This is part of a long term £2.7 billion plan but where is is it to be constructed and what will happen to the East Midlands Parkway station?
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New East Midlands Airport Station
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59CosG95
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Based on this, it looks like they'll create a new alignment from the disused Melbourne line from between (approx.) Wilson & Tonge, striking eastward south of Donington Park Circuit (also Download Festival), with a new station south of the airport & A453. Then, it seems to cross the A42/M1 junction (J23A), with a new delta junction west of Sutton Bonington & SE of Kegworth.Here's a diagram from a local newspaper that I've not seen in other reports which clarifies the plans:
Based on this, it looks like they'll create a new alignment with a new delta junction SE of Kegworth & west Sutton Bonington in 'Phase 2'. Crossing the M1/A42 jct (23A), the new station would probably be south of the airport & A453 (with the light rail to come later). Then, in 'Phase 3', the NET will join the party (although getting quite far from Nottingham at this point!), directly linking the mainline station to the terminals. The heavy rail line would strike westward, avoiding Donington Park (also all the various Download Festival campsites) to rejoin the disused Melbourne Line between Wilson & Tonge (approx.)
I can't see the old alignment of the Melbourne Line being followed verbatim after it leaves the Castle Donington Line again, as the roundabout for J3 of the A50 (Derby Southern bypass) just so happens to be in the way...
it'll probably head to the west of Chellaston (and J3 of the A50) over the old canal route, nearer to Swarkestone Lock.
(It also seems crazy to me that an NET stop at Kegworth hasn't been considered)
This is of course speculation based on the above map!
The full article from Nottingham Post is available here: https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/revealed-new-map-east-midlands-4168333 (I assume the same article alluded to above)
Couple of bits:
It would be fantastic to see at least some of this map come to fruition. The NET is great although it's an estimated £375 million to extend it from the yet to be built Toton hub to Derby.
East Midlands Parwkay is poorly located. I haven't heard that it's designed to take cars off the road into Notts and Derby, surely if you wanted to take cars off the road into Notts and you were driving in the South way, you would make use of Toton or Clifton P&R? Can't speak for Derby, not very familiar with the area.
Couple of bits:
It would be fantastic to see at least some of this map come to fruition. The NET is great although it's an estimated £375 million to extend it from the yet to be built Toton hub to Derby.
East Midlands Parwkay is poorly located. I haven't heard that it's designed to take cars off the road into Notts and Derby, surely if you wanted to take cars off the road into Notts and you were driving in the South way, you would make use of Toton or Clifton P&R? Can't speak for Derby, not very familiar with the area.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Trains to Nottingham and Derby are far too infrequent for it to be a park and ride for those journeys - at that distance P&R probably needs a train/tram/bus every 15min or so. Its main purpose was to provide an alternative starting point for long distance journeys, particularly London. Toton will do that much better for most people. I expect it will end up as a station for local trains only - it does have some purpose as it's right next to the coal-fired power station at Ratcliffe, site which is identified as an opportunity site for re-development.
The former Derby-Melbourne Ashby branch is a popular sustrans traffic free cycle route / walking route.
At one end it meets the road by a railway bridge on the road to Weston on trent, ( https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...3d52.8512778!4d-1.4280685?hl=en-GB&authuser=0 )
At the other end it finishes by a quarry at Worthington https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...3d52.7851375!4d-1.3973567?hl=en-GB&authuser=0
The heading away from the ex railway section is follows the former Derby Canal, which is due to be restored .
Any threat to this community asset will not be welcomed.
At one end it meets the road by a railway bridge on the road to Weston on trent, ( https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...3d52.8512778!4d-1.4280685?hl=en-GB&authuser=0 )
At the other end it finishes by a quarry at Worthington https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...3d52.7851375!4d-1.3973567?hl=en-GB&authuser=0
The heading away from the ex railway section is follows the former Derby Canal, which is due to be restored .
Any threat to this community asset will not be welcomed.
Wouldn't it be more cost effective to have a dedicated frequent bus service direct between EMA and East Midlands Parkway instead? Maybe have a dedicated bus lane if possible. Its only a couple of miles between the two, and the airport is mainly used by locals anyway. How many trains per hour would stop at EMA if a spur off the mainline was built? Any junction to the MML would connect to the fast lines presumably. Would the London to Notts / Sheffield punters want an extra 10 mins added to their journey heading down the branch to the airport.
EDIT : Or just extend the Nottingham tram as per the diagram above. Didn't notice that
EDIT : Or just extend the Nottingham tram as per the diagram above. Didn't notice that
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If East Midlands Airport station does open, how close to the terminal building will it be? What are typical passenger numbers (viability of having a dedicated airport station?
If the above answers are good, perhaps East Midlands Parkway serves no purpose at all - and services could stop calling there until the immediate site is redeveloped. Housing should be built, ideally.
If the above answers are good, perhaps East Midlands Parkway serves no purpose at all - and services could stop calling there until the immediate site is redeveloped. Housing should be built, ideally.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
There are already frequent buses to EMA from Derby, Nottingham, Long Eaton and a few minutes walk from Beeston, all of which will probably have more train than the Parkway.
I agree it looks hard to justify both heavy and light rail on parallel routes, especially as the map suggests that train passengers will have to use the tram from the airport station to get to the actual airport. They were also talking about the continuation of the route round to Derby being a tram-train so maybe just have a route designed for 60mph trams (same would be possible for Derby to Toton).
I imagine a tram station could be quite close with appropriate rearrangement of parking and access roads, but as noted above the distance between the railway station and the terminal looks to be long enough to be a tram journey. I can't see the train getting north of the A453.
Parkway sort of serves Kegworth and Sutton Bonington (including a university campus) but neither are within easy walking distance. A station for local services midway between the two could be a useful addition to the plan.
NotATrainspott
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NR seems to have an idea to reconfigure the Castle Donington line to simplify Trent Junction. See the East Midlands Route Study, Option 8.
I expect that's where this idea is coming from. Given that the map suggests the passenger terminal will be on the NET and not the heavy rail line, it seems quite plausible. Build a new station in the vicinity of EMA and then rely on the tram to provide the final connection. So long as there's integrated ticketing it's not fundamentally that different to a people mover shuttle to the terminal like at Luton or Gatwick.
I expect that's where this idea is coming from. Given that the map suggests the passenger terminal will be on the NET and not the heavy rail line, it seems quite plausible. Build a new station in the vicinity of EMA and then rely on the tram to provide the final connection. So long as there's integrated ticketing it's not fundamentally that different to a people mover shuttle to the terminal like at Luton or Gatwick.
To be honest, it's more crackpot, pie in the sky rubbish from people who havn't got a clue what they're taking about.
Politicians fishing for votes, business leaders looking for profits, other non-entities wanting their name in the news, local papers always willing to soak up any garbage to fill their pages.
EMA is a regional airport which primarily used for freight. Here we go again with another (pathetic) attempt to turn it into the Heathrow of the north!
Politicians fishing for votes, business leaders looking for profits, other non-entities wanting their name in the news, local papers always willing to soak up any garbage to fill their pages.
EMA is a regional airport which primarily used for freight. Here we go again with another (pathetic) attempt to turn it into the Heathrow of the north!
Nym
Established Member
The only sensible way I can see anything akin to this working would be;
Extend the southern branch of NET to East Mids Parkway, then onwards to East Mids Airport.
If there was to be a line into Derby from there, it would likely be isolated in terms of running order from the main network anyway, so if one was to build this as a tramway, it would take a lot of pressure of the design of the perminant way, and actually be able to serve population centres between, and events destinations such as Donnington Park.
From there one could run via Melbourne, Chellaston (West) through Shelton Lock and continue as a segregated tramway through Osmanston onto London Road (yes, it's plenty wide enough) to then land at the Railway Station and continue into Derby City Centre. Poking out the other end out towards the new developments to the east of Alestree via Morrisons.
As much as I'd like to see the line through Sinfin and Chellaston working again and it would join up the Chellaston Loop nicely and have some decent orbital journey opportunities via the airport or an alternative route to London/Nottingham. The only way I can see it working proper and having demand would be to intergtate it with a Derby South Parkway. Either on Swarkstone Road, just off Infinity Park Way with added dual carriageway and some bus route diversions / additions or a lot of services running via the airport and parkway.
I doubt it will happen though.
Extend the southern branch of NET to East Mids Parkway, then onwards to East Mids Airport.
If there was to be a line into Derby from there, it would likely be isolated in terms of running order from the main network anyway, so if one was to build this as a tramway, it would take a lot of pressure of the design of the perminant way, and actually be able to serve population centres between, and events destinations such as Donnington Park.
From there one could run via Melbourne, Chellaston (West) through Shelton Lock and continue as a segregated tramway through Osmanston onto London Road (yes, it's plenty wide enough) to then land at the Railway Station and continue into Derby City Centre. Poking out the other end out towards the new developments to the east of Alestree via Morrisons.
As much as I'd like to see the line through Sinfin and Chellaston working again and it would join up the Chellaston Loop nicely and have some decent orbital journey opportunities via the airport or an alternative route to London/Nottingham. The only way I can see it working proper and having demand would be to intergtate it with a Derby South Parkway. Either on Swarkstone Road, just off Infinity Park Way with added dual carriageway and some bus route diversions / additions or a lot of services running via the airport and parkway.
I doubt it will happen though.
thenorthern
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Given it's the East Midlands nothing will happen as the Government hates the East Midlands.
Reopening the line from Sinfin to Chellaston and then onto East Midlands Airport was mentioned at the time the Sinfin Branch was formally closed in 1998. I think it was seen as an alternative to closing the line but in the end the line still closed.
I don't think as East Midlands Airport station would be viable to be honest as the East Midlands is a very car dependent region for starters. Also it would require massive changes to the way that trains work in the East Midlands as East Midlands Airport has a lot of early morning/late evening flights with only a few during the daytime. Trains in the East Midlands start relatively late and finish relatively early compared to most regions meaning flight connections would be difficult given the guidance of arriving at the airport two hours before the flight is due to depart.
Reopening the line from Sinfin to Chellaston and then onto East Midlands Airport was mentioned at the time the Sinfin Branch was formally closed in 1998. I think it was seen as an alternative to closing the line but in the end the line still closed.
I don't think as East Midlands Airport station would be viable to be honest as the East Midlands is a very car dependent region for starters. Also it would require massive changes to the way that trains work in the East Midlands as East Midlands Airport has a lot of early morning/late evening flights with only a few during the daytime. Trains in the East Midlands start relatively late and finish relatively early compared to most regions meaning flight connections would be difficult given the guidance of arriving at the airport two hours before the flight is due to depart.
Jozhua
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I understand your concerns, however there is a need to provide better public transport in the region and take cars off the road. Hopefully a new route can be found for walkers/cyclists that is suitable, or even a decent amount of room to the side of the line (trains will only pass every so often, certainly not the deluge of traffic/noise you get from roads.)
Airport stations are generally utilised very well. I know Manchester's is (was) used by a lot of people when I took trips. Tbh as well, from my experience at various airports, as long as a good shuttle bus service is provided (lot of parking requires you to do this anyway), I don't see too much of an issue.
It is true the government hates the Midlands, along with a lot of places outside London lol. The East Midlands is quite a car dependent region, I have to agree, although the small amount of public transport funding spent seems to be spent well. I know even the most ardant drivers who are impressed by NET, as well as the local bus network. It would be nice to see better development around stations, especially in Derby and even Nottingham to a certain extent. Although tbh not much compares with the skyscraper madness of Mancunia!
I think train patterns will change with this new infrastructure, especially with the arrival of HS2.
Scotty
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East Midlands Parkway wasn't built to serve the airport, it was to allow passengers to drive to it and travel south, rather than having to drive into Nottingham or Derby.
Jorge Da Silva
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Toton will be much better as a parkway station and could be very busy. East Midlands Parkway has not been as successful as first hoped.
Glenn1969
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This plan assumes the Toton hub will be built. Will it or will Phase 2B be scrapped?
Jorge Da Silva
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Phase 2b was given the Green light but could be ammended and integrated with other projects like NPR and Midlands Rail Hub
Glenn1969
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Except that it hasn't. It hasn't even started the parliamentary process yet. I think it will be scrapped in favour of NPR and the post Covid world may make that more likely
Jorge Da Silva
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NPR uses HS2 phase 2b? It is likely it will be broken up into separate bills to speed things up
Glenn1969
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I think they will build NPR and serve Leeds via Manchester and scrap phase 2B to save money. Midlands Connect may still happen but that is a West Midlands based project
Jorge Da Silva
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I disagree Phase 2b may be realigned to use some more existing sections of track but in principal it probably will happen. NPR is still in the planning stage
Glenn1969
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I think given the £300bn black hole in the finances it has less chance of being approved by Parliament but time will tell
swt_passenger
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I think that’s definitely because the OP highlighted just one aspect of a much more comprehensive report.
There seems to be a parallel discussion over in “speculation” based on the same report, but it started off titled about the Toton Hub:
thenorthern
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Problem with the railways as well in the East Midlands is the three East Midlands Cities (Nottingham, Leicester and Derby) tend to have one major station in the center of the city with a few small suburban halts dotted around the suburbs which are normally served hourly at best by semi-rural regional services.
This creates a problem in that most suburbs within the cities are not served by any rail services meaning one has to make a journey to the center of the city to then get a train to the airport. Even in the suburbs that are served by railways if someone wanted to go from South Wigston to East Midlands Airport for example they would have to catch the two hourly service from South Wigston to then connect with an hourly service from Leicester to an East Midlands Airport service.
InTheEastMids
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Coming back to a station at EMA, I think the real challenge to its business case is whether EMA will ever have enough passengers to make it worthwhile. It's around 5 million passengers a year whereas Manchester was nearer 30m.
Being on a branch, I'm not seeing where the non airport traffic would come from which I guess is a big part of demand at stations like Birmingham Intl or Luton Airport Parkway
Being on a branch, I'm not seeing where the non airport traffic would come from which I guess is a big part of demand at stations like Birmingham Intl or Luton Airport Parkway
thenorthern
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Other quieter airports have successful stations such as Southampton, London Southend and Cardiff also don't forget London City Airport on the DLR and Newcastle Airport on the Tyne and Wear Metro that is only just busier than East Midlands.
All these airport rail links however were built in very different circumstances to an East Midlands Airport rail link would be built as.
For example Southampton Airport Parkway has regular direct rail links to London, Birmingham and Manchester plus the rail network in Southampton is better than the East Midlands not to mention as well the station doubles up as a park and ride station for Southampton. Newcastle Airport Metro station is served regularly on what is quite a decent metro system for Tyne and Wear.
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