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Long distance heritage dmu journeys

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delt1c

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I didn't realise they ran that late. Bet it was fun!
It was great , did it twice dep Queen St 10.05, return depareted Oban 17.35. On Both Ocasions it was the prototype White Ghost 101. Sitting in the 1st class section with the Intercity seats same as fitted to MkII stock was so comfortable and what a great view ahead. 2+1 seating in a 101, shame that this unit had asbestos and was scrapped early
 
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Helvellyn

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Wasn't aware of such a trial. My hunch would be because, unlike the captive, late-build 120s on that line, they would not be fitted with Manson's automatic tablet exchange equipment at the guards' position. This wasn't just a simple fitting, but required a bodywork alteration to install it. Someone wrote that the actual exchangers came off the former steam locomotives used there.

The Gloucester RCW 119s were not just mechanically the same as the 120s, their as-built drawings and internal layout and fittings were the same as well, apart from the Derby-style cab windows instead of the Swindon design. Gloucester were a longstanding Swindon subcontractor, well back into GWR days, and Swindon used to actually procure a lot of the components themselves and send them up by the vanload to Gloucester, right down to BR-spec paint.
I'd have thought the Class 123s would potentially have been useful for the Far North lines, particularly with their 230hp Albion engines (compared with the 150hp of the Class 119s).
 

Journeyman

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The Gloucester RCW 119s were not just mechanically the same as the 120s, their as-built drawings and internal layout and fittings were the same as well, apart from the Derby-style cab windows instead of the Swindon design. Gloucester were a longstanding Swindon subcontractor, well back into GWR days, and Swindon used to actually procure a lot of the components themselves and send them up by the vanload to Gloucester, right down to BR-spec paint.

Weren't the interiors different? I'm sure I read somewhere that the 120s were somewhat gloomy inside, but the 119s may have been initially as well - I know they were rather more extensively refurbished than the 120s.
 

Journeyman

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I'd have thought the Class 123s would potentially have been useful for the Far North lines, particularly with their 230hp Albion engines (compared with the 150hp of the Class 119s).

What are the gradients like on the Far North? I got the impression when travelling on it that it's mostly pretty flat.
 

30907

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You are probably correct , these things get hazy in my mind with time.
You are in fact both right!
Once the Swindon IC units got to London they weren't too busy on weekends so a Saturday trip down to the West made sense. I can only find a reference online:
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133904-blue-class-123-dmu/#comment-3154065
However the 1969 WTTs which I have just unearthed confirm it - there were in fact two summer Saturday Minehead trains:
0624 Oxford-Reading-Minehead loco hauled, maximum load 9 and slowest timings - which fits with a Hymek - returning to Paddington;
0850 Paddington-Minehead and return, booked DMU - which would have been the Intercity set(s) as otherwise there were only suburban units back then.
 

delt1c

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I'd have thought the Class 123s would potentially have been useful for the Far North lines, particularly with their 230hp Albion engines (compared with the 150hp of the Class 119s).
It was the Swindon Edinburgh - Glasgow DMU's basically 126's. There are a few steep climbs espicially up to Lairg Summit.
 

Mcr Warrior

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What are the gradients like on the Far North? I got the impression when travelling on it that it's mostly pretty flat.
Whilst there are flattish sections, the Far North Line from Inverness to Thurso/Wick does rise up to as high as 708 feet above sea level at the County March summit (in the remote country between Forsinard and Altnabreac stations) and this section includes a 1 in 60 gradient.

There is also a 1 in 70 gradient on Eastbound workings over Lairg Summit (488 feet above sea level) between Lairg and Rogart stations.

Inverness and Wick stations, by comparison, are on the coast and so are scarcely above sea level.
 

randyrippley

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Weren't the interiors different? I'm sure I read somewhere that the 120s were somewhat gloomy inside, but the 119s may have been initially as well - I know they were rather more extensively refurbished than the 120s.

They were different inside - or at least by the 1970s they were. You could tell them apart but I can't remember exactly how............wood vs formica panels rings a memory bell
 

sluf

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I remember going from Preston to RAF Finningley on an excursion in 1982/83 on a first gen DMU. Seem to think we went via Manchester, Sheffield, Retford to Lincoln then reversed back towards Doncaster to arrive at the temporary station built for the airshow. Cant recall what class of DMU though.Think it was 6 cars in total. Think Finningley is now Doncaster Sheffield Airport.
 

Taunton

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Regarding the Swindon 120s being more gloomy inside than the Gloucester RCW built to the same drawings, I had that same impression if you sat in the front (as I always hoped to). The Swindon front end, just two windscreens and a lot of intermediate metal, seemed to let much less sunlight through than the fully glazed Derby front end on the Gloucesters, which made them, and the saloon behind, notably brighter. Someone else can work out the extra glazed area. Am I correct that the Derby front was actually built on the jigs there and sent down to Gloucester, same approach as later done with Pressed Steel and Birmingham RCW units for the WR.

However the 1969 WTTs which I have just unearthed confirm it - there were in fact two summer Saturday Minehead trains:
0624 Oxford-Reading-Minehead loco hauled, maximum load 9 and slowest timings - which fits with a Hymek - returning to Paddington;
0850 Paddington-Minehead and return, booked DMU - which would have been the Intercity set(s) as otherwise there were only suburban units back then.
I somewhat remember those Oxfords, but did they run via Reading rather than Didcot West curve and Swindon, then either via Trowbridge or Bristol TM ?

The Cardiff-Plymouth service went over to the 123s when they were first introduced, but a Hymek+8 seemed to deputise sometimes, and it wasn't long before the reversion was permanent. The 123s always seemed to growl away noisily but slowly west from Taunton in the late morning, I wonder what speed they went over the top of Dainton at. What was shown in the WTT was a good guide but not always gospel.

Regarding "slowest timings ... fits with a Hymek", that doesn't readily follow. When they were new, D7024-39 went to South Wales, where they fully took over from steam the Swansea/Cardiff to Paddington expresses in early 1962. Even got a mention by John Adams and Pat Whitehouse in Railway Roundabout on the TV. These were always the heaviest expresses on the whole of the WR, commonly 13 coaches, long a real task for the Landore Castles, and quite why they got secondary diesels (until bumped by new Westerns about 18 months later) not apparent. But goodness, the Hymek performance was up to at least Warship standard, if not beyond. Visiting family at the time near Patchway station I used to go down there, where from the Up platform you get a very good view of the crest of the long ascent from the Severn Tunnel. You heard them coming first, that distinctive full power Hymek Yang-Yang-Yang-Yang staccato sound, quite different from the complex burbling of Warships and Westerns (I could also hear Hymeks accelerating a away westwards from Taunton in the middle of the night from our house, a good half mile from the line). Then steadily first the horns on the roof, then the windscreens, and finally the whole loco front appeared as they breasted the summit onto the flat. They seemed to have readily managed 40-50mph up the long drag. If it had been an electric transmission loco the driver would be watching carefully his ammeter red lines. On a hydraulic it was just push the throttle right round and sit back.
 

Sprinter107

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Weren't the interiors different? I'm sure I read somewhere that the 120s were somewhat gloomy inside, but the 119s may have been initially as well - I know they were rather more extensively refurbished than the 120s.
They were basically the same. The vestibles at each end of the saloons had bigger windows on the class 120s than the class 119s. The 120s were fitted with curtains in both first and second class, whereby, the class 119s only had curtains in first class, and pull down blinds in second. The 120s had oval mirrors in some saloons, but i dont think the 119s did. I dont really think one was anymore gloomy than the other. However, when the 119s were refurbed, the saloons were brightened up with cream panelling, and flourescent lighting, they did a nice job with them. Only a couple of 120s were refurbed, then no more were done, i saw a picture of one once, it seemed a more extensive refurb than on the 119s as they lowered the saloon ceilings.
 

delt1c

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They were basically the same. The vestibles at each end of the saloons had bigger windows on the class 120s than the class 119s. The 120s were fitted with curtains in both first and second class, whereby, the class 119s only had curtains in first class, and pull down blinds in second. The 120s had oval mirrors in some saloons, but i dont think the 119s did. I dont really think one was anymore gloomy than the other. However, when the 119s were refurbed, the saloons were brightened up with cream panelling, and flourescent lighting, they did a nice job with them. Only a couple of 120s were refurbed, then no more were done, i saw a picture of one once, it seemed a more extensive refurb than on the 119s as they lowered the saloon ceilings.
The Inverness based 120's were refurbed, but never travelled on them in refurbed condition. What was interesting about the Inverness 120's was that some DMBC's were converted to DMBF. The brake van was enlarged by using the 2nd class saloon. This was due to the large amount of Fish traffic conveyed on the Aberdeen Inverness line.
 

peteb

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If I recall correctly the Swindon Cross Country 3 car DMUs had oval mirrors on solid bulkhead which were wood grain pattern and little lights under some of the luggage racks. The second class seats were a mid grey colour whereas the first class were very dark green and black check. This was BEFORE they were refurbished and most ended up with blue check pattern seats in second. The first class saloon behind the driver was gloomy probably as the seats all faced one way and did not always align with the windows, but the little 6 seat first class saloon adjacent to the doors was much brighter.
 

Sultan1056

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My longest journey on a dmu was Ayr to Preston, almost 200 miles. I was travelling on the 0120 Stranraer Harbour-Blackpool North (16/08/80) with 25142 & 27016. The train was declared a failure at Ayr and all passengers were transferred onto the dmu. I presume the unit worked backed to Stranraer on its return working.
 

WesternLancer

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If I recall correctly the Swindon Cross Country 3 car DMUs had oval mirrors on solid bulkhead which were wood grain pattern and little lights under some of the luggage racks. The second class seats were a mid grey colour whereas the first class were very dark green and black check. This was BEFORE they were refurbished and most ended up with blue check pattern seats in second. The first class saloon behind the driver was gloomy probably as the seats all faced one way and did not always align with the windows, but the little 6 seat first class saloon adjacent to the doors was much brighter.
Needless to say - a detailed interior description is here, inc pics, which adds nicely to your recollections.
 

30907

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I somewhat remember those Oxfords, but did they run via Reading rather than Didcot West curve and Swindon, then either via Trowbridge or Bristol TM ?
The train I refer to was booked via Reading 0655/0705 - I was somewhat surprised when I located it in the London area WTT, as like you I would have expected it to run via Bristol. The return was to Paddington at peak checking-out time.
I presume it was a Thames Valley commuter set, and those berthed at Oxford (they did summer Saturday trips West till the end of haulage); how it returned to Oxford I didn't check.
I imagine WR saw no point in running ECS to Paddington in the early hours, and frankly I doubt it carried many passengers from East of Taunton.
 

delt1c

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My longest journey on a dmu was Ayr to Preston, almost 200 miles. I was travelling on the 0120 Stranraer Harbour-Blackpool North (16/08/80) with 25142 & 27016. The train was declared a failure at Ayr and all passengers were transferred onto the dmu. I presume the unit worked backed to Stranraer on its return working.
Out of interest what was the unit class
 

peteb

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Needless to say - a detailed interior description is here, inc pics, which adds nicely to your recollections.
Very useful article. I can't recall green second class seats so maybe these were refurbished in the early 70s in grey? I travelled on one of these very regularly between 1976 and 1980.
 

WesternLancer

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Very useful article. I can't recall green second class seats so maybe these were refurbished in the early 70s in grey? I travelled on one of these very regularly between 1976 and 1980.

Could it have been 'Trojan' fabric that was v common in 70s? No doubt the original upholstery would have worn out by early 70s so likely to have been re-upholstered just as you say - selection of designs here (in case you want your sofa re-done!)
 

yorksrob

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I know Trojan has a grey base, but it's a bit colourful to be described as "grey" !
 

Sprinter107

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Could it have been 'Trojan' fabric that was v common in 70s? No doubt the original upholstery would have worn out by early 70s so likely to have been re-upholstered just as you say - selection of designs here (in case you want your sofa re-done!)
Yes, they did have trojan in second class in the 1970s
 

Journeyman

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I know Trojan has a grey base, but it's a bit colourful to be described as "grey" !

I'm really nostalgic about Trojan, thanks to SUBs and EPBs being the first trains I ever rode on. I want a Trojan sofa.
 

WesternLancer

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Trojan and Bournemouth Blue seemed to be everywhere in my youth!

The 1st time I went on a HST125 the new blue (or orange in 1st) fabrics seemed a radical departure. Does not look like Torrington are doing them yet.

Mind you, stepping on board the APT to find Bay City Rollers inspired tartan upholstery really was a wow moment....
 
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