Thanks, D Stock. I must try to keep up !!!All decommissioned now.
Worse here, though, we've got the fourth rail to get you if the third doesn't...In The Taking of Pelham 123* the guard simply pointed out the live rail with his torch...
An absolute classic. One of a number of perfect 70s films capturing what New York was like back then. There was a TV-movie version in between as well, but I haven't seen it. Perhaps it was truer to the original plot.* The original of course, not the rubbish remake. Still my favourite train based movie of all time.
No, because that isn't how power feeding arrangements work.So if there was an region wide power cut some tunnels and stations would immediately go dark?!
Thanks for that, and I totally accept that you shouldn’t be giving out data useful for an attack!No, because that isn't how power feeding arrangements work.
There are six Bulk Supply Points (BSPs) across the network which take in supplies from the DNOs (Distribution Network Operator - these are the organisations that supply electricity to businesses/houses/etc.) At the BSPs, supplies are transformed and distributed at high voltage to substations and transformer rooms where it is transformed & rectified to provide traction power, station lighting, lifts & escalators, pumps, compressors, and certain other services. Hence, the substations, which supply traction current and other local services, do not receive their power from local sources (so if there was a local power cut affecting the area around a traction current substation or a station, trains would not stop running and the lights won't necessarily go out).
Having said that; most stations work on a mixture of supply sources, with part of the supply coming from the DNO (ie. local street power), and the rest of the supply coming from LUL power supply (ie. originating from the BSPs). Further to this, sub-surface stations are fitted with an Off Line Battery Inverter, which is effectively a battery backup for use when both the DNO AND LUL supplies both fail. Note there is more detail to this, however I have not included it here, because it is not obtainable in the public domain. Some stations (none of which are sub-surface) have the majority of their supplies straight from the DNO and these would be affected by a local power failure and would have to close.
A failure of one or more of the BSPs would result in services running in a very short timescale (as well as other services provided by a BSP) as switching can be carried out in a fairly short time. Usually this would be from other BSPs however the emergency generation from Greenwich may be needed in exceptional circumstances.
Apologies for any mistakes in advance - I'm fairly tired and also trying to avoid posting anything from my own knowledge that cannot be obtained from publicly accessible documentation/websites as this is obviously a security issue. I shall have a read tomorrow again of what I've posted but any clarifications won't be taken personally!
This (sort of) happened on the Overground at Peckham Rye in 2017 where passengers were detrained onto live track, although the detainment in this instance was due to a train fault not a power supply issue, and the power had never been turned off. It wasn't so much a "controlling minds not knowing" as a complete cock-up of communication between the overloaded driver and several different controlling and non-controlling minds (RAIB report).In theory it would be possible to have a detrainment take place without any controlling minds knowing.
Between Redbridge and Gants Hill in 1960, a Central Line 'standard' tube stock train had a major electrical arcing issue that caused a fire. The passengers were led out to the next station and the motorman had problems communicating and then isolating the track suppies. The MoT Ministry of Transport investigation and report gave a full account of the event and it's cause. See here:Many years ago I was on a 1992 tube stock Central line train when most of the lights went out and the train suddenly came to a gentle* halt. This was in a tunnel somewhere near to Mile End.
*) ie: slowly, not as if the emergency brake had been invoked.
I never got to find out why it happened and I do not recall the train driver making an announcement explaining what was going on, the expected time duration, etc. Happily the emergency battery powered lights remained illuminated, so whilst it was darker than usual it was not any anyway 'pitch black'.
I think that some very early tube trains (pre-WW1) carried candles for the ultimate emergency lighting system!
However....... I have been in a tunnel in pitch black. In the days of the 1962 tube stock on the Central line the guards would switch the train lights off when travelling above ground on bright sunny days. Especially for trains to Epping the lights could be switched off at Leyton and would stay off for a long while. But, my journeys were to Gants Hill and of course trains on that route re-enter the tunnels immediately after leaving Leytonstone.
There was the one occasion when the guard forgot to switch the lights on at Leytonstone - and since I travel at the front of the trains (so that I will be near the platform exit at Gants Hill) so for a few seconds I was on a train in a tunnel in pitch black. At least, I think it was just a few seconds. In such darkness time is different. Oh and without visual input the usual 'sounds' seem louder. This is not something that I would welcome experiencing again.
I think that some very early tube trains (pre-WW1) carried candles for the ultimate emergency lighting system!
This was certainly the case on A60/62 stock at delivery, and I believe up until refurbishment. Indeed, trailer car 6036 - latterly used as the Rail Adhesion Car - retained a candle in its holder right up until withdrawal in 2018.
Was any thought given to them after the Kings Cross fire? Potentially they were deemed acceptable for emergency-only use, or perhaps never considered?
This was certainly the case on A60/62 stock at delivery, and I believe up until refurbishment. Indeed, trailer car 6036 - latterly used as the Rail Adhesion Car - retained a candle in its holder right up until withdrawal in 2018.
That’s not quite fair as small fires are dealt with locally by staff using extinguishers, red buckets of sand and water no longer adequate.Nowadays a similar incident would have seen the station evacuated, the fire brigade called and thousands of people (passengers) have their travel disrupted. Quite possibly the station staff would not have even tackled the flames, even though it was very small, risking it become a bigger fire by the time the fire brigade had arrived.
A stock?! I was thinking of much older trains! I recall the A stock having battery fed tungsten lights... two above the guards' area plus singles scattered through the rest of the train
Agreed, Train Operators and station staff regularly attend to and put out fires on the track. Whilst the fire brigade legally have to be called, in most cases they do not have to go on the track; if the fire has successfully been put out by staff, confirmation can be given by LU staff on site to the senior fire officer in attendance that the fire is all out.That’s not quite fair as small fires are dealt with locally by staff using extinguishers, red buckets of sand and water no longer adequate.
A Stock certainly had candleholders when built as did District CO/CP Stock
This was certainly the case on A60/62 stock at delivery, and I believe up until refurbishment. Indeed, trailer car 6036 - latterly used as the Rail Adhesion Car - retained a candle in its holder right up until withdrawal in 2018.
I don't know what LU training is like, but when working in labs where it was important our fire extinguisher training (including live fire exercises- much fun!) emphasised that extinguishers are for clearing a path to safety
That’s not quite fair as small fires are dealt with locally by staff using extinguishers, red buckets of sand and water no longer adequate.
A Stock certainly had candleholders when built as did District CO/CP Stock
No train would be prioritised, should this be a network wide failure then local staff would have to organise evacuation, (they are trained to do this). passengers walking forward to the next station unless there are strong reasons not to, people not fit to walk will be left on the train until everyone else is off then a decision will be made about then, as I have said before, a few people on a stalled train is not a big issue, a rammed train is.Let me throw this into the mix. The power failure occurred on the hottest day of the year, On one of the trains a lady had gone into labour. The train was on the Picc between Turnpike Lane and Manor House. On the Northern one train had come to a halt on one of the junction this particular train was crushed loaded as were the trains on the Vic and the Central.
Which trains get priority,. When I worked for LUL I was seconded to Staff development. We created a desk top exercise along these lines (Pardon the Pun). It was very interesting seeing how various groups resolved the issues.