Sunday Trading Laws Discussion

[boyaloud]

Moderator note = posts #1-#5 originally in this thread:

Supermarkets and Covid-19

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/enforcement-of-the-new-rules-on-social-distancing-unnecessary-journeys-etc.202681/page-34#post-4529415 - Asking supermarkets to remove non essential items from sale is a complete non-starter. Staff need to be filling shelves, not...

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Just like Morrisons were very late in online ordering.

And very late in opening on Sunday in the 90s. (oT but does it drive others nuts that we still have the ridiculous Sunday trading laws from the 90s? Scotland got rid of them over 5 years ago, so all tesco extras etc are 24 hours on Sunday there now! All shops can open any hours they like on Sundays.)

 

[Hadders]

Restricted hours on Sundays doesn’t bother me at all. I think it’s good for Society for one day a week to be a little bit different to the rest.

 

[westv]

Restricted hours on Sundays doesn’t bother me at all. I think it’s good for Society for one day a week to be a little bit different to the rest.

And it's not THAT restricted either.

 

[ChrisC]

Restricted hours on Sundays doesn’t bother me at all. I think it’s good for Society for one day a week to be a little bit different to the rest.

I used to love Sunday’s, especially the mornings, when everywhere was quiet and hardly any traffic on the roads. I’ve really enjoyed the absence of traffic during this lockdown without the constant noise of traffic and it’s pullution. Unfortunately, now that so many people work 6 days a week, the shops have to open on Sundays and Sunday shopping seems to have become a family leisure activity.

 

[bramling]

I used to love Sunday’s, especially the mornings, when everywhere was quiet and hardly any traffic on the roads. I’ve really enjoyed the absence of traffic during this lockdown without the constant noise of traffic and it’s pullution. Unfortunately, now that so many people work 6 days a week, the shops have to open on Sundays and Sunday shopping seems to have become a family leisure activity.

Agreed 100%. I’d very happily go back to quiet Sundays.

 

[AM9]

Agreed 100%. I’d very happily go back to quiet Sundays.

But that would be unfortunate for those that work on the other 6 days.

 

[gordonthemoron]

will the aftermath of COVID-19 lockdown result in longer shop opening hours (including Sunday) and longer pub opening hours to cope with social distancing and more unusual work patterns?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed 100%. I’d very happily go back to quiet Sundays.

Just get up early and enjoy the mornings. Nobody really goes shopping until lunchtime.

 

[route:oxford]

Scotland got rid of them over 5 years ago, so all tesco extras etc are 24 hours on Sunday there now! All shops can open any hours they like on Sundays.)

There's never been any restriction on Sunday opening in Scotland.

Minor changes were made in around 2003 to give shop workers the same right in Scotland to refuse to work on a Sunday as they do in England, and there were various changes to the sale of alcohol.

Supermarkets have been opening 24 hours on a Sunday for at least 30 years.

 

[boyaloud]

The faCT they're
Only open 6 hours is what makes them so busy. if they were open all day like in Scotland that the shoppers would be spread. It's completely crackers that (pre covid) shops in tourist hotspots etc like Oxford St, London would have hoardes of tourists turning up in the morning and having to just wait around for hours as shops aren't open. It's a ridiculous, archaic law in this era of online shopping and struggling high streets.

 

[boyaloud]

There's never been any restriction on Sunday opening in Scotland.

Minor changes were made in around 2003 to give shop workers the same right in Scotland to refuse to work on a Sunday as they do in England, and there were various changes to the sale of alcohol.

Supermarkets have been opening 24 hours on a Sunday for at least 30 years.

Very interesting, thanks.

 

[Mag_seven]

There's never been any restriction on Sunday opening in Scotland.

A fact I always find odd given Scotland's Presbyterian (i.e. Sabbath observing) history.

 

[Mojo]

And it's not THAT restricted either.

Indeed; our Sunday trading hours are some of the most relaxed in Western/Northern Europe!

 

[Iskra]

Sunday is part of my working week. On one hand I like that it's a shorter working day, but on the other it drives me nuts because if I need to buy anything before or after my shift it is usually impossible to do so. It's also annoying because the shorter trading hours means everyone is crammed into those hours making it busier than it would be if people could spread themselves through the day. And despite the fact that Sunday trading is not new, there are always people who are somehow taken by surprise by it and decide to rudely express their dissatisfaction at opening/closing time; it's just an unnecessary source of confrontation in a society that is hardly religious.

 

[Ianno87]

Restricted hours on Sundays doesn’t bother me at all. I think it’s good for Society for one day a week to be a little bit different to the rest.

Agreed 100%. I’d very happily go back to quiet Sundays.

I adore quiet Cambridge at the moment; rather than queuing traffic and pollution everywhere as people just *have* to drive to Argos for an hour just for something to do. A city I can actually enjoy for a change.

If Sunday trading were restricted to, say, Supermarkets only or something, I'd be content.

 

[gswindale]

My main issue with Sunday trading in England and Wales is the fact that the hours are different depending on where you are - some areas are 10-4, others 10:30-4:30, others 11-5 and London seems to be 12-6.

If the hours were consistent that would help a lot in my view

 

[Ianno87]

My main issue with Sunday trading in England and Wales is the fact that the hours are different depending on where you are - some areas are 10-4, others 10:30-4:30, others 11-5 and London seems to be 12-6.

If the hours were consistent that would help a lot in my view

I think in the early days of Sunday trading, it tended to be 10-4, but has generally shifted later to 10:30-4:30 or 11-5 over the years (I think, unless you're doing DIY, 1000 is fairly early to be out on a Sunday, so more money is to be made with a later opening).

12-6 is very much a 'City' Thing, presumably reflecting people travelling further to get there for a day out. The Trafford Centre is another 12-6 example.

Down side of 12-6 is more seriously eating into retail workers' ability to have meaningful Sunday evening free time.

 

[scotrail158713]

Restricted hours on Sundays doesn’t bother me at all. I think it’s good for Society for one day a week to be a little bit different to the rest.

When I’m down south and I forget about it then it bothers me

 

[Busaholic]

My main issue with Sunday trading in England and Wales is the fact that the hours are different depending on where you are - some areas are 10-4, others 10:30-4:30, others 11-5 and London seems to be 12-6.

If the hours were consistent that would help a lot in my view

To agree standard opening hours would indicate a cartel, would it not? In Penzance, where three major supermarkets are cheek by jowl with each other, two open 10-4 and one 11-5, so you have seven hours in effect to choose from. The one open after 4 p.m. saw huge queues after about 4.30 up until the Covid restrictions.

 

[Bald Rick]

My main issue with Sunday trading in England and Wales is the fact that the hours are different depending on where you are - some areas are 10-4, others 10:30-4:30, others 11-5 and London seems to be 12-6.

If the hours were consistent that would help a lot in my view

That’s the retailers, not local law or geography. It’s a maximum of 6 hours continuous trading between 1000 and 1800. The retailers can choose themselves which 6 hours, although obviously in large centres it makes sense for them to open at roughly the same time.

 

[gswindale]

To agree standard opening hours would indicate a cartel, would it not? In Penzance, where three major supermarkets are cheek by jowl with each other, two open 10-4 and one 11-5, so you have seven hours in effect to choose from. The one open after 4 p.m. saw huge queues after about 4.30 up until the Covid restrictions.

Not really. If you take somewhere such as The Oracle in Reading, pretty much all the stores there open the same hours. It would be really annoying if say Debenhams opened differently to Waterstones.

 

[gswindale]

That’s the retailers, not local law or geography. It’s a maximum of 6 hours continuous trading between 1000 and 1800. The retailers can choose themselves which 6 hours, although obviously in large centres it makes sense for them to open at roughly the same time.

I understand that, but it does come down to geography in some respects. If most retailers in one town want to open 10-4, then why would say Waterstones stick to their 11-5 that they use elsewhere.

Here most shops in town were open 11-5, although the supermarkets are different (out of town) so if I needed something urgently at 3.55 I knew I was fine, but travelling around I could come face to face with a town where everywhere sure at 4 so now scuppered.

Would make more sense for it to be a fixed 6 hour slot nationally.

 

[Bald Rick]

I understand that, but it does come down to geography in some respects. If most retailers in one town want to open 10-4, then why would say Waterstones stick to their 11-5 that they use elsewhere.

Here most shops in town were open 11-5, although the supermarkets are different (out of town) so if I needed something urgently at 3.55 I knew I was fine, but travelling around I could come face to face with a town where everywhere sure at 4 so now scuppered.

Would make more sense for it to be a fixed 6 hour slot nationally.

Ah, but then us Southerners might not get the customary Sunday lie in!

 

[Snow1964]

There's never been any restriction on Sunday opening in Scotland.

Minor changes were made in around 2003 to give shop workers the same right in Scotland to refuse to work on a Sunday as they do in England, and there were various changes to the sale of alcohol.

Supermarkets have been opening 24 hours on a Sunday for at least 30 years.

And completely different in Northern Ireland where large shops can’t open before 1pm on Sundays

 

[Busaholic]

Not really. If you take somewhere such as The Oracle in Reading, pretty much all the stores there open the same hours. It would be really annoying if say Debenhams opened differently to Waterstones.

A dedicated, named shopping centre is somewhat different, as the operators of it can dictate such things by, for example, choosing when to open and close associated car parks. Even so, if a store chose to stay open later on a Thursday, say, as used to happen in Plymouth for instance, it didn't mean every other large store had to follow that example. If stores are in genuine competition with each other (which Debenhams and Waterstones obviously aren't) then I'd be surprised if they chose exactly the same hours all week.

 

[route:oxford]

Would make more sense for it to be a fixed 6 hour slot nationally.

First of all, you'd need to standardise public transport services on Sundays, in particular the early morning services.

As I understand it, major retailers in London originally chose 12:00 to 18:00 based on when both staff and customers would be able to get into town. It's easy to forget how poor Sunday rail services were in the past.

Thinking about here in Scotland, when I used to do a Sunday shift (not-retail) on a Sunday in the mid 90s, my employer put on a taxi from Stirling as the first train to Glasgow wouldn't get me to the office until around 10:30.

 

[Jamesrob637]

If I came to power, I would keep the 6-hour rule, but allow the sphere to be extended until 08:00-20:00.

In that way, people could be much more flexible and staff could then have more of a choice as to whether they valued a lie-in or a free evening. Plus we customers wouldn't feel as pressed.

 

[GB]

There is a bit logic to why one shop might open 10-4 and another 11-5...it maximizes shopping hours. We have a Sainsbury's that opens 10-4 and and Surrys/Pcworld 11-5. The hours difference either side means sainsbury's isn't taking away potential customers from the other shop at the extreme ends of the period. If they were both 10-4 then one store would lose some footfall as customers would have to choose which to do first.

 

[AM9]

If I came to power, I would keep the 6-hour rule, but allow the sphere to be extended until 08:00-20:00.

In that way, people could be much more flexible and staff could then have more of a choice as to whether they valued a lie-in or a free evening. ...

Not necessarily so. More a case of management could then have more of a choice as to when their shops would be open. In the majority, the staff would have to be,there when the shop wanted them.

 

[Hadders]

In Stevenage there are two large Tesco stores. One opens 10-4 and the other 12-6.