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Named Trains 2020

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Condor7

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STOP PRESS.....Since posting this thread I have resolved the issues and have posted further down the up to date list of all UK named trains as of the May 2020 timetable. If I have missed anything observations are welcome....STOP PRESS


A few years ago I posted an up to date list of the present day named, or some call them titled trains, running in the UK and with the help from one or two on here I was able to tweak it for accuracy.

i decided it would be a good idea to update it but could do with some more help. From my previous list there are two named trains that appear to have gone missing. I use the Network Rail national timetable but cannot find these two for love or money, but I do know some times local printed timetables can include them, or more commonly exclude them.

The two concerned are The Robin Hood, London St.Pancras to Nottingham previously on table 53, East Midlands Rail
The other is The Merchant Venturer London Paddington to Penzance (Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington on the return journey) previously table 126 GWR.

Any help would be much appreciated.
 
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43055

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In the EMR timetable before may the Robin Hood was still named both ways. 1634 from London and 0800 from Nottingham.
 

Condor7

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The Caledonian sleeper is a brand not an actual named train. I believe it was once a named train known as The Night Caledonian but that was dropped in 1996.
 

43055

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Don't the Caledonian Sleepers have names?
The Caledonian sleeper is a brand not an actual named train. I believe it was once a named train known as The Night Caledonian but that was dropped in 1996.
I think the Caledonian Sleeper still uses the names for the two services out of London. The Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William service is called the Highlander wile the Glasgow and Edinburgh service is the Lowlander.
 

hexagon789

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I think the Caledonian Sleeper still uses the names for the two services out of London. The Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William service is called the Highlander wile the Glasgow and Edinburgh service is the Lowlander.

Each portion used to have its own name iirc
 

Mag_seven

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The Caledonian sleeper is a brand not an actual named train. I believe it was once a named train known as The Night Caledonian but that was dropped in 1996.

The sleepers from London to Scotland have all carried formal names at various times over the years such as "The Night Limited", "The Royal Highlander" etc.
 

Condor7

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I think the Caledonian Sleeper still uses the names for the two services out of London. The Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William service is called the Highlander wile the Glasgow and Edinburgh service is the Lowlander.

While this does not help with my original question, you raise an interesting point and highlights some of the anomaly’s when discussing named trains. Certain trains are given unofficial name such as the two you mention, the Highland also referred to as The Deerstalker, but they have never been officially recognised which is a shame. It is something similar to the Daventry to Mossend container trains being referred to as The Tesco Express, a term most use, but has never been officially recognised.

A similar anomaly and a twist on what I have just said is The One Wales Express Holyhead to Cardiff otherwise known as The Gerard named after the traveller and Archdeacon of Brecon in 2008. This is an official named train but never appears as such in any timetables (unless you know different).
 

Condor7

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This is the updated list from May 2020
 

Attachments

  • Named Trains 2020.pdf
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Envoy

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Do any of these names appear on screens at stations & on the trains? Are announcements made at stations and on trains where the name is mentioned?
 

mailbyrail

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What's truly surprising is that given all the changes of ownership, regionalisation, privatization, rebranding etc, almost all of the names are at least 50 years old.
Only the Northern Lights and the Weymouth Wizard would confuse the traditional Bradshaw's compiler in the middle of the last century - not to mention 'Gerald' who seems to confuse everybody as to whether he exists or not.
 

StephenHunter

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We've also got names that appear in marketing but don't in the timetables - like Highlander and Lowlander.
 

43055

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Do any of these names appear on screens at stations & on the trains? Are announcements made at stations and on trains where the name is mentioned?
I know GWR announced and displayed the names. I think it is along the lines of: Platform 1 for the (name) the (time) to xxx calling at....

A couple of times I have seen EMT display the names on the station screens.
 

DarloRich

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IMO named trains these days serve no purpose. There is nothing special about the "Robin Hood" compared with the 1142 from Nottingham. There is no cachet. It is just silly nostalgia which i really cant stand. They don't even get used as a form of marketing!

I would say that only the LNER ones have any standing and only then really only the Flying Scotsman in public consciousness.
 

Condor7

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DarloRich...While I don’t entirely agree with you, you make a good point. Unlike you I like the nostalgia element which is part of the reason this subject interests me. Where I do agree with you is I don’t want it to be nostalgia for the sake of being nostalgic. Named trains in my opinion need to have a reason, something that makes them stand out from others on the route. This would normally mean a much faster time usually provided by having limited stops. Alternatively it may provide a higher level of service as in the days of Pullman, or ideally a combination of both.

Personally I would prefer it if they had fewer named trains but where those retained stood out as offering something special, then the TOC’s need to up their game and highlight that unique service, in the timetables, on the destination boards and announcements, but most of all on the train itself, surely in this day and age peel on and peel off headboards should be possible.

The airline market has shown that charging a premium rate for a premium service works, and I think the railways should do the same.
 
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Envoy

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What's truly surprising is that given all the changes of ownership, regionalisation, privatization, rebranding etc, almost all of the names are at least 50 years old.
Only the Northern Lights and the Weymouth Wizard would confuse the traditional Bradshaw's compiler in the middle of the last century - not to mention 'Gerald' who seems to confuse everybody as to whether he exists or not.

Gerald of Wales was born in Manorbier Castle, Pembrokeshire around 1146. What further confused things was the Welsh version - Gerallt was applied to the train.
 

Envoy

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I know GWR announced and displayed the names. I think it is along the lines of: Platform 1 for the (name) the (time) to xxx calling at....

A couple of times I have seen EMT display the names on the station screens.

I have never seen the GWR named trains mentioned in announcements or on station displays in Wales - despite having ‘The Capitals United’ ; The Red Dragon ; The St. David; The Welshman and The Pembroke Coast Express. A couple of years ago, I travelled on The Red Dragon (the only weekday Inter City services from Carmarthen to London & back). No mention in announcements or any signage anywhere - on platform or on train. Back in the day, the restaurant cars on these named trains would have menus printed emblazoned with the name of the train. Are we missing a marketing trick here?
 

43055

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I have never seen the GWR named trains mentioned in announcements or on station displays in Wales - despite having ‘The Capitals United’ ; The Red Dragon ; The St. David; The Welshman and The Pembroke Coast Express. A couple of years ago, I travelled on The Red Dragon (the only weekday Inter City services from Carmarthen to London & back). No mention in announcements or any signage anywhere - on platform or on train. Back in the day, the restaurant cars on these named trains would have menus printed emblazoned with the name of the train. Are we missing a marketing trick here?
For the announcements and CIS displays could be this be due to the stations being operated by TfW? Whilst not the same the services that are HST operated by Cross County are announced as a 'Cross Country High Speed Train service' at EMR stations but nowhere else and have Cross Country HST on the screens. I think GWR already brand the menus and plates with a Pullman dining logo?

A few examples from FGW days with announcements with named trains in from around 05:30 onwards from this video that I found on YouTube.
 

DarloRich

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DarloRich...While I don’t entirely agree with you, you make a good point. Unlike you I like the nostalgia element which is part of the reason this subject interests me. Where I do agree with you is I don’t want it to be nostalgia for the sake of being nostalgic. Named trains in my opinion need to have a reason, something that makes them stand out from others on the route. This would normally mean a much faster time usually provided by having limited stops. Alternatively it may provide a higher level of service as in the days of Pullman, or ideally a combination of both.

Personally I would prefer it if they had fewer named trains but where those retained stood out as offering something special, then the TOC’s need to up their game and highlight that unique service, in the timetables, on the destination boards and announcements, but most of all on the train itself, surely in this day and age peel on and peel off headboards should be possible.

The airline market has shown that charging a premium rate for a premium service works, and I think the railways should do the same.


I think if we are going to have a named train it must serve a purpose even if just PR. It must have a reason why that train is more important or better than the others. The problem today is that they aren't and i don't think they can be because of the intense nature of many timetables and how modern trains are laid out and staffed. At the very least if there is an express train from A to B put the name on that one rather than the slower train from A to B stopping at C to F!

As for headboards I don't think they serve any purpose for normal passengers. Much better to spend the money on PR that will have impact with passengers.
 

StephenHunter

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Headboards, no. You can still stick names on destination displays by the doors. The Eurostar services could do with some names.
 

Sad Sprinter

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IMO named trains these days serve no purpose. There is nothing special about the "Robin Hood" compared with the 1142 from Nottingham. There is no cachet. It is just silly nostalgia which i really cant stand. They don't even get used as a form of marketing!

I would say that only the LNER ones have any standing and only then really only the Flying Scotsman in public consciousness.

Whilst I disagree with your views of nostalgia-something which I have an unlimited amount of time for on the railways, you are completely right about the pointlessness of named trains in 2020. In a standard inter-city multiple unit, there is very little room to rearrange or present the train in any way thats different to a normal service. Catering options, probably one of the most important aspects of a named train, are extremely limited on a class 222 or a IEP. With standard loco-hauled stock, named trains make more sense.

I don't mind named trains, but at least make them somewhat differenent inside. A tablecloth on tables perhaps-that's probably all you can do. Especially when the, often garish TOC livery on the outside of the inevitable multiple unit, will always distract the eye from the pomp of the named train itself.
 

Condor7

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As for headboards I don't think they serve any purpose for normal passengers. Much better to spend the money on PR that will have impact with passengers.

On the contrary I think they would make impact with passengers. it would be visible as their train approaches, it would reinforce that they are traveling on something special (on the basis the toc’s actually make them special as already discussed). I had relatives that booked The West Riding Ltd last year and their overriding disappointment was the lack of anything that identified the train as being different.

If the train is a premium service it also acts as advert to other passengers who watch it pull in or even see it rush pass while waiting at other stations, I think it would be great PR.
 

Envoy

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I note that GWR now have limited to stop expresses that run non stop from Bristol Parkway to Paddington. Perhaps one of these could be ‘The Bristolian’ whilst the fastest service between Cardiff & London could ‘The Capitals United’. The only service that runs between Carmarthen & London should be ‘The Red Dragon’. The fastest service between London & Swansea could be ‘The St. David’. Same thing should happen for trains between London & Devon/ Cornwall and on the Cotswold lines. Hopefully, these could also be the trains with some sort of dining to match the time of the day?

So, by naming these super fast services, in sets them apart from the slower stoppers.
 

WesternLancer

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Do any of these names appear on screens at stations & on the trains? Are announcements made at stations and on trains where the name is mentioned?
I think EMR (and EMT before it) do use the names on on board announcements but it seems to be down to staff on board - ie it is not systematic. Little is made in publicity beyond timetable column indicator and footnote.

One would think that if you made the train concerned 'a bit special' you would build up demand for that train in particular, thus need to sell less reduced price tickets to fill the seats, which would pay for the extra service level on board that might make it a 'bit special' - ie a virtuous revenue cycle.

When I used one of the final GW dining HST125 trains, which was I think named I noticed that the cheapest advance 1st fares, available on trains running before and after it, were not seemingly available on that train, perhaps an example of the above.
 

cle

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I note that GWR now have limited to stop expresses that run non stop from Bristol Parkway to Paddington. Perhaps one of these could be ‘The Bristolian’ whilst the fastest service between Cardiff & London could ‘The Capitals United’. The only service that runs between Carmarthen & London should be ‘The Red Dragon’. The fastest service between London & Swansea could be ‘The St. David’. Same thing should happen for trains between London & Devon/ Cornwall and on the Cotswold lines. Hopefully, these could also be the trains with some sort of dining to match the time of the day?

So, by naming these super fast services, in sets them apart from the slower stoppers.
The issue these days (good problem to have) is that these fast services are pretty much clock-face and standard rather than once/twice daily - so there isn't really a stand-out. The next variable would probably be - which is the fast service into London for a 830am arrival, and similar out in the early evening. But quickest journeys are usually off peak or super early! :)

Virgin had their set of super fast morning (into Euston) services, but gradually pathing meant adding in a stop or two, or a few mins padding, and eventually there wasn't much difference between the regular services.
 

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<snip>
Virgin had their set of super fast morning (into Euston) services, but gradually pathing meant adding in a stop or two, or a few mins padding, and eventually there wasn't much difference between the regular services.
Not so. Just take a look at the May 2020 timetables; the morning fast services from Manchester, Liverpool, and Birmingham New Street all look pretty much the same as they did when the timetable was first written. The only superfast train to gain stops and padding is the 1630 Euston - Glasgow.
 

cle

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Ahh yes of course. My thinking was that these were never named as the journey times were so close to the normal one, I didn't make that clear!
 
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