Long term social distancing: Impact on public life & public transport?

[111-111-1]

Given that many other countries are controlling transmission without this rule, this is clearly untrue.

In UK it is true, other country do different thing but in UK public transport not to be used for non essential jouneys.

 

[yorksrob]

In UK it is true, other country do different thing but in UK public transport not to be used for non essential jouneys.

It is factually incorrect to say that there "is no other way possible" if there clearly are other ways to do things as demonstrated in other countries.

There is no excuse for us to be doing things in a more harmful way if it is demonstrated elsewhere that this is not necessary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is factually incorrect to say that there "is no other way possible" if there clearly are other ways to do things as demonstrated in other countries.

There is no excuse for us to be doing things in a more harmful way if it is demonstrated elsewhere that this is not necessary.

"Not invented here syndrome" is very strong in UK passenger transport management. You need look no further than the benefits of dual door on buses, off bus ticketing, or the UIC folding slamdoor which if implemented here would have saved many lives prior to "it's fruitless if it's not orange" CDL...

 

[Class 170101]

I don't think we will see much travelling this year on trains beyond essential journeys.

People will stay more local if they leave home at all, schools are supposedly going back tomorrow, for some years, but not all so child care will remain the same with parents staying home to look after those children not at school, especially since grandparents are still in the vulnerable category with children potentially as super spreaders. Workers thus aren't likely to move from working at home, being parents too.

In the office and school how does social distancing physically work there simply isn't enough room for all to return and frankly seeing how people behave in supermarkets it just wouldn't be wise. Many people have no concept of two metres or anything like it and I would challenge people to estimate two metres in their own home, mark it and then measure it and see how close you are in reality, so this is a reason NOT to reduce the advertised distance (2m) in the hope that we might maintain an actual safe distance whether that be 1.5m or even one metre.

Finally it would not surprise me if there was a lockdown from around October this year until around April next year (approximately) to enable the NHS to manage the Winter Flu season without Coronavirus on top of it, in which case again services would reduce to deter and also manage staff sickness levels against what can be provided because of it.

 

[Huntergreed]

In UK it is true, other country do different thing but in UK public transport not to be used for non essential jouneys.

First of all that’s not the guidance just now. The legislation has been posted in here before and it states that public transport can be used for the permitted reasons, which includes travelling for recreation or leisure, anywhere in England.

Secondly, the worst thing we could possibly do is restrict the system further, making it harder to restart the economy and costing the government more money than the massive amounts they’ve already spent. The message is currently being advertised as “essential only” by many TOC’s for reasons I don’t fully understand, but restricting the network through legislation like this isn’t going to help us get back to a more healthy state of existence in any way.

 

[northernchris]

Well, I've certainly written to my member of parliament to express my concern about the lack of provision for the needs of people who don't drive in the guidance (if not the law).

It's a good job that we have this forum to impart information. The official channels have been useless.

Please let us know how you get on, I'd contact my MP but he's worse than useless and doubt I'd get a response

 

[Mag_seven]

The legislation has been posted in here before and it states that public transport can be used for the permitted reasons, which includes travelling for recreation or leisure, anywhere in England.

I'm not too sure that it does (at least explicitly) unfortunately.

 

[yorksrob]

Please let us know how you get on, I'd contact my MP but he's worse than useless and doubt I'd get a response

I will report back if I hear anything.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Finally it would not surprise me if there was a lockdown from around October this year until around April next year (approximately) to enable the NHS to manage the Winter Flu season without Coronavirus on top of it, in which case again services would reduce to deter and also manage staff sickness levels against what can be provided because of it.

I think if that was the case there would be mass disobedience, as it would destroy the economy completely to have another long period of full lockdown.

What I have heard talk of is making the flu vaccine available to all for free this year, which would, if the strains are predicted correctly, take it near enough fully out of the equation, albeit at a price.

 

[Huntergreed]

Finally it would not surprise me if there was a lockdown from around October this year until around April next year (approximately) to enable the NHS to manage the Winter Flu season without Coronavirus on top of it, in which case again services would reduce to deter and also manage staff sickness levels against what can be provided because of it.

Thinking of the extent of the damage that the last two months of lockdown have caused, I dread to even imagine what things would be like if we had to lockdown again, let alone for 7 months. Our economy (which funds the NHS) would completely collapse, millions of jobs would be lost, mental health and suicides would be through the roof. The damage that this proposal would cause makes the damage of this lockdown seem negligible, and that’s something that we must avoid.

 

[philosopher]

Well, I've certainly written to my member of parliament to express my concern about the lack of provision for the needs of people who don't drive in the guidance (if not the law).

It's a good job that we have this forum to impart information. The official channels have been useless.

At the end of the day it is only guidance, not a law to avoid travel by train where possible, so people can legally ignore it. I do think social distancing on trains will become increasingly hard to manage in the summer. The government will either have relax the social distancing measures on trains or restrict travel to those who can prove their journey is for work. The former increases the risk of infection, the latter is obviously unfair on those without a car and I wouldn’t be surprised if such a rule results quite a few ugly scenes between staff and passengers.

 

[Huntergreed]

At the end of the day it is only guidance, not a law to avoid travel by train where possible, so people can legally ignore it. I do think social distancing on trains will become increasingly hard to manage in the summer. The government will either have relax the social distancing measures on trains or restrict travel to those who can prove their journey is for work. The former increases the risk of infection, the latter is obviously unfair on those without a car and I wouldn’t be surprised if such a rule results quite a few ugly scenes between staff and passengers.

Looking at what’s happened in Europe and other countries, we are certainly able to open the transport network to many more passengers without completely scrapping social distancing. Reducing the distance to 1m, enforcing a compulsory mask wearing rule and moving to a compulsory reservation form of ticketing are all examples of how we could approach opening up the transport network without risking spreading the infection too much.

Whether the government will actually do this, despite it being the logical thing to do, is another question entirely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At the end of the day it is only guidance, not a law to avoid travel by train where possible, so people can legally ignore it. I do think social distancing on trains will become increasingly hard to manage in the summer. The government will either have relax the social distancing measures on trains or restrict travel to those who can prove their journey is for work. The former increases the risk of infection, the latter is obviously unfair on those without a car and I wouldn’t be surprised if such a rule results quite a few ugly scenes between staff and passengers.

Or, you introduce compulsory reservations and manage it that way. When it's full, it's full. There's even scope to manage it more carefully than that by using Advance pricing to direct people to trains they know will be quiet, and when reservations look like a particular train is getting busy looking to see if it can be strengthened.

(see my other thread if you wish to discuss it further, though)

 

[philosopher]

Looking at what’s happened in Europe and other countries, we are certainly able to open the transport network to many more passengers without completely scrapping social distancing. Reducing the distance to 1m, enforcing a compulsory mask wearing rule and moving to a compulsory reservation form of ticketing are all examples of how we could approach opening up the transport network without risking spreading the infection too much.

Whether the government will actually do this, despite it being the logical thing to do, is another question entirely.

Compulsory face masks seems a no brainier to me. Masks are cheap, so for those passengers without one, they can just give one for free.

 

[woodhouse122]

By the middle of june when the shops start opening up in the town centres and the kids go back to school there is going to be chaos on the buses and trains. i had to go into sheffield city centre last week and the bus had to stop picking up passengers due to the 18 passenger limit (in a normal peak hour bus queue where i live there can have that many people waiting so how they are going to cope i don't know)

 

[yorksrob]

At the end of the day it is only guidance, not a law to avoid travel by train where possible, so people can legally ignore it. I do think social distancing on trains will become increasingly hard to manage in the summer. The government will either have relax the social distancing measures on trains or restrict travel to those who can prove their journey is for work. The former increases the risk of infection, the latter is obviously unfair on those without a car and I wouldn’t be surprised if such a rule results quite a few ugly scenes between staff and passengers.

There will be ways to mitigate the risks of relaxing (rather than abandoning) social distancing on public transport. My fear is that it will just be seen as easier to disadvantage and ignore the needs of those of us who are reliant on public transport than to actually work out how to do it (or copy other countries). That is why I feel that the time has come to be more vocal - hence my correspondence with the MP.

I don't even have a problem with restricting travel to those doing so for work - at certain times, so long as provision is made at other times for us to go about our business. This is what Paris did during their lockdown. Unfortunately it seems a case of public transport users are out of sight and out of mind, therefore they can't be bothered.

 

[baz962]

The train's I drove today were , in my opinion almost or as busy as a pre covid Sunday

 

[yorksrob]

The train's I drove today were , in my opinion almost or as busy as a pre covid Sunday

Whereabouts were those, out of interest ?

 

[Bantamzen]

I don't think we will see much travelling this year on trains beyond essential journeys.

People will stay more local if they leave home at all, schools are supposedly going back tomorrow, for some years, but not all so child care will remain the same with parents staying home to look after those children not at school, especially since grandparents are still in the vulnerable category with children potentially as super spreaders. Workers thus aren't likely to move from working at home, being parents too.

In the office and school how does social distancing physically work there simply isn't enough room for all to return and frankly seeing how people behave in supermarkets it just wouldn't be wise. Many people have no concept of two metres or anything like it and I would challenge people to estimate two metres in their own home, mark it and then measure it and see how close you are in reality, so this is a reason NOT to reduce the advertised distance (2m) in the hope that we might maintain an actual safe distance whether that be 1.5m or even one metre.

Finally it would not surprise me if there was a lockdown from around October this year until around April next year (approximately) to enable the NHS to manage the Winter Flu season without Coronavirus on top of it, in which case again services would reduce to deter and also manage staff sickness levels against what can be provided because of it.

A six or seven month lockdown? Given that 3 months is going to cost upwards of £300-350 billion, I'm afraid to say that would be the death knell for the NHS.

 

[BJames]

I think if that was the case there would be mass disobedience, as it would destroy the economy completely to have another long period of full lockdown.

What I have heard talk of is making the flu vaccine available to all for free this year, which would, if the strains are predicted correctly, take it near enough fully out of the equation, albeit at a price.

This sounds like the sensible thing to do. And a lockdown as the other poster has mentioned is quite simply out of the question. People will not respond to it in quite the same spirit as they have done this time. Indeed, just yesterday, the Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden spoke at the Press Conference and admitted that they expect compliance with any future lockdowns to be considerably less than this one and that's why they are trying to avoid this happening - they know it won't work again.

 

[Class 170101]

Thinking of the extent of the damage that the last two months of lockdown have caused, I dread to even imagine what things would be like if we had to lockdown again, let alone for 7 months. Our economy (which funds the NHS) would completely collapse, millions of jobs would be lost, mental health and suicides would be through the roof. The damage that this proposal would cause makes the damage of this lockdown seem negligible, and that’s something that we must avoid.

The risk of course is that the NHS itself could collapse if we are all outside spreading the virus en-masse. A situation like Italy is still possible in my book, via a potential second phase.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The risk of course is that the NHS itself could collapse if we are all outside spreading the virus en-masse. A situation like Italy is still possible in my book, via a potential second phase.

An overloaded NHS would be less of a concern than complete economic collapse, though. Neither is ideal, but the latter affects literally everyone.

 

[Killingworth]

The train's I drove today were , in my opinion almost or as busy as a pre covid Sunday

It's likely the position varies across the country, within cities and probably between transport routes. It seems to be like one long Bank Holiday in the Peak District but from what I've seen and heard very few are getting there on trains from the Sheffield side. Certainly passenger numbers are nothing like any normal end of May period.

To that extent the measure are working. Folks getting sunshine, but mostly well spread out.

 

[BJames]

The risk of course is that the NHS itself could collapse if we are all outside spreading the virus en-masse. A situation like Italy is still possible in my book, via a potential second phase.

NHS is funded through taxpayer money. Furlough can't continue past October as Sunak said. I take your point but I really don't think it's just as simple as what you're saying. People can't afford to go back into lockdown for that amount of time.

 

[underbank]

A six or seven month lockdown? Given that 3 months is going to cost upwards of £300-350 billion, I'm afraid to say that would be the death knell for the NHS.

But even with a form of lockdown, lots of the economy/business ARE still continuing. Plenty of factories, warehouses, distribution firms are as busy as normal, if not busier. Inevitably, we're losing the hospitality, tourism & leisure industries, so there is a massive economic impact, but it's not as if the entire economy has closed down. I think the monthly "cost" of govt support and loss of tax revenue etc., will rapidly fall as each month passes, especially with the withdrawal of the furlough scheme - it's a massive wake up call for employers and employees to plan for the next phase.

 

[underbank]

NHS is funded through taxpayer money. Furlough can't continue past October as Sunak said. I take your point but I really don't think it's just as simple as what you're saying. People can't afford to go back into lockdown for that amount of time.

We have to remember that a lot of staff havn't been furloughed, i.e. most of the public sector, so they're still paying the normal levels of tax and NIC, and will probably be paying more in future years as tax/nic rises to pay for all this. Likewise, people living on pensions won't have seen an income fall either and will continue to be paying normal levels of tax. We could be looking at many millions of people who havn't actually seen any drop in income levels.

 

[111-111-1]

As others have explained, it depends on your definition of "essential". If an individual feels that it's essential for the sake of their mental or physical health to make a train journey to the country or the seaside then that is very much permitted and, in my opinion, should be encouraged.

It might be good for physical or mental health but essentiall? How many would get a letter from a medical person to say it is essential rather than good?

 

[baz962]

It's likely the position varies across the country, within cities and probably between transport routes. It seems to be like one long Bank Holiday in the Peak District but from what I've seen and heard very few are on getting there on trains from the Sheffield side. Certainly passenger numbers are nothing like any normal end of May period.

To that extent the measure are working. Folks getting sunshine, bit mostly well spread out.

Of course. I am now travelling home on a train of a different toc and it's empty.

 

[yorksrob]

Put it this way, at some stage this year I intend to see my family. They live at the other end of the country, so that will be by train. Whilst we don't live in eachothers pockets all of the time, I do regard seeing them periodically as essential, even though it would be classed as leisure travel.

 

[Huntergreed]

Put it this way, at some stage this year I intend to see my family. They live at the other end of the country, so that will be by train. Whilst we don't live in eachothers pockets all of the time, I do regard seeing them periodically as essential, even though it would be classed as leisure travel.

Exactly, and sooner or later the general public will realise this and I imagine won’t be too happy. They need to take action sooner rather than later otherwise it will be a case of financial discrimination against those who can’t afford a car or to learn to drive.