Caledonian Sleeper

[DBS92042]

Info I've seen this morning indicates:
15007 subbed in for 15001 at Polmadie yesterday and also 15301 was taken out of the Glasgow portion
15214 in place of 15202 in the Inverness portion

So consist (Load 15) should've been:

15007, 15110, 15212, 15339, 15337, 15338, (15301), 15204 + 15004, 15101, 15214, 15311, 15303, 15313, 15306, 15330

Also whilst on the topic, 15302 (final debutante on Mon night) was missing from the northbound 1S25 last night (ran as a Load 14). This means of the final three to come into service none are currently out and about in trains.

15301 - at Polmadie as above
15302 - at Wembley as above
15336 - at Wembley as part of the 'spare' set that was rotated out at the weekend, so in theory should reappear on the northbound service on Sun night.

Thank you for all that. Clearly I messed up counting the number of coaches in the consist!

 

[59CosG95]

@TimboM - do you know what the consist of Monday morning's 1M16 was?

 

[MotCO]

How easy is it to switch coaching stock around? I would have thought it to be a bit of a faff, and that trains would remain fairly constant, but what do I know?

 

[TimboM]

How easy is it to switch coaching stock around? I would have thought it to be a bit of a faff, and that trains would remain fairly constant, but what do I know?

If you mean taking coaches in/out of a specific 8-coach unit then it is a bit of a faff. Will involve all the various shunt manoeuvres (with a Dellner compatible loco) then reconfigure the TCMS to recognise the new formation etc etc.

The units are generally kept the same unless there's operational or repair/maintenance reasons to swap a specific coach out.

 

[Far north 37]

1S25 cancelled this morning between edinburgh and inverness.

 

[Tom]

@TimboM - do you know what the consist of Monday morning's 1M16 was?

The coaching stock was formed 15330 15306 15313 15303 15311 15214 15101 15004 15001 15110 15212 15339 15337 15338 15301 15204 for Sunday night/Monday morning (but maybe not in that order as 15204 was the leading vehicle out of Inverness).

 

[59CosG95]

The coaching stock was formed 15330 15306 15313 15303 15311 15214 15101 15004 15001 15110 15212 15339 15337 15338 15301 15204 for Sunday night/Monday morning (but maybe not in that order as 15204 was the leading vehicle out of Inverness).

Many thanks, @Tom.

 

[LeylandLen]

1S25 cancelled this morning between edinburgh and inverness.

Seems the whole train was cancelled from Euston as no timings. I know they had trouble with loco at Euston so had to swap 92s

Realtime Trains - 1S25 2117 London Euston to Inverness

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Kendalian]

Seems the whole train was cancelled from Euston as no timings. I know they had trouble with loco at Euston so had to swap 92s

Realtime Trains - 1S25 2117 London Euston to Inverness

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Not sure what was going on last night with 1S25 as RTT is showing the Glasgow portion as running from Edinburgh

Realtime Trains - 1D26 2117 London Euston to Glasgow Central

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

1M16 appears to have been cancelled as well between Edinburgh and Euston. Not a good night for CS, though doubt there will be many customers guests to be reimbursed

Realtime Trains - 1M16 2045 Inverness to London Euston

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[LeylandLen]

Not sure what was going on last night with 1S25 as RTT is showing the Glasgow portion as running from Edinburgh

Realtime Trains - 1D26 2117 London Euston to Glasgow Central

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

1M16 appears to have been cancelled as well between Edinburgh and Euston. Not a good night for CS, though doubt there will be many customers guests to be reimbursed

Realtime Trains - 1M16 2045 Inverness to London Euston

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Apparently 1M16 (Inverness to Euston ) was cancelled at Edinburgh as there would have been no driver at Preston as that driver takes 1m25 from Euston as far as Preston.

 

[TimboM]

Apparently 1M16 (Inverness to Euston ) was cancelled at Edinburgh as there would have been no driver at Preston as that driver takes 1m25 from Euston as far as Preston.

Pretty much everything in that theory is wrong!

 

[John Bishop]

Pretty much everything in that theory is wrong!

Come on then Tim, rather than posting a pointless post about someone being wrong which helps nobody, how about you let us know what actually happened!

 

[Andy Pacer]

Come on then Tim, rather than posting a pointless post about someone being wrong which helps nobody, how about you let us know what actually happened!

I'm glad someone else said what I was thinking!

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'm glad someone else said what I was thinking!

The cancellation of 1M16 (Inverness to Euston ) might have been something to do with balancing staff/stock moves. But maybe there were no passengers booked on the cancelled service so better to save it for another day ?.

Wembley already hosts a spare rake of 16 coaches during the current COVID-19 service. That seems to be swapped into service every weekend (Saturday morning - Sunday night) btw. So during the day Wembley hosts two rakes of 16 coaches, finding space for a third might be problematic/expensive.

 

[TimboM]

Come on then Tim, rather than posting a pointless post about someone being wrong which helps nobody, how about you let us know what actually happened!

It wasn't "pointless" - there was a very clear point that the 2+2 = 6 theory the OP had seen was about as wrong as it could be. Not sure why that then comes with an obligation to provide other details..? Anyway, as you asked...

The cancellation of 1M16 (Inverness to Euston ) might have been something to do with balancing staff/stock moves. But maybe there were no passengers booked on the cancelled service so better to save it for another day ?.

Pretty much... 1M16 was cancelled at Edinburgh primarily because the on-board crews are currently swapping mid-way (Lockerbie) due to Covid-19 / lack of hotels etc. Without 1S25 running it would've meant no way of the 1M16 (Scotland) crew getting back north and no hosts/crew to take over on 1M16 going south.

There were "guests" on it, although clearly not a full train load.

Wembley already hosts a spare rake of 16 coaches during the current COVID-19 service. That seems to be swapped into service every weekend (Saturday morning - Sunday night) btw. So during the day Wembley hosts two rakes of 16 coaches, finding space for a third might be problematic/expensive.

Wembley does have the spare rake there currently, but there's probably enough space at Wembley for more stock (there were lots of the old Mk2s/Mk3s there for quite a while) - the additional issue with the stock would've been the imbalance and then needing to get stock back north - Inverness in particular - for the following night's service.


To clear up a couple of other points, driver changes during the revised timetable are at Crewe and Carlisle (none at Preston). All drivers that would've driven 1M16 that night were available and could've covered 1M16 if it had run through.

 

[91103eastcoast]

Pretty much... 1M16 was cancelled at Edinburgh primarily because the on-board crews are currently swapping mid-way (Lockerbie) due to Covid-19 / lack of hotels etc. Without 1S25 running it would've meant no way of the 1M16 (Scotland) crew getting back north and no hosts/crew to take over on 1M16 going south.

Out if interest, does anyone know where the crews will swap tonight (25/5) as the sleeper is diverted via the ECML? Is it Alnmouth as this is shown as “Service stops for staffing reasons”

 

[TimboM]

Out if interest, does anyone know where the crews will swap tonight (25/5) as the sleeper is diverted via the ECML? Is it Alnmouth as this is shown as “Service stops for staffing reasons”

Yes, Alnmouth.

 

[91103eastcoast]

Yes, Alnmouth.

Thanks

 

[Peter Sarf]

It wasn't "pointless" - there was a very clear point that the 2+2 = 6 theory the OP had seen was about as wrong as it could be. Not sure why that then comes with an obligation to provide other details..? Anyway, as you asked...


Pretty much... 1M16 was cancelled at Edinburgh primarily because the on-board crews are currently swapping mid-way (Lockerbie) due to Covid-19 / lack of hotels etc. Without 1S25 running it would've meant no way of the 1M16 (Scotland) crew getting back north and no hosts/crew to take over on 1M16 going south.

There were "guests" on it, although clearly not a full train load.



Wembley does have the spare rake there currently, but there's probably enough space at Wembley for more stock (there were lots of the old Mk2s/Mk3s there for quite a while) - the additional issue with the stock would've been the imbalance and then needing to get stock back north - Inverness in particular - for the following night's service.


To clear up a couple of other points, driver changes during the revised timetable are at Crewe and Carlisle (none at Preston). All drivers that would've driven 1M16 that night were available and could've covered 1M16 if it had run through.

Thanks @TimboM for the info.

I had forgotten where the various crew changes happen. I presume there are two changeover places for drivers as I expect they are not expected to do such long hours ? - rules.

For those who don't realise it does make sense for the plan to be that the various crews end up back where they started from before their bedtime. That reduces the need for hotel accommodation. Well it works if the journey is of this kind of length. Personally I know I would rather end up back home at the end of every working day. OK well maybe not always !!!.

I have also recently become aware of how many 317s there are in Wembley yard. But there does still seem to be room !. All these spare EMUs !.

 

[xc170]

Just what the loadings like on the sleeper at the moment?

Sparse at best I'd imagine.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Just what the loadings like on the sleeper at the moment?

Sparse at best I'd imagine.

On browsing this thread over recent weeks it seems you're correct. There are some key workers using it apparently but some coaches are closed off etc.

 

[ainsworth74]

The incident at Edinburgh back in August 2019 has now had its RAIB report published. You can find the discussion on that here as it's a topic worthy of its own thread rather than being covered in this more general thread.

 

[jfisher21]

Sleeper was 101 early into Glasgow this morning! It seems they have stopped waiting 2 hours at Edinburgh

 

[185143]

Just recieved the following email from Caledonian Sleeper.

Dear Guest,

Due to the evolving health situation regarding COVID-19, we have made some amendments to our current timetable and product offerings. At the present time we have altered services up to and including 26 June, services post this date remain subject to change. For services from 26 June up to and including 31 August, we have taken the decision to close our seated coaches. This is due to the specific elements of the operational features of our train, which set us apart from other UK operators. We apologise for the inconvenience this may cause to guests who still have essential travel requirements.

Guests who have booked directly with us through our website www.sleeper.scot or through our telesales team, shall be refunded automatically to the card used to make the booking. Our dedicated team are working through these refunds in date order of travel. Please check your bank or credit card statement within the next 14 working days of receiving this email.

Should the refund not be processed for any reason, please email us by visiting our Contact Us page at www.sleeper.scot/contact-us/ and select Change or Refund a Ticket.

We recognise that guests who have booked the seated coach may still have essential travel requirements and therefore for a limited time period you can book a Classic Room using the unique discount code [****] to receive 50% of the Classic Room price for your original date of travel, subject to availability. The Classic Room can be booked for solo or double occupancy. This code is only valid between 29th May to 13th June on journeys between 28 June 20 to 31 August 2020. Bookings made after this will not be discounted.

Should you still require to travel you can book a room by visiting our website at www.sleeper.scot. When making the reservation using the discount code, please use the email address that was used to make the original reservation, in order to validate the discount code.

I was booked to travel to Inverness and back in the seats near the end of August. Obviously if they're only wanting passengers with essential travel requirements I will be taking the refund and not travelling.

However. I've had a quick look at the berths using the discount code offered. The cheapest flexible room for the Northbound journey was £85 and for the Southbound was £97.50. That's obviously significantly more expensive than the £48.20 each way I'd paid for the seats. That doesn't sit right with me really, having booked the seats in good faith and then being told the only way I'd be able to travel for an essential journey is to buy new tickets at nearly double the cost of the originals, whilst being happy to travel in the seats. I've no idea if it's happened on the Mk5s yet, but plenty of people (myself included) will have recieved a free upgrade to a room when the seated coaches have been unavailable for any reason. I don't really see why this should be any different given the low passenger numbers and the circumstances involved-though obviously not for any new bookings from this date forward.

Obviously that's a bit of a moot point given I'm not travelling, but still. Also, what are the "specific elements of the operational features of our train"?[/QUOTE]

 

[xc170]

Railways making up guidelines as they go along then...

 

[alistairlees]

Railways making up guidelines as they go along then...

Nope.

 

[xc170]

Nope.

Well, yes.

Why the reason for closing the seated coach when it's an accepted way of travelling on standard trains and buses?

 

[alistairlees]

Well, yes.

Why the reason for closing the seated coach when it's an accepted way of travelling on standard trains and buses?

If the seated coach is infected it has to be removed for deep cleaning. The rest of the train can't run without it, as it contains both the train management system and the handbrake. So no train at all. Definitely "nope", not "yes".

 

[xc170]

If the seated coach is infected it has to be removed for deep cleaning. The rest of the train can't run without it, as it contains both the train management system and the handbrake. So no train at all. Definitely "nope", not "yes".

Same could be said for most modern trains, most coaches contain equipment the rest of the train couldn't run without if said coach got infected...

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the seated coach is infected it has to be removed for deep cleaning.

Exactly how many hours do they need to deep-clean it?

Is "most of the day while it's parked up waiting for that evening" somehow not enough?

But even so, having made that decision, the correct thing to do would be to offer free upgrades as they do when it's out of use for other reasons.