Out with credit-card sized stock and in with mobile ticketing - is it too early?

[jon0844]

Many TVMs have barcode readers now (not sure if any have ever been put into use?) so those who do not wish to print their ticket (or can't) but not risk being caught short on the train could perhaps scan the ticket on a TVM to have a ticket/code printed onto standard ticket stock?

Ticket machines are unlikely to ever completely go, even if their numbers could be reduced in time. They could, and should, be updated so they can provide other options - like managing tickets on smartcards, allowing people to plan routes, check times and so on. I don't buy the idea that if and when ticket offices close, they'll remove everything entirely (and if that does happen, it would only be when almost everyone stops using them).

 

[NoMorePacers]

I wonder what fate will befall the various rover and ranger tickets that exist with this new system?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder what fate will befall the various rover and ranger tickets that exist with this new system?

Can they be encoded onto the e-ticket format? TBH, I have wondered if it would be easier for RDG to take them out of the main ticketing system and just sell them online, as PDF e-tickets only, from a single website, as they are rather niche and don't suit being sold from a journey planner well, and do tend to cause a fair bit of confusion at staffed booking offices too.

Having said that, if they are the cheapest through fare for a given journey, the NRE planner does suggest them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many TVMs have barcode readers now (not sure if any have ever been put into use?) so those who do not wish to print their ticket (or can't) but not risk being caught short on the train could perhaps scan the ticket on a TVM to have a ticket/code printed onto standard ticket stock?

Ticket machines are unlikely to ever completely go, even if their numbers could be reduced in time. They could, and should, be updated so they can provide other options - like managing tickets on smartcards, allowing people to plan routes, check times and so on. I don't buy the idea that if and when ticket offices close, they'll remove everything entirely (and if that does happen, it would only be when almost everyone stops using them).

Yes, I do think a reprint facility would be sensible, and most airlines offer it even as a chargeable thing. It'd be a lot easier if there was only one retailer, because that could just be a PC style "kiosk" to log into the site and reprint, but there must be other ways of doing it easily from TVMs.

One way of doing this could be to put names on tickets. This could be optional, but would have the benefit, if you elected to do so, that you could reprint any ticket just by entering some basic details at a TVM - perhaps name, origin, destination and date would be enough to stop people just making up combinations to steal other peoples' tickets, and staff could carefully question any oddities like a male travelling on a ticket with "Mrs A Smith" on it, or an obviously white English person travelling on a ticket with a very obviously Asian name, say. There is a sort-of parallel to this in Germany, where in most of the Verbund areas you can choose, at the same or similar price, either a named or transferrable season ticket, if you choose the former and you forget to take it that day you can get any Penalty Fare refunded, but if you choose the latter you can't as someone else could be using it.

Further security could be added by requiring the payment card to be inserted, but I'm thinking a good use-case for this would be when someone has been mugged and so doesn't have it, or as a replacement for the SILK process.

 

[35B]

Yes, I do think a reprint facility would be sensible, and most airlines offer it even as a chargeable thing. It'd be a lot easier if there was only one retailer, because that could just be a PC style "kiosk" to log into the site and reprint, but there must be other ways of doing it easily from TVMs.

One way of doing this could be to put names on tickets. This could be optional, but would have the benefit, if you elected to do so, that you could reprint any ticket just by entering some basic details at a TVM - perhaps name, origin, destination and date would be enough to stop people just making up combinations to steal other peoples' tickets, and staff could carefully question any oddities like a male travelling on a ticket with "Mrs A Smith" on it, or an obviously white English person travelling on a ticket with a very obviously Asian name, say. There is a sort-of parallel to this in Germany, where in most of the Verbund areas you can choose, at the same or similar price, either a named or transferrable season ticket, if you choose the former and you forget to take it that day you can get any Penalty Fare refunded, but if you choose the latter you can't as someone else could be using it.

Further security could be added by requiring the payment card to be inserted, but I'm thinking a good use-case for this would be when someone has been mugged and so doesn't have it, or as a replacement for the SILK process.

Just on the point of a single retailer, the railways have had history within monopoly behaviour so a single retailer would be a very poor step for customers. Defining a clear standard, however, that would allow any customer of any retailer to access their booking in this way, would be very pro-customer.

 

[317 forever]

So you willing use an e-ticket then?

Absolutely nothing wrong in printing an e-ticket onto paper. As I said upthread an e-ticket could even be printed onto orange credit card ticket stock!

How you choose to display an e-ticket is up to you. It's not different to an airline boarding pass. As a bit of a traditionalist I always used to print mine but more recently I've started to just show them on my phone as I find it far easier.

While I do not have a smartphone, I cannot download any app to my basic mobile. However, I am not against E-tickets printed off on A4 paper. I do this with coach and flight tickets already. Once staff at barriers and on trains can scan the barcodes, there will be little need to print off Advance tickets from fast ticket machines.

 

[317 forever]

Indeed. Although it took monts to convince them to do this! They tried to insist on etickets in app only, for a ridiculously long time. NB this wasn't a case of M-ticket confusion.

I had a problem like this when I booked a ticket on the TPE website just before Christmas. I got my ticket reference, then they advised me something about downloading the app to validate the ticket. I noted how this happened AFTER I had agreed the E-ticket option. Fortunately, they agreed to refund the ticket if I rebooked it as a TOD immediately, which I did.

Someone on here (possibly Yorkie) pointed out that I may have been issued an M-ticket.

Why they could not keep to a real E-ticket - ie an email with a ticket reference with name and train in question - is beyond me. There seems to be too wide an assumption generally that we all have smartphone and can download any app to it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It wouldn't really be viable to do a Megabus style "the reference number in any form" because it'd be too slow at barriers. It probably does need to be a machine readable barcode, however presented.

Some European operators do the former, but they tend to be in countries that don't do barriers.

 

[Clip]

Thermal printing is generally used in ticket offices, no ink or printer cartridges involved.

I see, thanks for the info. Always wondered

 

[Starmill]

I can see why they want to - even with using your card at a ticket window, the booking clerk has to print off and hand you your ticket and receipt which isnt ideal.

Many booking offices have been issuing etickets for a rather long time now, but yes.

 

[6Gman]

It doesn't need to, certainly. But I can see easily why it would for some people.

Ah, you've seen me trying to text !

 

[6Gman]

Buy the tickets from your phone. You don’t need an app. If there are two of your travelling you don’t need a second phone - you can slow both tickets on one phone.

When you say "phone" do you mean any phone or do you mean I-phone?

(Can't see how my mobile phone could work to buy a ticket)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many booking offices have been issuing etickets for a rather long time now, but yes.

I must admit to finding that a little bizarre. If I want a ticket on my phone, why wouldn't I just buy one on my phone?

 

[Bletchleyite]

When you say "phone" do you mean any phone or do you mean I-phone?

(Can't see how my mobile phone could work to buy a ticket)

Any vaguely recent smartphone will work, either Android or Apple. If you have an old-style dumbphone it won't, though some of those may have PDF viewers, so if the screen is big enough to show the barcode it may work for display rather than purchase.

 

[6Gman]

Buy the tickets from your phone. You don’t need an app. If there are two of your travelling you don’t need a second phone - you can slow both tickets on one phone.

Not if we are travelling separately we can't.

Example: I have a Saturday morning meeting. My wife gets the 0930 to Liverpool. Work completed, I go on the 1230 to meet up with her.

Only one I-phone.

(EDIT: Just seen other earlier responses that we would need two I-phones - or similar. What a load of faff to little purpose!)

 

[alistairlees]

Not if we are travelling separately we can't.

Example: I have a Saturday morning meeting. My wife gets the 0930 to Liverpool. Work completed, I go on the 1230 to meet up with her.

Only one I-phone.

(EDIT: Just seen other earlier responses that we would need two I-phones - or similar. What a load of faff to little purpose!)

Does your wife have a smartphone of her own?

 

[6Gman]

Does your wife have a smartphone of her own?

Neither of us have a smartphone of our own.

We have one. Jointly owned. Like our landline, our fridge, our television etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Neither of us have a smartphone of our own.

We have one. Jointly owned. Like our landline, our fridge, our television etc.

Why not replace your two separate dumbphones with a smartphone each rather than one between you? Then you're only paying for two phones, not three. One could have the iPhone, and the other a budget Android phone perhaps, there's loads of them and they're not expensive, and all of them will do basic things like train tickets as well as making and receiving phone calls.

Even my technophobe parents have one each now!

 

[CyrusWuff]

Sad to think that as far back as December 2006, Chiltern were trialling barcode tickets that could be displayed on almost ANY mobile phone, yet nowadays you need a PDF viewer or smartphone.

Granted those early tickets were nowhere near as sophisticated as the current generation, mind you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sad to think that as far back as December 2006, Chiltern were trialling barcode tickets that could be displayed on almost ANY mobile phone, yet nowadays you need a PDF viewer or smartphone.

Granted those early tickets were nowhere near as sophisticated as the current generation, mind you.

PDF viewers are available on the vast majority of even vaguely recent devices, even dumbphones. Not so if you're on an original Nokia, but who is?

 

[Starmill]

I must admit to finding that a little bizarre. If I want a ticket on my phone, why wouldn't I just buy one on my phone?

Beats me. But they're desperate.

 

[6Gman]

Why not replace your two separate dumbphones with a smartphone each rather than one between you? Then you're only paying for two phones, not three. One could have the iPhone, and the other a budget Android phone perhaps, there's loads of them and they're not expensive, and all of them will do basic things like train tickets as well as making and receiving phone calls.

Even my technophobe parents have one each now!

When they need replacement we might do that, but in the meantime we do not intend to throw away perfectly good phones.

 

[6Gman]

Why not replace your two separate dumbphones with a smartphone each rather than one between you? Then you're only paying for two phones, not three. One could have the iPhone, and the other a budget Android phone perhaps, there's loads of them and they're not expensive, and all of them will do basic things like train tickets as well as making and receiving phone calls.

Even my technophobe parents have one each now!

We have already paid for the two phones.

 

[AM9]

Why not replace your two separate dumbphones with a smartphone each rather than one between you? Then you're only paying for two phones, not three. One could have the iPhone, and the other a budget Android phone perhaps, there's loads of them and they're not expensive, and all of them will do basic things like train tickets as well as making and receiving phone calls.

Even my technophobe parents have one each now!

I have had smartphones since about 2008. I use them for various things when travelling, including RTT and OTT and whilst not as adept at their use as the average 8 year old , I have no problems with using them. What I can't understand is why I would want to replace paper tickets with any form of ticket on my phone. What would it do that I can't without it please?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have had smartphones since about 2008. I use them for various things when travelling, including RTT and OTT and whilst not as adept at their use as the average 8 year old , I have no problems with using them. What I can't understand is why I would want to replace paper tickets with any form of ticket on my phone. What would it do that I can't without it please?

The main benefit of phone ticketing is purchase - there is never a need to queue to buy a ticket on your phone - or if you're buying an Advance you don't have to worry about ToD messing up, as it alarmingly often does.

 

[philthetube]

Why not replace your two separate dumbphones with a smartphone each rather than one between you? Then you're only paying for two phones, not three. One could have the iPhone, and the other a budget Android phone perhaps, there's loads of them and they're not expensive, and all of them will do basic things like train tickets as well as making and receiving phone calls.

Even my technophobe parents have one each now!

My mother is deaf and 87, I defy you to teach her how to do mobile ticketing in any format or to persuade her that a mobile would be a good idea when that would be the only use she would have for it, please don't suggest a tablet because she couldn't cope with that eithe, nor would she want to.

She struggles with her Tivo box, (virgin media).

Three years ago I was on a coach holiday with approx 50 over 80's out of interest I asked how many smart phones were on the coach, excluding myself and the driver there were three, so there is a long way to go before paper tickets can be phased out.

Toatlly accept that it will happen at some time in the future.

 

[6Gman]

Out of curiosity, I tried buying a ticket on my I-phone. It involved the following stages:

1. Switch it on
2. Go to internet
3. Go to National Rail
4. Go to journey planner
5. Type in starting point
6. Type in destination
7. Press Go
8. Click on ticket option
9. Redirected to TfW site
10. Choose option to buy online
11. Click on "how to buy online help"
12. Get blank screen . . .

Had it worked I would presumably have needed:

13. Confirm ticket choice
14. Choose payment option
15. Type in 16-digit card number
16. Expiry date
17. CVV code

Is that it?

Or I can go into the booking office and say "Day Return Nantwich please" and wave my card at the card reader, take my ticket and travel.

Appreciate there may be some short cuts as you become more used to the system, but . . .

 

[_toommm_]

Out of curiosity, I tried buying a ticket on my I-phone. It involved the following stages:

1. Switch it on
2. Go to internet
3. Go to National Rail
4. Go to journey planner
5. Type in starting point
6. Type in destination
7. Press Go
8. Click on ticket option
9. Redirected to TfW site
10. Choose option to buy online
11. Click on "how to buy online help"
12. Get blank screen . . .

Had it worked I would presumably have needed:

13. Confirm ticket choice
14. Choose payment option
15. Type in 16-digit card number
16. Expiry date
17. CVV code

Is that it?

Or I can go into the booking office and say "Day Return Nantwich please" and wave my card at the card reader, take my ticket and travel.

Appreciate there may be some short cuts as you become more used to the system, but . . .

Yoy don’t really need to go via NRE, you can go straight into your app of choice. If you create an account with your TOC of choice, they’ll store your card details, all you need to remember is the three-digit CVV. Once you get used to it it takes less than a minute.

 

[py_megapixel]

If anyone was looking to move to e-tickets, I would now highly recommend the TransPennine app. They now issue proper e-tickets that can be shown in the app and they’re emailed to you as a PDF, and you get Nectar points back on all tickets.

Are you certain of this? Attempting to buy an E-ticket on the TransPennine website indicates that the app is required to view the ticket:


Of course I don't actually want to travel at the moment due to Covid-19 so I didn't proceed further than this.

 

[_toommm_]

Are you certain of this? Attempting to buy an E-ticket on the TransPennine website indicates that the app is required to view the ticket:
View attachment 79135

Of course I don't actually want to travel at the moment due to Covid-19 so I didn't proceed further than this.

100% certain. As soon as you book it, you get given the option to download the e-ticket, and it gets emailed to you too:

(Post edited to remove my full name from the ticket)