Season ticket refund

[SWT_USER]

If it’s the same issue, I won’t be getting 2 emails from them, I’ll be getting about 10!

To be clear I did get a 'thank you for submitting the form' after I'd submitted, but no email for a few days.

RE the recaptcha issue - I found it worked fine when I typed the form out manually - don't use auto-fill and see if that makes a difference

 

[S_Singh]

To be clear I did get a 'thank you for submitting the form' after I'd submitted, but no email for a few days.

RE the recaptcha issue - I found it worked fine when I typed the form out manually - don't use auto-fill and see if that makes a difference

Tried that, made no difference unfortunately. Have tried my iPhone, my computer and my work computer, have tried Chrome, Safari and Edge doesn’t matter what I try I end up with the same error message

 

[gtat]

If I am interpreting this correctly then season tickets can now be returned and refunded backdated to 17th March (or the date last used, whichever is later).

https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/season-ticket-refunds

That's quite a significant shift in approach, isn't it?

 

[infobleep]

If I am interpreting this correctly then season tickets can now be returned and refunded backdated to 17th March (or the date last used, whichever is later).

https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/season-ticket-refunds

That's quite a significant shift in approach, isn't it?

That is my understanding and I am waiting until things change in terms of lockdown before doing anything further.

 

[father_jack]

If I am interpreting this correctly then season tickets can now be returned and refunded backdated to 17th March (or the date last used, whichever is later).

https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/season-ticket-refunds

That's quite a significant shift in approach, isn't it?

Indeed. It seems when things went up the food chain it was asked "why weren't we doing this from the start...".

At least those staff who backdated refunds in ticket offices contrary to this more sensible advice prior to the announcement can rest easy now

They're still banging on about the £10 admin fee though.

 

[gtat]

That is my understanding and I am waiting until things change in terms of lockdown before doing anything further.

Waiting in case they enhance refunds further (remove admin fee etc) or just because the length of lockdown affects whether it is worth getting a refund?

 

[717001]

South Eastern now have a refund calculator on their website: https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/help-and-contact/get-in-touch/coronavirus-refund-information.

GTR websites say they will be adding one but, presumably the South Eastern one should work ok for any Network Rail Annual tickets. It's giving me an answer very close to the one I had calculated using info in previous posts here (for which, thanks!), but doesn't need a spreadsheet.

Also GN/TL answers on Twitter suggest keeping image sizes below 1MB when submitting their new online form (linked from https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/t...y/coronavirus-information/coronavirus-refunds) and not to expect an automated email confirming that the refund request has been submitted.

 

[Haywain]

A season refund is calculated as the difference between the price paid for the season and the price of a season ticket to cover the period in which the season has been used. All priced at the prevailing rate at the time the original season was purchased. Where the season to be refunded has been used for less than one month the usage will be based on the price of weekly and/or day tickets to give the lowest total price if cheaper than the monthly. Hope this helps.

 

[lauraloo]

Can anyone advise on the calculations for season ticket refund and how much I will get back?
Cost of ticket - £4308 (annual season ticket)
Start date: 9th October
Last date of use: 17th March

 

[island]

Based on the information provided it looks like you bought your ticket from Thameslink. I will calculate the surrender up to today.
Ticket 09•OCT•19 to 08•OCT•20 surrendered on 15•APR•20 – use period 6 months 7 days
Weekly price £107.70
6m7d multiplier 23.94
Price of a ticket to today £2,578.40
Refund payable £1,719.60.

If a claim for backdating is accepted then it would be a use period of 5m9d which is 20.36 times the weekly price or £2,192.80 and the refund payable would then be £2,105.20.

 

[Fiyero]

I work for Hampshire County Council and SWR give us 20% off season tickets. SWR do all the work and I pay them. Would this cause any issues with claiming a refund? I'm at the point now where I don't see myself going back to the office for a while (ticket last used 19/03). I gather the refund would be the annual cost less the monthly tickets (5 months) and an admin charge. Would that be 5 months at full price or would they take 20% off them too? It would make a big difference to the refund and possibly whether I bother. Thanks in advance

 

[island]

With special non-public fares such as this the only certain answer can be to pick up the phone and check.

If I were to guess, I would say they simply work out the difference between what you would have paid for however many months and days you used the season ticket for and the price you paid. Note that season ticket prices are available for any period between one month and 10 months 13 days (and anything up to a year is the same as that), so they won’t take off a whole number of months unless of course that happens to be the exact amount used.

 

[SWT_USER]

Has anyone applied for a refund using SWR's online form?

I did this earlier today (uploading a photo of the ticket cut in half) and submitted the form but received no email acknowledgment of this. Just wondering if I should have done/ if others did? And how long did the refund take to process?

I don't want to be left with a destroyed season ticket and no refund!

I appreciate that a lot of people have been asking this question recently, but has anyone received money from SWR after completing the online form, and how long did it take? Also how was the refund paid, cheque through the post?

 

[MikeWM]

My season ticket refund from GA arrived yesterday, exactly 28 days after applying for it (in person at Cambridge).

 

[MikeWM]

I work for Hampshire County Council and SWR give us 20% off season tickets. SWR do all the work and I pay them. Would this cause any issues with claiming a refund? I'm at the point now where I don't see myself going back to the office for a while (ticket last used 19/03). I gather the refund would be the annual cost less the monthly tickets (5 months) and an admin charge. Would that be 5 months at full price or would they take 20% off them too? It would make a big difference to the refund and possibly whether I bother. Thanks in advance

Cambridgeshire has a similar-sounding scheme for people working in specific companies/locations (eg. the Science Park) where you get 10% off a season by filling in a form when you buy the ticket, and the staff at the station do some sort of cross-checking to establish you're entitled to the discount.

This didn't cause me any issues with a refund - looking at my receipt, they appear to have knocked 10% off throughout the calculation, resulting in a refund 10% less than if the ticket had been full-price to start with, which seems entirely correct.

 

[Fiyero]

With special non-public fares such as this the only certain answer can be to pick up the phone and check.

If I were to guess, I would say they simply work out the difference between what you would have paid for however many months and days you used the season ticket for and the price you paid. Note that season ticket prices are available for any period between one month and 10 months 13 days (and anything up to a year is the same as that), so they won’t take off a whole number of months unless of course that happens to be the exact amount used.

Cambridgeshire has a similar-sounding scheme for people working in specific companies/locations (eg. the Science Park) where you get 10% off a season by filling in a form when you buy the ticket, and the staff at the station do some sort of cross-checking to establish you're entitled to the discount.

This didn't cause me any issues with a refund - looking at my receipt, they appear to have knocked 10% off throughout the calculation, resulting in a refund 10% less than if the ticket had been full-price to start with, which seems entirely correct.

Thank you both. I don’t think they are taking phone calls but I have sent them an email. If they work out a straight percentage it will be fine but if they take off the undiscounted monthly cost of f the discounted annual cost it might not be worth it.

 

[Skie]

Merseyrail issued my refund a day after I sent the email, which is decent! Shame they're still applying the £10 admin charge.

 

[MP33]

My Greater Anglia refund arrived into my bank account a week after I was told that it could take up to 28 days. No confirmation it just appeared in my bank account as a surprise.

A bit more than I was expecting as well.

 

[Dougal2345]

Waiting in case they enhance refunds further (remove admin fee etc) or just because the length of lockdown affects whether it is worth getting a refund?

If the 17th March date remains 'fixed' from now on, I guess it's wise to hold on to my season and see what happens - if lockdown ends very soon, it would be unwise to cash it in, but if it drags on the case for cashing it in gets stronger.

The only concern is if the 17th March date starts moving, as time goes on, into April and May, so that there's a maximum (say) 6-week period you can claim for.

Or if the 17th March offer is instantly withdrawn when an announcement about the end of lockdown is made...

 

[infobleep]

If the 17th March date remains 'fixed' from now on, I guess it's wise to hold on to my season and see what happens - if lockdown ends very soon, it would be unwise to cash it in, but if it drags on the case for cashing it in gets stronger.

The only concern is if the 17th March date starts moving, as time goes on, into April and May, so that there's a maximum (say) 6-week period you can claim for.

Or if the 17th March offer is instantly withdrawn when an announcement about the end of lockdown is made...

I think it would be unfair if they suddenly withdrew it without warning.

If travel starts again but not regular then I might get a cheap season ticket offering a gold card, so that I can still get a third off. Then if more regular travel is possible, I will then do a season ticket change over. Obviously if it went on for longer than a year I might be more out of pocket, depending on amount of travel I did with a third off.

What do others think of that idea?

 

[Fiyero]

Thank you both. I don’t think they are taking phone calls but I have sent them an email. If they work out a straight percentage it will be fine but if they take off the undiscounted monthly cost of f the discounted annual cost it might not be worth it.

It’s been over a week and I haven’t heard back. Not sure if I should just use the form on the normal site. It says to cut the ticket in half but it’s a smart card. I could cut the record card in half?

 

[Haywain]

You should not cut the smart card in half. That is for paper tickets.

 

[Fiyero]

You should not cut the smart card in half. That is for paper tickets.

That’s what I figured. And the reason I reached out to them. I just don’t want to send a claim and have it rejected in a month!

 

[Wallsendmag]

That’s what I figured. And the reason I reached out to them. I just don’t want to send a claim and have it rejected in a month!

The Season on your smartcard can be hotlisted as long as they have the card ISRN (long number)

 

[sefton]

Given that the Competition and Markets Authority has given advice on refunds on services which customers have not been able to use due to the ‘lockdown’ legislation, I wonder how this impacts on season ticket refunds, and in particular the stance that the end period of the ticket comprises ‘free’ travel.

Statement on coronavirus (COVID-19), consumer contracts, cancellation and refunds

www.gov.uk

With the cost of season tickets it might be worthwhile for people to submit a claim to the courts if the rail companies continue to refuse to fairly refund season tickets (or perhaps a s75 claim if paid by credit card).

 

[island]

Can you point me to where in that guidance it says season ticket refunds should be provided pro-rata rather than based on what a ticket for the shorter period should have cost please?

 

[sefton]

Can you point me to where in that guidance it says season ticket refunds should be provided pro-rata rather than based on what a ticket for the shorter period should have cost please?

Where a consumer receives regular services in exchange for a regular payment as part of an ongoing contract, the CMA considers that consumer protection law:

• will normally require the consumer to be offered a refund for any services they have already paid for but that are not provided by the business or which the consumer is not allowed to use because of Government public health measures (this may be a partial refund of the total amount the consumer has paid, to reflect the value of the services already provided);

So the refund should “reflect the value of the services already provided” - I think it would be hard to argue that all the value is at the initial period of the ticket and there is no value in the latter months of the ticket.

And don’t forget, the CMA is saying that it doesn’t matter what the contract says if it is not fair then those terms are invalid.

 

[island]

Not relevant. An annual season ticket is not “regular services in return for a regular payment as part of an ongoing contract”. Season tickets have a single upfront payment.

 

[sefton]

Not relevant. An annual season ticket is not “regular services in return for a regular payment as part of an ongoing contract”. Season tickets have a single upfront payment.

Entirely relevant - a regular service (or it is if they have enough drivers!) is provided every day, twice a day, to commute back and forth to work.

The train company has not provide ‘the service’ when you step on the train on day 1. They are providing a service all the way through to day 365.

Even if your view prevailed, then the CMA have covered that as well -

Limited exceptions to full refunds
Sometimes, a consumer will already have received some of the services they have paid for in advance. In those cases, the CMA considers that the consumer would normally be entitled to at least a refund for the services that are not provided. However, where they have already received something of value, consumers should generally be expected to pay for it and they will not usually be entitled to get all their money back.

In some cases, where Government public health measures prevent a business from providing a service or the consumer from receiving it, the business may be able to deduct a contribution to the costs it has already incurred in relation to the specific contract in question (where it cannot recover them elsewhere). In the CMA’s view, these cases are likely to be relatively rare, however, and the costs that may be deducted from refunds will usually be limited.

So again, if someone is towards the end of their season ticket but cannot use it because of the ‘lockdown’ legislation, then they should entitled to a refund for that part (and again it is irrelevant that the railway company argument that the contract says the last few months are free, if that is not fair to the consumer).

 

[miami]

My reading of that would be a football season ticket holder would get say 25 games over the year for £1000, or £40 a game. If the holder had the opportunity to see 15 of the games, but the club haven't provided the ability for the holder to see the remaining 10, it would be fair to get a £400 refund.

However in the case of the railway, most services are still running. There may be issues with the new timetable (say there's normally a 7am train that you catch, but now the first train is at 10am) which could be considered on a case by case basis, but for most lines I believe the trains are still running. I wouldn't think minor changes to timetables and frequencies (say dropping to 2tph from 4tph) would be enough to void the contract.

The government hasn't prevented the railway from providing the service, nor has the railway (on the whole) stopped providing the service.

In some cases the government has stopped you from using the service, but then you wouldn't get better-than-normal conditions from the railway if you were laid off from work, or if you were called for jury service, or you were sent to prison.