What incentive is there to go by train?

[saintmatthew]

Many people, commuters or leisure-travellers, find the railway unreliable, uncomfortable, expensive, slow, plagued by delays and cancellations, and overall just an unpleasant experience. What is the incentive to travel by rail?

 

[py_megapixel]

Cheaper when you factor in the running costs of a car
Sometimes faster for long journeys
Difficulty of finding parking close to destination
Can work on the train
Can get up and walk around/go to the toilet/grab refreshments from the buffet
Better for the environment
The novelty of a train journey, even for non-enthusiasts

 

[yorksrob]

I can get further than by walking, and it's more reliable/comfortable than the bus for longer journeys.

 

[bramling]

Many people, commuters or leisure-travellers, find the railway unreliable, expensive, slow, plagued by delays and cancellations, and overall just an unpleasant experience. What is the incentive to travel by rail?

For me an incentive is to save car miles, which in turn saves wear and tear, which in turn saves the bother of having a greater maintenance burden on the cars.

However, this has to be balanced by comfort, and I preferred the emptier trains of the 1990s, which gave a bigger incentive. Nowadays car is the natural choice for certain journeys which would have been a good shout for the train in those days.

 

[telstarbox]

If I drove to work it would take twice as long as the train, and I'd need to pay at least £33 / day for parking and the Congestion Charge. That is what the train costs for a whole week.

 

[SiggysigAah]

Quicker, can eat, drink or work on the train. No car parking, speeding, bus lane tickets if you are travelling somewhere congested that you are unfamiliar with. No congestion charge or ULEZ to pay. Book in advance and the cost is usually very reasonable compared to driving and parking.

 

[Stampy]

For me, the chance to get to football games - and a chance to catch “40 winks“ on the way (especially if I’ve just finished an 8-hour shift).

You can’t do THAT in a car very easily....

 

[saintmatthew]

For me, the chance to get to football games - and a chance to catch “40 winks“ on the way (especially if I’ve just finished an 8-hour shift).

Watch this from 12:18:

 

[Dr Hoo]

Many people, commuters or leisure-travellers, find other modes than rail unreliable, uncomfortable, expensive, slow, plagued by delays and cancellations, and overall just an unpleasant experience.
Most travel is actually a ‘derived demand’ or even a ‘distress purchase’ and rail is a lot better in many (but by no means all) cases.

 

[yorksrob]

As long as I have a seat and a window view, I find the actual process of travelling by train quite pleasurable most of the time.

 

[saintmatthew]

As long as I have a seat and a window view, I find the actual process of travelling by train quite pleasurable most of the time.

Not what most people get though, is it?

 

[GoneSouth]

For me the incentive is that it’s the only option available to me as I don’t drive.

I make plenty of long distance rail journeys which I would definitely drive if the option was available to me. It’s the expense when there are several family members travelling together that’s s the killer for me, plus the services are run for the convenience of the operator and definitely not the passenger. Take the XC Penzance services which arrive late in the evening for operational convenience. Tourists don’t want to be searching around for hotels and food at 2230 when they arrive!

But the question was what’s the incentive, so here goes. When alone and I can choose to travel off peak, a few hours of me time with a good book or a Netflix movie is invaluable. This is definitely a relaxing way to travel, especially with some decent food and a coffee or a G&T.

There are however more disincentives than incentive.

 

[Llandudno]

Chance to catch up with friends and family all over the country and have a few beers with them and not have to worry about driving home!

 

[Cheshire Rover]

One of the reasons I packed in my last job in Manchester was the commute. Not the only reason but the packed trains, increasing costs and unreliable service over a 9 year period eventually got to me. The incentive to use rail was not having to drive on some of the most congested motorways in the country.

That said I would never drive to the likes of London as the West Coast service is generally very good.
It's horses for courses really. If you can travel outside the peak, with reserved seats and you are not in a rush then the trains can be excellent. You could get some good deals on Virgin in 1st. Being stuck on a Northern c150 in the winter surrounded by sniffling and sneezing commuters that was late arriving and is now going to be terminated short leaving you a long walk in the rain doesn't have the same appeal.

 

[yorksrob]

Not what most people get though, is it?

I can't really speak for most people.

I suppose it depends on when they travel and what for. My old commute could be a right pain because it was sometimes too crowded, but even that depended on what train I caught.

Generally for non-work travel I attempt to actively avoid busy trains.

 

[WelshBluebird]

1. I don't own a car so I'd have the expense associated with that.
2. I don't have a parking space where I live, and living pretty much in the city centre, residents parking spots on the street are limited and you are not guaranteed to be able to park anywhere near where you actually live.
3. If I am travelling larger distances, its usually for gigs or football matches, where I often drink, so obviously wouldn't want to be driving to and from those!

 

[Jamesrob637]

One of the reasons I packed in my last job in Manchester was the commute. Not the only reason but the packed trains, increasing costs and unreliable service over a 9 year period eventually got to me. The incentive to use rail was not having to drive on some of the most congested motorways in the country.

That said I would never drive to the likes of London as the West Coast service is generally very good.
It's horses for courses really. If you can travel outside the peak, with reserved seats and you are not in a rush then the trains can be excellent. You could get some good deals on Virgin in 1st. Being stuck on a Northern c150 in the winter surrounded by sniffling and sneezing commuters that was late arriving and is now going to be terminated short leaving you a long walk in the rain doesn't have the same appeal.

Moving forward I'd like to use trains 2x a week for commuting (I'm 10min away from Manchester) or every other week. Couldn't put up with it every day now. Using trains every day for work blunts/borderline removes the appeal of using them for leisure, as I'm sure you'll no doubt have experienced. Were you commuting from Helsby every day or did you live closer to MAN at the time? Helsby is a fair way - like western Surrey/eastern Hampshire or St Albans/Hitchin to London I think!

 

[6Gman]

Many people, commuters or leisure-travellers, find the railway unreliable, uncomfortable, expensive, slow, plagued by delays and cancellations, and overall just an unpleasant experience. What is the incentive to travel by rail?

And many people - myself included - find the railway reliable, comfortable, reasonable in cost, quick, rarely affected by delays or cancellations and overall a pleasant experience.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Much prefer letting the train taking the strain rather than beetling down the motorway in drizzle/heavy rain/fog.

 

[DB]

And many people - myself included - find the railway reliable, comfortable, reasonable in cost, quick, rarely affected by delays or cancellations and overall a pleasant experience.

You don't reguarly use Northern, I take it...

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Moving forward I'd like to use trains 2x a week for commuting (I'm 10min away from Manchester) or every other week. Couldn't put up with it every day now. Using trains every day for work blunts/borderline removes the appeal of using them for leisure, as I'm sure you'll no doubt have experienced. Were you commuting from Helsby every day or did you live closer to MAN at the time? Helsby is a fair way - like western Surrey/eastern Hampshire or St Albans/Hitchin to London I think!

It was Helsby to Manchester every day for 5 years then I changed roles in the same company and started to cover the whole UK, so it became a mix of commuting to Manchester a couple of days a week and flying/driving/train all over the UK. You soon get sick of travelling so much.

 

[DB]

Using trains every day for work blunts/borderline removes the appeal of using them for leisure, as I'm sure you'll no doubt have experienced.

That's certainly true!

 

[thenorthern]

It's normally cheaper, it's often faster and more convenient. Also there are other nice things like someone else is doing the driving so you can work on board.

Compared to driving and flying the comparisons are often misleading. While fuel costs are sometimes cheaper than train tickets it doesn't normally take into account things like congestion charges, parking, insurance and maintenance. Also while delays are frustrating very few people take into account delays from being "stuck in traffic" when comparing it to trains. Also compared to flying while end to end journey times are normally quicker people forget to take into account the time taken to get to and from an airport, airport security and having to wait in a departures lounge.

Also I know it's a sensitive subject but since Privatisation the rail companies have been trying to "Get your money". While to some this may sound like they are big faceless corporations in reality it means they will have shareholders wanting to make a return on investment. To do that rail companies know they have to make passengers happy so that passengers will choose to use the train over other forms of transport and that way no only will people use the train but they may encourage others to via word of mouth. More seats, better reliability and better services do that. The effect of this is visible in that passenger numbers have nearly trebled since privatisation and more people than ever in history are using the train.

 

[DB]

Also I know it's a sensitive subject but since Privatisation the rail companies have been trying to "Get your money". While to some this may sound like they are big faceless corporations in reality it means they will have shareholders wanting to make a return on investment. To do that rail companies know they have to make passengers happy so that passengers will choose to use the train over other forms of transport and that way no only will people use the train but they may encourage others to via word of mouth. More seats, better reliability and better services do that. The effect of this is visible in that passenger numbers have nearly trebled since privatisation and more people than ever in history are using the train.

That mostly applies to leisure travel. A lot of commuters (into London especially, but also other large cities to an extent) don't have any other practical option as driving into the centre of London isn't viable for most. They don't do it because they want to (don't think many people would regard a packed commuter train as a pleasant experience).

The increase in passengers needs to be viewed in terms of overall journeys made - the past couple of decades have seen an increase by all modes and rail still has, overall, a very small share. There has not been a mass movement away from other modes and towards rail.

 

[nlogax]

Many people, commuters or leisure-travellers, find the railway unreliable, uncomfortable, expensive, slow, plagued by delays and cancellations, and overall just an unpleasant experience. What is the incentive to travel by rail?

Quite the opposite. For most of the journeys I take by rail my experience is positive.
- Reliable
- Comfortable enough for the 15-20 minutes to Waterloo (seriously, who cares about 15 mins?), and certainly fine on Avanti end to end runs
- The same distance is a lot slower by bus and Uber, and in the latter's case far more expensive
- It's a nice way to spend some time staring out the window either at the urban scenes or the countryside whizzing by. All while someone else is doing the driving. And it's a nicer end to end experience than having to faff with getting to and from airports.

Caveats.. my local TOC is SWR so there's a ton of trains every hour. Avanti's my intercity TOC of choice and there's always loads to look at on the WCML. If I lived somewhere served by Northern then my responses would likely be entirely different.

 

[Starmill]

It's rare in the UK. Despite the outlook of enthusiasts, most people here use trains either never or infrequently.

People for whom it does work out almost always fall into one of two categories:

- Commuters within London and the South East, whose road journeys would have been appalling

- Long distance passengers travelling on a direct intercity train between major railheads, with a car journey and station car park at one end and often a taxi at the other. Principally this is wealthy people

Commuting into other cities makes up a remarkably small proportion because they have such a low market share, rural journeys or journeys between towns on trains barely register. So to sum up the question: not actually much.

 

[Starmill]

Compared to driving and flying the comparisons are often misleading. While fuel costs are sometimes cheaper than train tickets it doesn't normally take into account things like congestion charges, parking, insurance and maintenance.

That's because a significant proportion of the costs of taking your vehicle for servicing, MOT testing and insurance is actually fixed. So is the depreciation broadly.

If you've already got a car, you only need to calculate the variable cost of driving. I agree however that the majority of people are poor indeed at doing this, and include the cost of only fuel. Higher fuel duties are therefore remarkably effective for encouraging long-distance rail travel, because it makes people think the price of driving is rising a little bit more than it really is.

To do that rail companies know they have to make passengers happy

I don't think this is an effective incentive whatsoever.

 

[route101]

I use train for mostly leisure, prefer train to bus , with more space and ability to eat and drink.Prefered option Glasgow to London. I tried the megabus to London, false economy , wedged in my seat. Can see how some people want the cheapest option A and B.

I can drive but dont have the money out of nowhere to buy a car.

 

[Jamesrob637]

It was Helsby to Manchester every day for 5 years then I changed roles in the same company and started to cover the whole UK, so it became a mix of commuting to Manchester a couple of days a week and flying/driving/train all over the UK. You soon get sick of travelling so much.

Quite. I nearly took a job which involved travelling a little more than "the odd couple of days."

I don't regret my decision. Happy to be away with work a few weeks per year but no more

 

[M!T]

Depends on the circumstances.

If I want to get to Leeds on a weekend it's a 44 minute round trip on the train and a £6.20 return ticket.
In the car it's a two to three hour round trip and £15+ in petrol and parking charges.

If I worked in Leeds a season ticket would be £1,104 and, again, a 44 minute round commute each day. That's £4.80 return each day assuming a 46 weeks working five days per week, and I'd have any travel I want on a weekend too at no further cost.
In the car it would be a good two to four hours round trip per day (depending on traffic), at least £2,400 a year in petrol and I dread to think how much in parking.

When I walked up Pen-y-Ghent last year I took the train to Horton-in-Ribblesdale. The cost of the ticket was about the same as the petrol and parking would have been in the car and the journey time about the same, so I took the train.

On the other hand...

If I fancy a break in Cornwall the rail fare is eyewateringly expensive compared with the petrol cost of going by car and the journey time is about comparable. Also, the cost by rail is multiplied by the number of passengers whereas the increase in fuel consumption in the car caused by adding the weight of more passengers is negligible. I'd still prefer to go by train though as a particularly love the portion of the journey from Exeter to Penzance. I might not have the choice though!

I know that railway bashing is pretty much a national sport in the UK but, ultimately, it's horses for courses and making a choice on its own merits.