• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Fatal accident on the DLR

Status
Not open for further replies.

Adlington

Member
Joined
3 Oct 2016
Messages
1,039
The Evening News writes (undated, but AFAIK published on Wednesday 19 June pm):

Flora Shen, 36, a director at Barclays Investment Bank, was standing alone at Limehouse station when she appeared to trip and fall off the edge of the platform, just as a train was approaching the stop.

A DLR passenger witnessed Ms Shen’s plunge but could not find a way to stop the train before she was struck, while another person on the platform dashed for the emergency button but did not get there in time, an inquest at Southwark coroner’s court heard

The article continues:
For a passenger to raise the alarm they must activate one of the alarms at the train doors, and the assistant has to unlock the emergency telephone, understand the danger, lock the telephone up again, and use another key to get to the emergency brake before the train can be stopped.
Is the emergency stopping procedure really so complicated, and therefore slow?

And another question: why this accident isn't listed on the RAIB site?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
And another question: why this accident isn't listed on the RAIB site?
RAIB normally doesn't put anything on their site until they've done a preliminary investigation and decided whether to do a report or a Safety Digest. This typically takes a couple of weeks.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,771
RAIB normally doesn't put anything on their site until they've done a preliminary investigation and decided whether to do a report or a Safety Digest. This typically takes a couple of weeks.
The incident was on 6th January, as per the article. The description of the process is from the Coroner's report.
 

bengley

Established Member
Joined
18 May 2008
Messages
1,840
Dare I say that if the train was operated by a driver, this probably wouldn't have happened. Not good.
 

Adlington

Member
Joined
3 Oct 2016
Messages
1,039
Or if an emergency brake was simpler to operate (assuming the Evening News report is correct).
 

John Webb

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2010
Messages
3,048
Location
St Albans
There appears to be no mention of this incident on the RAIB website even as a news item. Either they may not have been told about it (that happens!) or they have been waiting for the inquest to take place, which they sometimes do when there has been a fatality.
 

Trackman

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2013
Messages
2,922
Location
Lewisham
The article continues:Is the emergency stopping procedure really so complicated, and therefore slow?
The way see it if they are not at the EDP (driving console):
Emergency light on door control panel with audible alarm.
PSA goes to nearest EDP, arms desk with key making emergency plunger active and picks up phone (the phone and the plunger are all in the driving console).
I don't understand the other key business to activate the emergency plunger, the key for the PSA control panel is different than the driving console and that is all I can think of.
Maybe a PSA can enlighten us?
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I wonder if this could lead to the installation of platform edge doors? Half height ones would do to stop an incident like this.

That said, I'm surprised the units don't have a true emergency brake, i.e. stop first, ask questions later, as well as platform stop plungers as some Tube lines have.
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,019
The DLR has operated for over 30 years like this, and hardly has the experience of the Underground, where such incidents are sadly an almost weekly event.

There is a certain type of fatality which the RAIB do not do reports on.

The last RAIB report on the DLR was notably the opposite, the departure incident at Bank where the operator was at the front console, whereas if they had been at the door position instead it was unlikely to have happened.
 

rebmcr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
3,845
Location
St Neots
I wonder if this could lead to the installation of platform edge doors? Half height ones would do to stop an incident like this.

That said, I'm surprised the units don't have a true emergency brake, i.e. stop first, ask questions later, as well as platform stop plungers as some Tube lines have.

There are platform buttons, though it's unclear what their exact effect is.
 

NotATrainspott

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2013
Messages
3,223
On the Nuremberg U-Bahn lines fitted with UTO, there are obstacle detectors at platforms which should stop trains coming in if someone or something big has fallen onto the tracks.

With the new single-train rolling stock it'll be easier to justify the cost of PEDs as the door arrangement will be in its final evolution. With PEDs you're pretty much stuck with one type of door arrangement for the rest of time, unless you are willing to remove the PEDs completely before switching to a different type of rolling stock.
 

Ploughman

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2010
Messages
2,882
Location
Near where the 3 ridings meet
I wonder if this could lead to the installation of platform edge doors? Half height ones would do to stop an incident like this.

That said, I'm surprised the units don't have a true emergency brake, i.e. stop first, ask questions later, as well as platform stop plungers as some Tube lines have.

Would Half height Platform edge doors stop someone falling over them?
It may make the situation worse for someone who cannot see very clearly or for someone who is wandering about on their mobile especially while waiting for a train.
 

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
2,809
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
There is a certain type of fatality which the RAIB do not do reports on.
Indeed, and it doesn't appear to be clear from the 'Preventing Future Deaths' report by the coroner if he considers this incident is in that particular category. I can't seem to find any online record of the coroners verdict though it may be that the coroner has not yet reached a verdict.
 

ijmad

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2016
Messages
1,810
Location
UK
I wonder if this could lead to the installation of platform edge doors? Half height ones would do to stop an incident like this.

That said, I'm surprised the units don't have a true emergency brake, i.e. stop first, ask questions later, as well as platform stop plungers as some Tube lines have.

No doubt, although the new CAF stock will have an entirely different carriage and door arrangement. Fixed formation, 5 cars, 13 doors per side (2+3+3+3+2) vs the B07/09s which are articulated single cars run in twos or threes with 4 doors per car.

Unless they spend billions replacing them we'll be stuck with mixed door configurations for the next decade or so and thus PEDs would likely be impossible.

Obstacle detectors do seem like a good idea.
 
Last edited:

stuu

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2011
Messages
2,729
Would Half height Platform edge doors stop someone falling over them?
It may make the situation worse for someone who cannot see very clearly or for someone who is wandering about on their mobile especially while waiting for a train.
They are usually at least 4 ft high, you would have to do something spectacular to fall over one accidentally
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
I seem to recall one case where RAIB held back publishing anything until the inquest result. Regardless of the cause there may be something worth investigating around the apparent difficulty of stopping the train quickly.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The coroner certainty seems to be of that opinion.

I'd be inclined to agree. I've never looked, but I did sort of assume (yeah, I know, makes an ass of u and me) that there would be emergency stop plungers on the platform and that the passcom on board would be of the "stop now, ask questions later" type.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,624
Location
Another planet...
Dare I say that if the train was operated by a driver, this probably wouldn't have happened. Not good.
Surely that depends on how much time there was between the person falling and the train arriving. AIUI the DLR stock doesn't have magnetic brakes as found on trams, so wouldn't be able to stop on a sixpence.

Making an emergency stop procedure "simpler" is also a balance. As tragic and horrific as this incident was, it is a fairly rare combination of coincidental circumstances that led to it. Big red emergency stop buttons at every other seat would potentially be a boon to those wishing to cause disruption through anti-social behaviour.

My deepest sympathy to the friends and family of the woman, and of course to those who witnessed this tragic accident and had to deal with the aftermath.
 

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
2,809
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
I'd also add that, unlike a lot of other rail based public transport, DLR offers passengers a view forwards which in circumstances such as this means that they get to see that which normally only train drivers see. A lot of other rail based public transport doesn't have a forward view so passengers won't see an impending incident.

Not wishing to be insensitive but if that view wasn't available then passengers would be spared the traumatic view. However of itself I don't consider that a valid reason for removal of the view from passengers, not to mention the expense involved in modifying the trains.
 

357

Established Member
Joined
12 Nov 2018
Messages
1,353
Logic would say that the passengers at the front are the best placed to see an emergency situation anywhere on the train - so I think installing a PEA at the front is not too much to ask.

Around 15 years ago I was on a DLR train that had the PEA activated, and I am sure the train stopped... I know for sure they stop when they no longer have interlock (unlike LUL trains that simply can't take power)
 

Inthewest

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2020
Messages
93
Location
The West
Making an emergency stop procedure "simpler" is also a balance. As tragic and horrific as this incident was, it is a fairly rare combination of coincidental circumstances that led to it. Big red emergency stop buttons at every other seat would potentially be a boon to those wishing to cause disruption through anti-social behaviour.
And this is it.
A series of unfortunate events that is so rare it's only happened once does not warrant spending millions on safety. Sounds cold but that's just the way it is.
It's like English Heritage. Listed status trumps health and safety.

I'd also add that, unlike a lot of other rail based public transport, DLR offers passengers a view forwards which in circumstances such as this means that they get to see that which normally only train drivers see. A lot of other rail based public transport doesn't have a forward view so passengers won't see an impending incident.
Although the passengers have a choice to watch...
It's not forced upon them. Curiosity drives this - much like people rubber necking on motorways - and yet then people say they should have been protected from seeing such events.
 

gsnedders

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2015
Messages
1,472
Logic would say that the passengers at the front are the best placed to see an emergency situation anywhere on the train - so I think installing a PEA at the front is not too much to ask.
This honestly has always been the biggest surprise to me: the lack of one at the front. Obviously positioning might be slightly tricky (you have the door, the cab, and the equipment box variously there), but it seems like such an obvious place to put one.

That said, in reality, I expect someone falling directly in front of the train will always be a hard case: I wonder how quickly a passenger would press it on average from someone falling in front of the train.

No doubt, although the new CAF stock will have an entirely different carriage and door arrangement. Fixed formation, 5 cars, 13 doors per side (2+3+3+3+2) vs the B07/09s which are articulated single cars run in twos or threes with 4 doors per car.

Unless they spend billions replacing them we'll be stuck with mixed door configurations for the next decade or so and thus PEDs would likely be impossible.

Obstacle detectors do seem like a good idea.
There's plenty of places around the Tokyo area where you have PEDs and mixed-stock: you simply provide PEDs for all train formations, and open the appropriate PEDs for the stock in the station. This would likely imply standardising the B07/09 stopping positions so that four/six car formations stop appropriately (i.e., a four-car would stop either at the same place or 1/3rd back). For some of the busier stations (Shadwell? Bank?) I'm honestly surprised there are PEDs: they're certainly very, very crowded in the peaks (and Bank is often bad partly due to people waiting by where the doors are open if it's the wrong destination!).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top