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Long term social distancing: Impact on public life & public transport?

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Mag_seven

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The more people we want to get back out working / socialising again the less possible social distancing will become - they are in inverse proportion to one another and inextricably linked. You can't hold social distancing measures in place and relax lockdown at the same time.
 
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Mogster

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We need to return to the pre lockdown conditions as soon as possible. Pubs closed, schools open, distancing encouraged where possible.

Distancing just isn’t practical in many circumstances. Many businesses won’t be viable with 25% of punters.
 

nedchester

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We need to return to the pre lockdown conditions as soon as possible. Pubs closed, schools open, distancing encouraged where possible.

Distancing just isn’t practical in many circumstances. Many businesses won’t be viable with 25% of punters.

It's the elephant in the room for many I am sure. I agree people should be allowed to distance where they can. At the same time effective test and trace systems in place with the vulnerable recommended to isolate (this is where money an investment needs to go in the medium/long term.
 

Bletchleyite

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It's the elephant in the room for many I am sure. I agree people should be allowed to distance where they can. At the same time effective test and trace systems in place with the vulnerable recommended to isolate (this is where money an investment needs to go in the medium/long term.

Here's a question - why don't Google and Apple, instead of providing an API, just include the whole thing in their OSs? That is, allow anyone to say "I've had symptoms" and those who had been in contact (possibly to a user configurable distance/time) just get notified? That would roll it out worldwide in one go, and I think most people would happily have it turned on.
 

nedchester

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Here's a question - why don't Google and Apple, instead of providing an API, just include the whole thing in their OSs? That is, allow anyone to say "I've had symptoms" and those who had been in contact (possibly to a user configurable distance/time) just get notified? That would roll it out worldwide in one go, and I think most people would happily have it turned on.

I see the app as an add on to manual T&T rather than the other way round. But yes I think a Global solution is the answer but there again you have to deal with various governments arguing over liberties etc
 

Killingworth

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I've just seen a small bus with 3 passengers, all over 60s, sitting one behind the other in the front 3 left hand rows. That's a fairly normal load at present.

Curiously this is an outer suburbs link route. The normal load before COVID would be 3 or 4 pensioners. It's the only local bus route I see being used at present, double deckers on routes to the city centre aren't carrying more than an occasional 1 or 2 out here in the suburbs. Trains continue to be deserted.

Bletchleyite "Most trains have seat numbers, that's all that is needed, and it's hardly difficult to add them if needed. If they are compulsory there is no need to place them."

Fair enough on TPE services over longer distances. With Northern's random unit generator and short hops of sometimes as little as 2 or 3 miles the best you'd probably be able to manage would be a carriage number, and it would be impossible to enforce.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Fair enough on TPE services over longer distances. With Northern's random unit generator and short hops of sometimes as little as 2 or 3 miles the best you'd probably be able to manage would be a carriage number, and it would be impossible to enforce.

Perhaps it'd be an opportunity for Northern to learn to diagram properly? LNR too.
 

Skymonster

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So how do you enforce reservations? At plenty of stations there are no barriers so people can walk onto the platforms and trains at will. At those with automated barriers there does not seem to be an automated process to restrict access (i.e. prevent the barriers from opening) if a reservation is not presented. So people will be able to hop onto trains with or without reservations. With most railway staff instructed not to closely interact with the public with respect to on-train ticket checks, what's to stop someone just jumping on a train with or without a reservation? And if someone is on a train with a valid ticket but without a reservation, what action will be taken - kick them off at the next stop? a fine? really? (shakes head in despair).
 

CaptainHaddock

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I do - as I keep saying, compulsory reservations! You then know which coach and seat you should be in to properly balance the loadings.

It is a complete no-brainer to me and a number of countries have already done it, as well as a couple of UK TOCs doing counted places.

Here's an even better idea - optional reservations! If you really, absolutely have to be on a certain train you would have the option of reserving, which would guarantee you a place on that train. If however you'd rather be flexible you could buy an open ticket and would then be able to choose which train to travel on on a "turn up and go" basis, subject to space being available.
 

underbank

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It's the elephant in the room for many I am sure. I agree people should be allowed to distance where they can. At the same time effective test and trace systems in place with the vulnerable recommended to isolate (this is where money an investment needs to go in the medium/long term.

But at the same time, people who don't want to social distance need to respect those who do. Obviously someone who want to SD needs to avoid crowded places like pubs etc for the longer term, but they need to be protected in "normal" places like a workplace, shopping centre, etc from others encroaching into their personal space. There's millions of "middle ground" people who don't need to shield but may be vulnerable due to less serious health issues. Say, a middle aged bloke with diabetes - fair enough if he wants to go to pubs as that's his choice, but if he wants to social distance, he should be allowed to do so. All the younger, less at risk people, can go around taking risks for themselves, but they still need to respect social distancing for everyone else they come into contact with away from crowded pubs etc.
 

Skymonster

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But at the same time, people who don't want to social distance need to respect those who do.
As social distancing rules are relaxed going forward (which seems likely), anyone who wishes to maintain the current 2m will have to find ways to do so for themselves without inconveniencing those who are happy to conform to any revised guidance. We simply cannot get into a situation where the will of some individuals is allowed to usurp national policy.
 

111-111-1

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Here's an even better idea - optional reservations! If you really, absolutely have to be on a certain train you would have the option of reserving, which would guarantee you a place on that train. If however you'd rather be flexible you could buy an open ticket and would then be able to choose which train to travel on on a "turn up and go" basis, subject to space being available.

Effectively what TV show at Liverpool Street. If staff think train too busy you wait for next. What happens for last train or next station it did not say.
 

111-111-1

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Most trains have seat numbers, that's all that is needed, and it's hardly difficult to add them if needed. If they are compulsory there is no need to place them.
That is the simple bit.
Now please tell the forum how YOU popose to enforce them. In Europe it is by big cost on train when no booking been made even with empty seat. How do YOU intend to do it here?
 

stevetay3

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I don’t think all of this will last long, how do you get to work when the bus turns up and has it’s permitted quota on board and you are refused boarding. Wait for the next one in one hour, which may be full as well. Hours late for work you won’t know how it will be going home also. As for compulsory reservations on public transport, how do you control this at stations such as Reading . Totally unworkable on buses also I would think.
 

Enthusiast

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As for compulsory reservations on public transport, how do you control this at stations such as Reading . Totally unworkable on buses also I would think.
Of course it is. Look at a place like London Bridge. Vast numbers of people change trains there. Even 25% of normal traffic is a huge amount. Every person changing trains will have to have a reservation on the service by which they arrive and the one on which they depart. If you've ever stood on London Bridge station barely an hour (usually much less) goes by without some services being disrupted and running late. So what do people do who arrive from Sussex, want to change onto Thameslink (for which they have a reservation) and their incoming service is late? They miss their connection. What do they do then (they have no reservations to go anywhere else until they go home at 5pm)? Leave the station and get a taxi back to Hastings? It's fine on inter-city services that run once and hour and stop every 50 miles. It's totally impossible on commuter services. Like I said, you either run public transport or you don't.
 

stevetay3

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Not very workable on IC as well, someone travels into a main hub on a local service can then get on any other train in the station at will, so do we put barriers on every platform, security on every IC train to reject unreserved passengers back onto the platform. Then we have a large crowd on the platform to keep social distancing.
 

Bletchleyite

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Not very workable on IC as well, someone travels into a main hub on a local service can then get on any other train in the station at will, so do we put barriers on every platform, security on every IC train to reject unreserved passengers back onto the platform. Then we have a large crowd on the platform to keep social distancing.

Why does everyone think this requires strict enforcement? Most of the coronavirus restrictions on individuals have been barely enforced at all, at least outside London.
 

Huntergreed

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Agreed, there is no other option given the state of the economy.
Couldn’t agree more, however it looks, if we go by the Scottish Government document released yesterday, that this isn’t the approach that’s being taken up here sadly.
 

Andy Pacer

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Because most people will comply, particularly in these circumstances, and it only takes most people to comply to keep things in hand.
It will definitely come down to the good nature of people to keep up the social distancing, will be interesting in future weeks to see people's compliance when places and transport get busier.
 

stevetay3

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People who are perfectly entitled to go to those areas in England, you mean?
Thay are entitled to visit these places, I am not saying thay are not, I am just trying to point out the problem with this issue. People are being turned away in some places by various jobsworths with there own rules , according to media, unofficial barriers have been put up also in lakeland.This whole issue needs to be made clear as to what is advice and what is law
 

joncombe

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I just had an email from Arriva about their "Social Distrancing policy". Essentially this is leave a row in front and behind you free. If you are travelling with someone from the same household they can sit next to you - but then it later says that you should leave the aisle seat free.

However perhaps the most controversal is that it says that if "once the maximum advisory capacity is reached" the driver will put up a "bus full" sign and the bus will NOT stop anywhere other than to allow passengers on board to alight and will then only allow the same number of people that alighted to board.

I can see that latter step in particular causing issues where the bus reaches the "advisory capacity" after the first couple of stops and anyone else further along the route is left stranded. I also hope common sense will be applied to (say) the last bus of the day.
 

Bletchleyite

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Thay are entitled to visit these places, I am not saying thay are not, I am just trying to point out the problem with this issue. People are being turned away in some places by various jobsworths with there own rules , according to media, unofficial barriers have been put up also in lakeland.This whole issue needs to be made clear as to what is advice and what is law

Law and advice from central Government are very clearly that you can go where you like within England for a day trip only, in a private car (or bicycle or on foot) containing only members of your household, provided you yourself judge that you can maintain social distancing properly, and obviously not break any other laws like parking.

Some anti-tourist "yokels" and Councils are not a fan of this, either because they think their area is only for them (it's not; this deserves filing alongside people who think they have any legal or moral entitlement to park outside their house if they do not have off-road parking) or because they have irrational fears about how the virus might spread, but they need to wind their necks in as it is not within their power to stop it. And Police need to come down hard on any vigilanteism, there are plenty of laws they can use, e.g. against things like offensive "eff off" signage. But also against obstructive parking and any large groups they believe to be a breach of COVID rules.
 

Bletchleyite

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I just had an email from Arriva about their "Social Distrancing policy". Essentially this is leave a row in front and behind you free. If you are travelling with someone from the same household they can sit next to you - but then it later says that you should leave the aisle seat free.

However perhaps the most controversal is that it says that if "once the maximum advisory capacity is reached" the driver will put up a "bus full" sign and the bus will NOT stop anywhere other than to allow passengers on board to alight and will then only allow the same number of people that alighted to board.

I can see that latter step in particular causing issues where the bus reaches the "advisory capacity" after the first couple of stops and anyone else further along the route is left stranded. I also hope common sense will be applied to (say) the last bus of the day.

There is an answer to this that will give people at any stop equal chance of getting on a given bus service.

However, for some reason people don't like it, because they'd prefer to be stood at a stop as buses sail past than to make a quick telephone call or use of a website before their journey.
 

Qwerty133

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There is an answer to this that will give people at any stop equal chance of getting on a given bus service.

However, for some reason people don't like it, because they'd prefer to be stood at a stop as buses sail past than to make a quick telephone call or use of a website before their journey.
The idea that people at every stop should have an equal chance is nonsense. I believe that many bus companies will have to look at introducing pick up only restrictions for the first few miles of routes coming out of town in order that those who need to travel the whole length of the route will be prioritised over those who are either within comfortable walking distance or who could take a different bus that only goes half way and is therefore quieter.
 
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