Temporary Closure for Rose Hill Marple

[43094]

Rose Hill services apparently to be stopped from September to December....

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Rose Hill services apparently to be stopped from September to December....

Let's just unofficially close a station for 4 months without going through the closure procedure then...

 

[Trackman]

Let's just unofficially close a station for 4 months without going through the closure procedure then...

Just read about it, it's 5 stations in total.
No mention of RRB's, but Farfield will definitely not be having RRB's so I guess the rest too.

 

[Starmill]

Northern have proposed that among a number of other changes, Rose Hill Marple services will be withdrawn in September until the December timetable change to allow them to support the restart of crew training.

Northern advise passengers from Rose Hill Marple to use Marple and passengers from Woodley to use Bredbury. Hyde Central and Hyde North stations would be unserved, but I don't know where Northern advise using for these stations. At a guess it would be Flowery Field. Longer trains will be provided on Manchester to New Mills Central services.

No date was provided, but it seems likely that the last date for the operation of their current 'Key Worker' timetable will be Saturday 12 September. The Principal Change Date is Sunday 13 December 2020, if services are restored then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow, this doesn't seem reasonable without replacement buses being in place. I suppose if you are the Government you can't breach your franchise agreement...

 

[py_megapixel]

Could Newton for Hyde be used instead of Hyde Ctl or Hyde North? I don't know, I'm really not familiar with that line.

I bet Northern just randomly withdrawing a commuter service is going to do wonders for their reputation...

 

[JonathanH]

Wow, this doesn't seem reasonable without replacement buses being in place. I suppose if you are the Government you can't breach your franchise agreement...

Services have been withdrawn on other lightly used routes elsewhere for crew training in the past - Ascot to Guildford was withdrawn for training on class 450s many years ago. It is just a case of agreeing with the DfT that crew training takes precedence over providing a lightly used service.

BBC NEWS | England | Berkshire | Services cancelled while drivers train

 

[Bletchleyite]

I bet Northern just randomly withdrawing a commuter service is going to do wonders for their reputation...

It will just take one disabled person who is disadvantaged to make them look very stupid (the road down to the station called Marple[1] is very steep so some wheelchair users will find it difficult). Why no RRB? Coaches, even accessible ones, must be ten a penny at the moment.

[1] For some reason, the station called "Rose Hill" is in the village of Marple, and the station called "Marple" is in the village of Marple Bridge.

 

[Starmill]

Could Newton for Hyde be used instead of Hyde Ctl or Hyde North? I don't know, I'm really not familiar with that line.

Yes, both Flowery Field and Newton for Hyde are nearby Hyde North and Hyde Central, though Newton for Hyde is further. One assumes tickets will be accepted.

 

[Starmill]

Services have been withdrawn on other lightly used routes elsewhere for crew training in the past - Ascot to Guildford was withdrawn for training on class 450s many years ago. It is just a case of agreeing with the DfT that crew training takes precedence over providing a lightly used service.

BBC NEWS | England | Berkshire | Services cancelled while drivers train

Indeed, it's not entirely without precedent, although that doesn't determine the rights and wrongs of this specific decision. As in that case, Northern say this is mainly a question of training for drivers.

 

[Glenn1969]

Are these changes on Northern's website yet?

 

[py_megapixel]

It will just take one disabled person who is disadvantaged to make them look very stupid. Why no RRB? Coaches, even accessible ones, must be ten a penny at the moment.

I suspect someone's done a calculation that paying for a taxi for anyone who complains (and that's not just the disabled, there will be people with season tickets too) is going to work out cheaper than RRBs on all services.

Personally I'd at least want to be running a shuttle between Rose Hill and Romiley. I hear that many people change at Romiley anyway to get a faster journey into Manchester. I'd probably also divert the hourly New Mills service via Hyde while keeping the Sheffield via Bredbury so that as many stations as possible get a service, even if it's not a great one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect someone's done a calculation that paying for a taxi for anyone who complains (and that's not just the disabled, there will be people with season tickets too) is going to work out cheaper than RRBs on all services.

Personally I'd at least want to be running a shuttle between Rose Hill and Romiley. I hear that many people change at Romiley anyway to get a faster journey into Manchester. I'd probably also divert the hourly New Mills service via Hyde while keeping the Sheffield via Bredbury so that as many stations as possible get a service, even if it's not a great one.

I would suggest a RRB or even accessible taxi shuttling between Rose Hill and Romiley plus one of the New Mills services running via Hyde would be better than what they have proposed.

 

[py_megapixel]

@Starmill do you happen to have a link to where NT have announced these timetable changes? I think it would be interesting to read. I'd also like to see what else they're doing

 

[Starmill]

It will just take one disabled person who is disadvantaged to make them look very stupid (the road down to the station called Marple[1] is very steep so some wheelchair users will find it difficult). Why no RRB? Coaches, even accessible ones, must be ten a penny at the moment.

[1] For some reason, the station called "Rose Hill" is in the village of Marple, and the station called "Marple" is in the village of Marple Bridge.

I would imagine that an accessibility replacement service would be provided, even if full-time bus service isn't? The service can take people to stations with best local accessibility, doesn't have to be the nearest alternative.

 

[py_megapixel]

I would suggest a RRB or even accessible taxi shuttling between Rose Hill and Romiley plus one of the New Mills services running via Hyde would be better than what they have proposed.

That's exactly what I was thinking, yes.

 

[Starmill]

@Starmill do you happen to have a link to where NT have announced these timetable changes? I think it would be interesting to read. I'd also like to see what else they're doing

There doesn't seem to be anything on their website so I don't know I'm afraid. The source is a letter sent from a Regional Director at Northern to the office of the MP for Hazel Grove, William Wragg. Wragg used the word 'unacceptable' to describe what Northern's letter said.

 

[Trackman]

There doesn't seem to be anything on their website so I don't know I'm afraid. The source is a letter sent from a Regional Director at Northern to the office of the MP for Hazel Grove, William Wragg. Wragg used the word 'unacceptable' to describe what Northern's letter said.

I've got a copy of a letter from Chris Jackson to Andrew Gywnne MP which has been posted several FB groups, ok to post here?

 

[Starmill]

I've got a copy of a letter from Chris Jackson to Andrew Gywnne MP which has been posted several FB groups, ok to post here?

If copies of the letters have made it into the public domain then sure, although they are probably in an inaccessible image format which wouldn't comply with the Forum Rules in their original form?

 

[Glenn1969]

I looked up 14th and 16th Sept at Rose Hill on RTT. Only the 1039 arrival from Piccadilly is still on RTT for these dates

 

[Starmill]

I would suggest a RRB or even accessible taxi shuttling between Rose Hill and Romiley plus one of the New Mills services running via Hyde would be better than what they have proposed.

Or simply an on-demand accessible service, as provided regularly e.g. at a station where the lift breaks down.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I looked up 14th and 16th Sept at Rose Hill on RTT. Only the 1039 arrival from Piccadilly is still on RTT for these dates

Is that because they've removed things from the long-term timetable or have they actually added cancellations into STP?

 

[Starmill]

Is that because they've removed things from the long-term timetable or have they actually added cancellations into STP?

Many trains have simply vanished from the open data WTT, not just Rose Hill Marple services, it is true. Unless Northern have now published a May 2020 PDF I fear we are in danger of losing track it completely.

 

[geoffk]

Could the two-hourly New Mills Central - Piccadilly via Bredbury service be diverted via Woodley?
Could the Glossop trains call at Fairfield?
That would just leave Rose Hill without a service.
Has TfGM agreed this change?

Staff training is given as the reason - both of new drivers to replace those leaving/retiring and to release those still to be trained on new types of stock. Clearly this training is not compatible with social distancing so how is Northern going to restart it? And are other TOCs in a similar position?

I read that DfT advised all franchised operators that a full service timetable was to be reintroduced from July 6, but clearly not so in the case of Northern.

 

[py_megapixel]

I read that DfT advised all franchised operators that a full service timetable was to be reintroduced from July 6, but clearly not so in the case of Northern.

I don't believe Northern is technically a franchised operator anymore.

 

[Starmill]

Could the two-hourly New Mills Central - Piccadilly via Bredbury service be diverted via Woodley?

I imagine this would be deeply problematic because this would cut service from far busier stations such as Reddish North.

Could the Glossop trains call at Fairfield?

I would be extremely disappointed if this change wasn't made, but I also wouldn't be surprised. Normally the 0707 from Manchester Piccadilly via Glossop calls at Fairfield. Of course, this service may not be in itself operating. It has vanished entirely / not yet been uploaded from September.

 

[py_megapixel]

I imagine this would be deeply problematic because this would cut service from far busier stations such as Reddish North.

Run a service through Reddish South instead

 

[Ianno87]

Ticket acceptance on the 375 and 383/384 buses between Rose Hill and Marple (presumably fully accessible) would strike me as a more reasonable alternative than funding an RRB or taxi to carry maybe one or two passengers an hour.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

This all sounds a bit like when Northern ( or their predecessors) withdrew services to Wedgewood and Barlaston "temporarily". 15 years later there's still no service!

 

[Ianno87]

This all sounds a bit like when Northern ( or their predecessors) withdrew services to Wedgewood and Barlaston "temporarily". 15 years later there's still no service!

That would be Central Trains, not Northern