Face coverings to become mandatory in shops in England (includes poll)

[Bishopstone]

They shoot themselves in the foot in including banks and post offices, because they then state in paragraph 6 of the Schedule that any premises providing financial services is exempt from being a relevant place. No doubt most such businesses will still be applying a mask mandate policy to avoid the wrath of the masktivists.

They will apply a mask policy for the protection of key worker colleagues, who don’t want to be sneezed over by mask refuseniks whilst cancelling a direct debit.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'd be extremely surprised if it's reviewed, let alone changed, before then. This is the "New Normal", folks. Isn't it just wonderful.

I've got a meme for this. I can't share it because it has a swear word on it, but picture Samuel Jackson in his role as Jules Winfield in Pulp Fiction getting annoyed because someone has said "social distancing" again...

 

[MikeWM]

The Regulations expire after 12 months, and are only subject to review after six months. We're in for this one on the long run folks...

I could have written those regulations for them last week. Remind me why they weren't published until less than 12 hours before they come into effect? With the usual disclaimer:

In accordance with section 45R of that Act the Secretary of State is of the opinion that, by reason of urgency, it is necessary to make this instrument without a draft having been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.

even though Parliament was sitting last week and this.

Welcome to the 'new normal' democracy. Otherwise known as rule by executive fiat (or dictatorship, to be less polite).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

They will apply a mask policy for the protection of key worker colleagues, who don’t want to be sneezed over by mask refuseniks whilst cancelling a direct debit.

Didn't realise that required a trip to the bank. There's not many things that still do.

 

[duncanp]

.....Of course it's ludicrous how it's supposedly necessary to enforce masks in shops, but not in a theatre or cinema, where you're sitting near to random strangers for possibly hours on end.....

It has also been shown that shouting or laughing can increase the spread of COVID-19, so when the pantomime season comes round, there will be no shouting "He's behind you!", "Oh no it isn't!", "Oh yes it is!" and absolutely no laughing whatsoever under any circumstances at any of the jokes.

Maybe we should start a COVID-19 Compliant Jokes thread with loads of dreadful jokes in it that no-one could possibly conceive of laughing at, suitable for use in a COVID-19 compliant pantomime.

 

[Richard Scott]

Just been shopping, staff commented shops are very busy today and a number of people out before mandatory mask wearing tomorrow. Also noticed all these masks are made in China, why would I be surprised, so wonder who's benefitting there! Certainly not our economy. Also went on into Sainsbury's, not been in for ages and when you exit they put you straight into the road around the carpark so probably more risk of being run over than catching the virus from spending a second or two passing someone within 2m. Ridiculous!

 

[NorthOxonian]

It's not great, but there's still the minor issue of a nasty disease scampering around in the background.

The problem is the variation between different areas - in some areas the disease is very much in the foreground, and in others it isn't even there! You've got incredibly low rates of infection in large parts of England - the North East, or the South West for example. How does forcing everyone to wear a mask help in places like that?

In certain areas where cases are fairly high, such as West Yorkshire, Lancashire, Leicestershire, and a few other counties, mandatory masks make sense. But applying a uniform policy when we're seeing huge variations between regions seems absurd.

 

[jtuk]

Didn't realise that required a trip to the bank. There's not many things that still do.

People still bank in branches?

 

[Bletchleyite]

People still bank in branches?

<Scotty>A bank branch? How quaint!</Scotty>

 

[adc82140]

The problem is the variation between different areas - in some areas the disease is very much in the foreground, and in others it isn't even there! You've got incredibly low rates of infection in large parts of England - the North East, or the South West for example. How does forcing everyone to wear a mask help in places like that?

In certain areas where cases are fairly high, such as West Yorkshire, Lancashire, Leicestershire, and a few other counties, mandatory masks make sense. But applying a uniform policy when we're seeing huge variations between regions seems absurd.

Really the mandatory masks should be a measure reserved for areas where cases are of concern, as part of a phased local lockdown. I think 100% it should be compulsory in Leicester, but what' s the point in Plymouth, for example.

Incidentally, now only 21 patients in hospital in the south west, and none on ventilators.

 

[Journeyman]

People still bank in branches?

Yes, they do, actually.

 

[bramling]

The Corona-Nemesis channel, sorry BBC News are just starting to report on their daily live feed that the PM does not expect the Wanna-Vigilanties to be texting in each and every possible mask-crime. There's going to be some really disappointed people out there....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-53509270

BJ is so out of touch with reality it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious. Does he not realise people are already doing exactly that in other settings?

 

[Bantamzen]

BJ is so out of touch with reality it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious. Does he not realise people are already doing exactly that in other settings?

I know, but give him a chance, he's a little slow on the uptake. For example he still thinks no-deal Brexit is a good idea, so he will be nowhere near realising that the army of failed HR wanna-bes are massing to report every single violation of their interpretations of the laws & rules.....

Seriously though, what he should be doing is saying because there are valid exemptions the public should not be wasting the precious time of the Police in reporting what they might think is a "crime", but persistent time wasters will dealt with as would any other person abusing the emergency services and face possible prosecution.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The problem is the variation between different areas - in some areas the disease is very much in the foreground, and in others it isn't even there! You've got incredibly low rates of infection in large parts of England - the North East, or the South West for example. How does forcing everyone to wear a mask help in places like that?

In certain areas where cases are fairly high, such as West Yorkshire, Lancashire, Leicestershire, and a few other counties, mandatory masks make sense. But applying a uniform policy when we're seeing huge variations between regions seems absurd.

Indeed, it's totally at odds with the suggestion earlier this month that further measures would only be done on a local basis, based on the fact that the disease is now primarily a localised health issue.

 

[bramling]

I know, but give him a chance, he's a little slow on the uptake. For example he still thinks no-deal Brexit is a good idea, so he will be nowhere near realising that the army of failed HR wanna-bes are massing to report every single violation of their interpretations of the laws & rules.....

Seriously though, what he should be doing is saying because there are valid exemptions the public should not be wasting the precious time of the Police in reporting what they might think is a "crime", but persistent time wasters will dealt with as would any other person abusing the emergency services and face possible prosecution.

Yes the latter is precisely the message which should be going out. It’s utterly wrong to effectively encourage vigilantism and shaming in shops and other public places.

Personally I think BJ is now on a massive damage-limiting exercise. He knows he is severely scarred by all this, with more almost certain to come, and it’s now a case of trying to secure the least-worst judgement that history will give. So lurching to anything is worth a shot on the basis that “I tried it”. This loose-canon behaviour would also tie in with the very obvious discontent exhibited by the scientists over the last few weeks.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just back from my local Morrisons where I can judge what real people (away from the pro mask fanatics on twitter) actually think of masks. Only about 1 in 10 wearing them and this is the day before they become compulsory! That says it all to me as to what real people actually think of them.

 

[DB]

Just back from my local Morrisons where I can judge what real people (away from the pro mask fanatics on twitter) actually think of masks. Only about 1 in 10 wearing them and this is the day before they become compulsory! That says it all to me as to what real people actually think of them.

Same in Tesco yesterday - although I think it was probably less than 1 in 10! Didn't see any staff wearing them.

 

[yorkie]

Just back from my local Morrisons where I can judge what real people (away from the pro mask fanatics on twitter) actually think of masks. Only about 1 in 10 wearing them and this is the day before they become compulsory! That says it all to me as to what real people actually think of them.

Indeed; problem is the one in ten who support it are very vocal.

BBC are reporting the guidance has now been confirmed, less than 12 hours before it comes into force:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53513026

Coverings will be mandatory in enclosed public spaces including supermarkets, indoor shopping centres, transport hubs, banks and post offices.

Speaking before the guidance was published, Kate Nicholls, chief executive of UK Hospitality, said the messaging from the government had been contradictory and it was "very late in the day" for the guidance to be confirmed.

 

[bramling]

Just back from my local Morrisons where I can judge what real people (away from the pro mask fanatics on twitter) actually think of masks. Only about 1 in 10 wearing them and this is the day before they become compulsory! That says it all to me as to what real people actually think of them.

From what I’m hearing shops round here are utterly heaving today, with long queues outside in places where there haven’t been of late. The weather isn’t exactly glistening, so one can only really infer this is a pre-mask rush.

I will certainly be avoiding all non-essential shopping henceforth. Unlike public transport I will comply in shops simply to avoid putting staff in a difficult position (especially in supermarkets where the staff really have had it rough through all this, again to some extent unnecessarily so but for Boris incompetence), however I do wonder how many will comply in Tesco in the evening given that seems to have become de-facto “relaxed hour”!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Just back from my local Morrisons where I can judge what real people (away from the pro mask fanatics on twitter) actually think of masks. Only about 1 in 10 wearing them and this is the day before they become compulsory! That says it all to me as to what real people actually think of them.

Footfall statistics for tomorrow, and next week, will prove telling. If there is a massive drop, I expect (hope?) there will be changes. The multiple retailers and shopping centres will be allover the numbers. Some people have access to the corridors of power. If footfall increases, it will be proved right that everyone is too frightened to go out and face-covering will make them feel safe to go out and spend again.

I've booked my home delivery shops into August!

 

[Jamiescott1]

I will be avoiding the high street from now on and doing shopping online, which to be fair I've done since my local shopping centre introduced a one way system and has a recorded message every 5 minutes to remind you about social distancing.

The reason I'm against wearing a mask is that I just dont find covid-19 very prevalent or very serious. What is it... 20000 deaths outside care homes in 6 months? Thats not a huge amount

 

[Huntergreed]

I've seen on my local social media groups that many people have been heading across the border today to enjoy their last moments of breathing fresh air in a shop for a few months.

It seems to be a very small minority who are insisting we must mask up, however the issue is that this minority is screaming so loud that they are perceived to be the majority (most folk I've spoken to are either against or indifferent, I only know 4-5 people who feel very strongly (2 of whom have written to their MSP's saying they don't think they've gone far enough!)

I very much look forward to hearing footfall statistics for shops and shopping centres this weekend and over the next week. If the government were concerned about them being 'ghost towns' before, I think this will be the nail in the coffin myself.

I am very much against the use of masks, and the way that they have been mandated through improper use of the emergency legislation procedures, due to a severe lack of conclusive evidence. If anyone can show me a genuinely strong, scientific piece of evidence that prove masks can lower the risk of transmitting Covid-19 in public settings (non-clinical), I'll happily wear one and accept that it's for the greater good, however until this is so, I disagree with them in principle due to the fact that it seems to be more of a psychological than scientific justification being offered for their mandation, and I believe they'll have the opposite effect than intended.

 

[Yew]

The reason I'm against wearing a mask is that I just dont find covid-19 very prevalent or very serious. What is it... 20000 deaths outside care homes in 6 months? Thats not a huge amount

In all honesty, the risk of C-19 to me is orders of magnetude less than that caused due to the psychological effects that our massive overreaction response is causing.

 

[bramling]

I've seen on my local social media groups that many people have been heading across the border today to enjoy their last moments of breathing fresh air in a shop for a few months.

It seems to be a very small minority who are insisting we must mask up, however the issue is that this minority is screaming so loud that they are perceived to be the majority (most folk I've spoken to are either against or indifferent, I only know 4-5 people who feel very strongly (2 of whom have written to their MSP's saying they don't think they've gone far enough!)

I very much look forward to hearing footfall statistics for shops and shopping centres this weekend and over the next week. If the government were concerned about them being 'ghost towns' before, I think this will be the nail in the coffin myself.

It’s very dodgy ground. There’s already been a shift to online through all this. It *may* be the case that this brings old people, generally the group less likely to use online, out spending, but this would have to be sufficient to overtop those who will switch to online. Personally I don’t think it will, and there’s the serious risk of catalysing a precedent that’s already been boosted by lockdown.

Despite being younger I still haven’t really warmed to online, even against a background where you don’t have to worry about things like your product not being in stock or whatever, however this really could be the tipping point for me. I’d probably go back to shops, that’s if there are any left by the time Boris’s mask fad fizzles out.

 

[bramling]

In all honesty, the risk of C-19 to me is orders of magnetude less than that caused due to the psychological effects that our massive overreaction response is causing.

Agreed. A lot of people are saying they’re finding this all rather draining now, largely due to the way this phobia has now crept into pretty much every aspect of daily life.

 

[Scrotnig]

I shall not set foot in any shop again until this requirement is removed, because I can't. I cannot wear one. It would class as an exemption but that will cause me too much stress and anxiety and could bring on a panic attack in itself.

It's sad. Since all this started, I've generally switched a lot of my business from the big supermarkets to smaller local shops. Now, I won't be able to go in them, so they will lose the trade back to supermarket click and collects.

As for non-food sops...they will lose all my trade Amazon and similar, something I'd sought to avoid over the years.

Hey-ho. Not my fault if the government legislates to ban me from all retail outlets, they can complain to the government if they find too many people feel as I do.

 

[Kendalian]

We did our weekly big Tesco shop today instead of tomorrow to beat the masks. I didn't go around counting everyone, but mask wearers guestimate around 10-15%, which tallies with what others have said today. Saw 1 staff member inside the shop wearing a mask (plus the chap at the entrance with a face shield).
I think this is a very dangerous moment in the whole crisis, with a real potential for conflict between individuals. Trust in Government handling of the crisis has been falling, especially since the Cummings debacle and they haven't done anywhere near enough to justify why mask wearing is needed now, when it wasn't when the virus was rampant in March/April.

The Chief Scientific Advisor and the Deputy Chief Medical Officer (a world authority on influenza) were adamant in March masks made no difference. Did they really get that so badly wrong, or is Hancock making it up as he goes along? Do you need half an hour to work that out?

1 essential shop a week only for me now until this masks nonsense ends; anything else I'll buy online or make do and mend.

 

[bramling]

We did our weekly big Tesco shop today instead of tomorrow to beat the masks. I didn't go around counting everyone, but mask wearers guestimate around 10-15%, which tallies with what others have said today. Saw 1 staff member inside the shop wearing a mask (plus the chap at the entrance with a face shield).
I think this is a very dangerous moment in the whole crisis, with a real potential for conflict between individuals. Trust in Government handling of the crisis has been falling, especially since the Cummings debacle and they haven't done anywhere near enough to justify why mask wearing is needed now, when it wasn't when the virus was rampant in March/April.

The Chief Scientific Advisor and the Deputy Chief Medical Officer (a world authority on influenza) were adamant in March masks made no difference. Did they really get that so badly wrong, or is Hancock making it up as he goes along? Do you need half an hour to work that out?

More than just that they make no difference, Jenny Harries has stated very clearly on more than one occasion that masks have a very real risk of doing “more harm than good”.

If a politician wants me to embrace a measure which a deputy Chief Medical Officer has only recently gone on record saying it may do “more harm than good” then they need to make a damn good case.

Needless to say, they haven’t.

(And who can blame anyone for being sceptical when a number of our top politicians were careless enough to catch C19 themselves, something most other world politicians managed to avoid, as well as having generally made a total shambles of the handling of the whole affair to date).

 

[Baxenden Bank]

It’s very dodgy ground. There’s already been a shift to online through all this. It *may* be the case that this brings old people, generally the group less likely to use online, out spending, but this would have to be sufficient to overtop those who will switch to online. Personally I don’t think it will, and there’s the serious risk of catalysing a precedent that’s already been boosted by lockdown.

Despite being younger I still haven’t really warmed to online, even against a background where you don’t have to worry about things like your product not being in stock or whatever, however this really could be the tipping point for me. I’d probably go back to shops, that’s if there are any left by the time Boris’s mask fad fizzles out.

I find the idea of wearing a mask on the bus for 45 minutes into town, queuing outside shops (possibly wearing a mask), finally getting into the shop to find they don't have your size, going to another shop and finding they don't stock your brand, returning home another 45 minutes on the bus, simply not worth it. I would do it for a specialist item which I had to see / try on first - such as footwear. Add in the fact that delivery is cheaper than the bus fare: Amazon - from free, £7.99 per month Prime, Argos £3.95, Tesco from £3.00) against £4.00 return, £5.00 day ticket on the bus.

 

[MikeWM]

From what I’m hearing shops round here are utterly heaving today, with long queues outside in places where there haven’t been of late. The weather isn’t exactly glistening, so one can only really infer this is a pre-mask rush.

Wandered into Ely City Centre for lunch as I haven't for a while. Definitely busiest I've seen it for a long while - I had to ask some people queueing to get into a shop to move so I could get to the cash machine.

Maybe 20-25% people masked - up on say a month ago, when it was probably about 10%. The more you get I find the more oppressive and unpleasant it feels - everyone seems to be either scowling or looking generally miserable. What a depressing way to continue a depressing year.