyers were being handed out at Huddersfield today (Monday 9th March) announcing a further round of public consultation events.

No wonder everything takes so long, how many times do the public need to be consulted?
 

Geeves

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Better to make sure everything has been signed off properly now rather than midway through a potential year long closure don't you agree?
 

Glenn1969

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Plans will be published next week but the TWAO is not going to Shapps until the end of the year so likely start IS probably going to be 2022
 

a_c_skinner

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No wonder everything takes so long, how many times do the public need to be consulted?

You've missed the point. The idea is to waste time, to delay, to obfuscate and avoid development. It is deeply ingrained in the civil service and in the railway is part of the Beeching folk memory - that the thing to do with rail is to limit it.
 

DynamicSpirit

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No wonder everything takes so long, how many times do the public need to be consulted?

I my experience when it comes to large infrastructure projects, it often seems to be twice. First when the proposals are only at broad outline stage and you are seeking general views as to whether the project should go ahead. And a second time when the proposals have become much more refined, and any serious objections or suggestions that came out of the first consultation have been factored in and dealt with - so, at this stage, you're essentially checking whether the detailed proposals for exactly what you are going to build are going to cause any problems to the local community that you haven't realised.
 

matacaster

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Is it planned to demolish bridges at East of hudds Station, rebuild wider, straighter and in same direction as railway (ie without doing dogleg) extend platforms over part of widened viaduct?
 

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Is it planned to demolish bridges at East of hudds Station, rebuild wider, straighter and in same direction as railway (ie without doing dogleg) extend platforms over part of widened viaduct?
The disused bridges from the previous four-track formation are mostly still in place, presumably they'll each be assessed and either refurbished or replaced. Any missing ones will obviously need new. The viaduct immediately East of the station (over the ring-road) is already wide enough for four tracks, but is reportedly in poor condition so complete replacement is being considered.

AIUI the fast lines will be aligned to give 90/100mph running wherever possible.

I don't believe there are any plans to extend the platforms on to the viaduct, as the cost would be significant even as part of an already major project. With regard to the dog legs, as all trains stop at Huddersfield they aren't really a problem, but hopefully the opportunity will be taken to sort out Platform 8's curvature.
 
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NorthernSpirit

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The viaduct immediately East of the station (over the ring-road) is already wide enough for four tracks, but is reportedly in poor condition so complete replacement is being considered.

What will replace it will be anyones guess, but I don't think it'll be a like for like replacement. Especially when there's numourous retail units that are located in the arches themselves who'll need to relocate once the go ahead is given to demolish to the exisiting struture.
 
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