Air bridges with European countries given "green light"

[Howardh]

Yes, there are some incredible low prices at short notice both for flights and accommodation. Its still relatively expensive to go away in August but cheaper advanced booking last year. I booked flights to Italy (Alitalia) and 7 days in a 4* hotel for a total of £600 at short notice in mid July. If you want to go on holiday in September after kids return to school then you will be able to find good deals a week or so beforehand, if you are are flexible.

At the end of August, one of the most expensive weeks in the year - a few days and flight to Ibiza would have cost me under £500. nearly booked it - but glad now I didn't.

 

[Howardh]

I must admit that I am finding it increasingly difficult to tell whether you really believe this stuff or are simply trolling. Masks are 'brilliant', are they? Despite an almost complete lack of evidence, and Oxford epidemiologists not being convinced?

The more someone wants to stop me travelling overseas, the more I am going to do it if at all possible. If we can't move around, then that should also apply to our own country. If it's a case of protecting people, I get that, but taken to extremes how do we protect people from flu and other stuff that can kill them? The flu jab didn't work on my late mum, nor my dad two years earler. Should we all become hermits and never venture outside to save people? Answers on a postcard...

 

[Chester1]

At the end of August, one of the most expensive weeks in the year - a few days and flight to Ibiza would have cost me under £500. nearly booked it - but glad now I didn't.

In these strange times a month is too far in advance. Two weeks beforehand is probably the earliest I would even consider. Spain was starting to look a bit risky two weeks ago and very risky a week ago.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

What I want the Government to "dictate" (I prefer legislate, as it doesn't carry the perjorative meaning your term does), which they are doing, is laws that reduce the risk posed to me and to our national infrastructure by other people. Masks are a brilliant example of this.

Yep, brilliant example with little to no positive evidence of their effect on the prevalence of the virus. Jog on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must admit that I am finding it increasingly difficult to tell whether you really believe this stuff or are simply trolling. Masks are 'brilliant', are they? Despite an almost complete lack of evidence, and Oxford epidemiologists not being convinced?

Where did I use the word "brilliant"?

 

[Darandio]

Where did I use the word "brilliant"?

When you said masks are a brilliant example?

 

[Bletchleyite]

When you said masks are a brilliant example?

I said they were a brilliant example, because the entire purpose is to protect others from a potentially infected person. That isn't the same as saying masks are brilliant in and of themselves; they are a relatively minor element of the response to the disease, though one I think is worth doing.

 

[Howardh]

In these strange times a month is too far in advance. Two weeks beforehand is probably the earliest I would even consider. Spain was starting to look a bit risky two weeks ago and very risky a week ago.

The worry now, of course, is you book today for, say, Greece, fly tomorrow and on Tuesday they say all change and you have to quarantine on return. OK, a bit extreme, you can follow the case figures and see they are stable and book accordingly, but as Spain showed, they can flare up suddenly and you are already on holiday.

 

[Tetchytyke]

That really makes me quite angry. I hope they are enforced strictly and anyone doing this (other than "de minimis" stuff like going for a run at 4am and making effort to ensure you don't come within 2m of another person) is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Our government jail people with the attitude that the quarantine rules don't apply to them. And you know what, it works!

 

[bramling]

What I want the Government to "dictate" (I prefer legislate, as it doesn't carry the perjorative meaning your term does)

I don't know, given the lack of debate and scrutiny over some of the measures, not least masks, I'm not so sure on this one. Normally MPs vote after debate where different views are put forward and considered, there doesn't seem to have been much evidence of that here.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't know, given the lack of debate and scrutiny over some of the measures, not least masks, I'm not so sure on this one.

Majority of 70, a 3-line whip, there's your "scrutiny".

 

[Bantamzen]

I said they were a brilliant example, because the entire purpose is to protect others from a potentially infected person. That isn't the same as saying masks are brilliant in and of themselves; they are a relatively minor element of the response to the disease, though one I think is worth doing.

Erm.... So which is it? Masks are a brilliant example of a mitigation against the spread of the virus, or they are not? Enquiring minds need to know.

 

[Yew]

Eh? We don't have a statistically significant difference in the number of deaths caused by bathroom electrocution because of those measures!

Apologies, I should have specified "compared to countries that didn't adopt those measures"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Our government jail people with the attitude that the quarantine rules don't apply to them. And you know what, it works!

That sounds reasonable to me. TBH, having just spent nearly 2 weeks basically not leaving the house due to a medical condition that has restricted my mobility (not COVID, and fortunately improving by the day) I'm stir crazy beyond belief, and so I can quite see why some people might consider a £100 fine a reasonable price to pay.

I have however decided not to go abroad this year (other than possibly a random last minute short trip to a country with very low figures, but probably not even that) so it's unlikely to apply to me. The only other way it could (barring me actually getting infected, which is unlikely as my close contact with others is at present very, very low) would be if my "bubble mate" was to become a confirmed case.

I don't know, given the lack of debate and scrutiny over some of the measures, not least masks, I'm not so sure on this one. Normally MPs vote after debate where different views are put forward and considered, there doesn't seem to have been much evidence of that here.

Yes, I would prefer that these laws went to Parliament first, and as they're not urgent I can see no reason not to. However, the Government do have a considerable majority, and as such the practical effect of this is not actually that considerable. I think I'd object far more if I knew that (a) Labour opposed the measures (they don't, and I think Starmer is actually more of a Sturgeonite in terms of measures, i.e. he wants them rather stricter than they are) and that (b) the Tory majority was small (it isn't, I forget the figure, but it's quite large).

I would like to see, as part of the inquiry that needs to happen into all this, consideration of how this should work if needed in future and changes to the relevant laws that enable it (one of the health protection laws though I forget which one).

Erm.... So which is it? Masks are a brilliant example of a mitigation against the spread of the virus, or they are not? Enquiring minds need to know.

What I said was that masks are a brilliant example of something that should be legislated because they are an altruistic measure, basically they don't provide any considerable advantage to the wearer (unless it's an N95 respirator or better) and in fact cause them minor disadvantage through discomfort, but the idea of them is to protect others.

I didn't say masks themselves were brilliant, which would be different. Nor are they a brilliant anti-COVID measure, they're likely to be a relatively small one, but where we differ is on whether that's worth it or not, I guess.

Apologies, I should have specified "compared to countries that didn't adopt those measures"

Ah, fair enough. Though I think it would need looking into as to whether RCDs were common in those other countries, as they obviate the need for it because you then effectively can't be killed by chucking the hairdryer in the bath (or whatever) because the RCD will cut the power well before enough of it has had chance to course through you to cause death. The UK hasn't started fitting RCDs to domestic power installations until relatively recently (I think Edition 17 of the IEE Regs was when they came in, we're on Edition 18 now...I think) and indeed there are plenty of houses with older installations, including mine, that still don't have them. (I use a plugin one when cutting the grass). But anyway that doesn't have much to do with COVID

 

[Yew]

You keep going on about New Zealand, but hardly anyone seems to think that their strategy is going to work long-term as they can't keep it up indefinitely.

So to put it in context, I would consider that on a standard six-sided dice, New Zealand needs to continuously roll 3+, maybe higher if it opens up to tourists. I think for the UK, we'd have to continuously roll 5+, given our international relationships, hub airports, and EU connections.

 

[Yew]

Ah, fair enough. Though I think it would need looking into as to whether RCDs were common in those other countries, as they obviate the need for it because you then effectively can't be killed by chucking the hairdryer in the bath (or whatever) because the RCD will cut the power well before enough of it has had chance to course through you to cause death. The UK hasn't started fitting RCDs to domestic power installations until relatively recently (I think Edition 17 of the IEE Regs was when they came in, we're on Edition 18 now...I think) and indeed there are plenty of houses with older installations, including mine, that still don't have them. (I use a plugin one when cutting the grass). But anyway that doesn't have much to do with COVID

Indeed, ultimately the point I was trying to make was that "Things might look good prima facie, but looking good does not compel the thing to be effective when it comes time to measure it's effect"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, ultimately the point I was trying to make was that "Things might look good prima facie, but looking good does not compel the thing to be effective when it comes time to measure it's effect"

Yes, that's true.

 

[Skymonster]

So to put it in context, I would consider that on a standard six-sided dice, New Zealand needs to continuously roll 3+, maybe higher if it opens up to tourists. I think for the UK, we'd have to continuously roll 5+, given our international relationships, hub airports, and EU connections.

No, New Zealand needs to roll a six every time it lets someone into the country because it has no exposure, whereas countries that have taken a more pragmatic approach can make do with a 2 or 3 without upping the ante.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, New Zealand needs to roll a six every time it lets someone into the country because it has no exposure, whereas countries that have taken a more pragmatic approach can make do with a 2 or 3 without upping the ante.

It can, of course, weight the dice with a robust, no-exceptions quarantine and testing process.

(They made an exception once and it backfired - they won't be doing it again!)

 

[Yew]

It can, of course, weight the dice with a robust, no-exceptions quarantine and testing process.

(They made an exception once and it backfired - they won't be doing it again!)

A tough call, when a massive part of your economy is through international tourisim.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A tough call, when a massive part of your economy is through international tourisim.

Indeed, though some of it will be replaced by domestic tourism.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I've entered the uk twice in the past fortnight and neither time was I asked to show that I'd completed the form to say where I'd been

 

[Scrotnig]

Indeed, though some of it will be replaced by domestic tourism.

Not very much. The domestic tourism industry doesn't have the capacity to cope with large numbers of people who would normally holiday abroad suddenly deciding to holiday in the UK.

 

[DB]

Indeed, though some of it will be replaced by domestic tourism.

But New Zealand has a fairly low population, so that it unlikely to make up the shortfall.

 

[WestCoast]

A quick Google search shows that in 2019 3.8 million people visited New Zealand (total population under 5 million) so yes I'd imagine it will cause quite a dent. However almost 40% were Australians and they may be some of the first to be welcomed back presumably?

It may also dent their immigration programme for skilled workers as well.

 

[Howardh]

I've entered the uk twice in the past fortnight and neither time was I asked to show that I'd completed the form to say where I'd been

Train, air or ferry? Either way, if you have arrived from a "clear" country then why would they need to ask? Thinking if you jet in from Austria, then that's where you have come from....but probelm is if several flights at once arrive, some from covid-rich countries like the USA so they would need asking and recording.
But that goes away if "safe" flights go a domestic/European terminal and the others go to another i suppose (ie Manchester's T1, T2 and T3.)

 

[brad465]

A quick Google search shows that in 2019 3.8 million people visited New Zealand (total population under 5 million) so yes I'd imagine it will cause quite a dent. However almost 40% were Australians and they may be some of the first to be welcomed back presumably?

It may also dent their immigration programme for skilled workers as well.

There was a lot of talk about such a bridge although I wouldn't be surprised if that's on hold after the Melbourne/Victoria fiasco (or at least that's diverting Australia's attention away from such an air bridge discussion).

 

[DB]

Australia will find it more difficult than NZ to get rid of it temporarily - but if it does, then what? In order for NZ to allow Australians in, presumably that would be dependent on Australia closing its borders to people from all countries apart from NZ.

 

[221129]

First, people were asked to socially distance, then they didn't so it became the law.

That has not ever been law.

 

[Richard Scott]

Indeed, though some of it will be replaced by domestic tourism.

That doesn't bring foreign currency in though does it?