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Temporary Closure for Rose Hill Marple

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edwin_m

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Also the Brinnington freight terminal is on a short branch off the Hyde route. It's also worth noting that the junction faces the wrong way for trains from Peak District so they have to to run round on the main line, unless a path can be found on the roundabout and congested route via Denton and Stockport.
 
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Greybeard33

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Also the Brinnington freight terminal is on a short branch off the Hyde route. It's also worth noting that the junction faces the wrong way for trains from Peak District so they have to to run round on the main line, unless a path can be found on the roundabout and congested route via Denton and Stockport.
As well as the Tilcon stone terminal, the Bredbury refuse terminal is also served by the branch from Woodley, which is the stub of the former CLC line to Northenden Jn via Stockport Tiviot Dale. The daily binliner trains to Runcorn Folly Lane are always routed via Guide Bridge, Denton, Stockport Edgeley, Altrincham and the Mid-Cheshire to Hartford.
Of the heavy rail commuter routes into Manchester, I think the Rose Hill Marple via Hyde service is unique in that it is entirely within the GM boundary, runs parallel to a quicker, better patronised route, and uses lines (Hyde and Rose Hill branches) that are not shared with longer distance regional passenger services.
 

sportzbar

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Looking at it from an operational point of view, I think (ready for people to tell me how I'm wrong) this was the only thing to do. Before the pandemic happened, training was happening and all was going reasonably well.

Then Covid-19 happened. Suddenly all training, route learning etc has to stop. From my perspective as a trainee driver (with 250+ colleagues in the same boat company wide), it's been if anything frustrating but understandable. We've been waiting 18+ weeks now to go back and continue so that's just one aspect of it.

On top of this there are still a large number of drivers to be trained on the new traction which takes time. This was paused. Route learning has also been paused. On top of this there have been retirements meaning that when services do increase there will be less drivers to operate them. There is nearly 5 months worth of training that has to be caught up now.

Unfortunately for those affected, rather that piecemeal preplanned cancellations that can go drastically wrong affecting the whole network for that day, operationally the best plan overall was to suspend the Rose Hill line temporarily. It's not being closed permanently. It will be back
 

Bletchleyite

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Unfortunately for those affected, rather that piecemeal preplanned cancellations that can go drastically wrong affecting the whole network for that day, operationally the best plan overall was to suspend the Rose Hill line temporarily. It's not being closed permanently. It will be back

Piecemeal cancellations are bad, yes. But what I don't get is why it could not be achieved by reducing frequencies a bit across the whole network rather than binning off a whole service.
 

py_megapixel

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Piecemeal cancellations are bad, yes. But what I don't get is why it could not be achieved by reducing frequencies a bit across the whole network rather than binning off a whole service.
What concerns me slightly is... if you needed to bin off 2 Sprinter diagrams in the Manchester area (which I think must be what Rose Hill operates with) then why not bin off a couple from the Buxton Line for example? That's presumably operationally simpler than attempting to do piecemeal cancellations across the entire network and adjusting diagrams to match, but still leaves the line in question with a usable service.
 

sportzbar

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Piecemeal cancellations are bad, yes. But what I don't get is why it could not be achieved by reducing frequencies a bit across the whole network rather than binning off a whole service.
Operationally it would and does affect the Piccadilly depot which has a huge amount of training to get through. As the majority of the work is done in self contained diagrams (3 x rose hills on one job), it is easier to cancel that line of route temporarily. The drivers allocated for these diagrams can now easily take over jobs that are being done by instructors. This then frees the instructors up to continue training other drivers on new traction (195/331). Yes it's unfortunate and many don't agree but this is the quickest, easiest, and least disruptive plan for crews, planning staff and the vast majority of passengers that use the rest of the network.
 

Bletchleyite

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What concerns me slightly is... if you needed to bin off 2 Sprinter diagrams in the Manchester area (which I think must be what Rose Hill operates with) then why not bin off a couple from the Buxton Line for example? That's presumably operationally simpler than attempting to do piecemeal cancellations across the entire network and adjusting diagrams to match, but still leaves the line in question with a usable service.

I think it'd be 3 now the line is half hourly in normal circumstances (the Marple terminator was diverted to Rose Hill some years ago). The journey time is annoyingly 32 minutes.

You could drop it to a 1h15 ish frequency (a la Ormskirk-Preston of old) and in doing so get it to one unit, though.
 

Greybeard33

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I think it'd be 3 now the line is half hourly in normal circumstances (the Marple terminator was diverted to Rose Hill some years ago). The journey time is annoyingly 32 minutes.

You could drop it to a 1h15 ish frequency (a la Ormskirk-Preston of old) and in doing so get it to one unit, though.
I doubt that timetable changes to give a 1h15 frequency would be feasible for September, given that the paths have to fit between the Hull, Huddersfield and Hadfield services between Piccadilly and Guide Bridge, and also between the Sheffield and New Mills services between Piccadilly and Ashburys and again between Romiley and Marple Wharf Jn. Much easier to bin off services than recast the whole timetable.
 

Starmill

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I'm sure it is, but the easiest option is not always the right one.
You'd end up with a 2-hourly service. There might be some justification for that, but it would still consume resources and almost nobody would use it, for obvious reasons!
 

Deafdoggie

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All the more reason that a RRB service and some form of income would be attractive. Heck, Northern/DfT might even be able to get it at a reduced rate.
It’s simply not economic to reregister everything for a small job like that, with no further work on the horizon. You can only register coaches for a calendar month. So 31st July & 1st August may only be two days work, but are two months registration. That’s two months to be paid for! Not worth it for RRB.

An interesting quote from a coach operator in Modern Railways this month, explaining why he won’t be investing in PSVAR compliant vehicles to be able to continue getting rail replacement work. “Am I worried that I won’t get any more phone calls at 04.00 from a rail company that wants to pay £200 for a coach and driver at the drop of a hat? No.”

(His company is described as the mainstay of rail replacement services in North Wales.)
Presumably “Pat’s Coaches” of Wrexham. But could be any number. If RRB need to be PSVAR expect there to be less of them. Even more so now. Coach companies are going to the wall left, right & centre. Cost-cutting is inevitable. Accessible coaches are an unnecessary expense. Best not to have them and be a viable business, than have them and be bankrupt.
 

Bletchleyite

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It’s simply not economic to reregister everything for a small job like that, with no further work on the horizon. You can only register coaches for a calendar month. So 31st July & 1st August may only be two days work, but are two months registration. That’s two months to be paid for! Not worth it for RRB.

Though this specific RRB would be four months work minimum, quite likely in my view to end up extended.
 

Starmill

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Though this specific RRB would be four months work minimum, quite likely in my view to end up extended.
A six month bus contract would be well in order. In normal times it would be done too. Even if it only ran Guide Bridge to Rose Hill Marple, with train connections at Guide Bridge and Romiley.
 

Bevan Price

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Though this specific RRB would be four months work minimum, quite likely in my view to end up extended.
And it does not need to be coaches. For short distances, I imagine the nearest Stagecoach bus depot could provide something suitable.
 

py_megapixel

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And it does not need to be coaches. For short distances, I imagine the nearest Stagecoach bus depot could provide something suitable.
Every time I've been over the Stockport viaduct there's been loads of buses parked up, both in the bus station and the depot behind it.
I don't know if that depot is near enough that it could serve Marple?
 

Starmill

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Every time I've been over the Stockport viaduct there's been loads of buses parked up, both in the bus station and the depot behind it.
I don't know if that depot is near enough that it could serve Marple?
It's literally just a few miles down the road.
 

Rail Ranger

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The Manchester-Northwich-Chester service is increasing from 2-hourly to hourly from 14th September with one peak hour extra at 0818 from Stockport to Chester (this is from Real Time Trains). Truly "robbing Peter to pay Paul"!
 

scrapy

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I doubt that timetable changes to give a 1h15 frequency would be feasible for September, given that the paths have to fit between the Hull, Huddersfield and Hadfield services between Piccadilly and Guide Bridge, and also between the Sheffield and New Mills services between Piccadilly and Ashburys and again between Romiley and Marple Wharf Jn. Much easier to bin off services than recast the whole timetable.
There should be the paths for a 1h30 frequency though as the service was half hourly previously.

The Manchester-Northwich-Chester service is increasing from 2-hourly to hourly from 14th September with one peak hour extra at 0818 from Stockport to Chester (this is from Real Time Trains). Truly "robbing Peter to pay Paul"!
Difference is that the most stations on the Chester route don't have an alternative within walking distance for most people.
 

Greybeard33

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The Manchester-Northwich-Chester service is increasing from 2-hourly to hourly from 14th September with one peak hour extra at 0818 from Stockport to Chester (this is from Real Time Trains). Truly "robbing Peter to pay Paul"!
There are big cross-boundary pupil flows between Stockport, Altrincham, Hale and Knutsford, to the Altrincham grammar schools (from both Stockport and Knutsford) and to the (comprehensive) Knutsford Academy (from Altrincham and Hale). Risk of overcrowding once the schools go back in September. I presume that is why the 0818 extra is being restored, but not the other, commuter peak, extras between Stockport and Chester.
 

Rail Ranger

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I'm not querying the need for an hourly service on the mid-Cheshire line. It's just that it shouldn't be at the expense of the entire Rose Hill via Hyde service. There is no direct bus from Rose Hill or Woodley to Manchester and it's a fair hike from Fairfield to the Ashton Metrolink line.
 

billh

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I'm not querying the need for an hourly service on the mid-Cheshire line. It's just that it shouldn't be at the expense of the entire Rose Hill via Hyde service. There is no direct bus from Rose Hill or Woodley to Manchester and it's a fair hike from Fairfield to the Ashton Metrolink line.
The 219 bus service into Manchester passes close to Fairfield down the Ashton Old Road and is(was?) very regular, every 10 minutes or so.More convenient than the tram.
Agree about Rose Hill and Woodley though.
 

Greybeard33

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I'm not querying the need for an hourly service on the mid-Cheshire line. It's just that it shouldn't be at the expense of the entire Rose Hill via Hyde service. There is no direct bus from Rose Hill or Woodley to Manchester and it's a fair hike from Fairfield to the Ashton Metrolink line.
According to RTT, the Mid-Cheshire will remain 2 hourly outside the peaks. And the 0808 Stockport to Chester is not really an "extra", because the preceding 0741 Piccadilly to Chester is not being restored. See
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-increases-in-july.206234/page-4#post-4691844
 

Rail Ranger

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But the mid-Cheshire line service is being significantly enhanced at the same time that the Rose Hill service is being essentially withdrawn.
 
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