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Bus Enthusiast Etiquette.

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CN04NRJ

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i think they got the point the first 2 times... :lol:



not the biggest fan of enthusiasts, so dropping the scent is always good fun.

Define enthusiasts?

Do you mean veg and/or otherwise normal people with an interest in particular companies or buses. For example i've only really got an interest in companies I work or have worked for as you can see with my posting history. I've never gone out taking photos of buses and have little interest otherwise.

It would seem slightly malicious if you're only using this forum to deliberately misinform or mislead people that have genuine interest in various companies/goings on in the bus industry because you don't 'like' 'enthusiasts'.
 
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OmniCity999

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Define enthusiasts?

Do you mean veg and/or otherwise normal people with an interest in particular companies or buses. For example i've only really got an interest in companies I work or have worked for as you can see with my posting history. I've never gone out taking photos of buses and have little interest otherwise.

It would seem slightly malicious if you're only using this forum to deliberately misinform or mislead people that have genuine interest in various companies/goings on in the bus industry because you don't 'like' 'enthusiasts'.

Of course not, im targeting the extremists here, the ones who are caught snooping round depots late at night without permission or walking around engineering spaces, again obviously without permission, more common than you think.
 

scosutsut

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Of course not, im targeting the extremists here, the ones who are caught snooping round depots late at night without permission or walking around engineering spaces, again obviously without permission, more common than you think.
I never thought I'd see the words Extremist and Bus Spotter in the same sentence. It has amused me greatly and I thank you for it.

In all seriousness, they do sound like the worst type of people though who should know much better.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Of course not, im targeting the extremists here, the ones who are caught snooping round depots late at night without permission or walking around engineering spaces, again obviously without permission, more common than you think.
Ah.... the militant wing of the PSV Circle!!

There are sadly idiots in every facet of life. In the bus world, it is those who go prowling in depots in the evening, even thieving keepsakes etc. That, or idiots who go running across busy bus stations to get "that photo".

However, don't think it's quite right to post duff information for "sport"
 

OmniCity999

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I never thought I'd see the words Extremist and Bus Spotter in the same sentence. It has amused me greatly and I thank you for it.

In all seriousness, they do sound like the worst type of people though who should know much better.

You're welcome :lol:

Ah.... the militant wing of the PSV Circle!!

There are sadly idiots in every facet of life. In the bus world, it is those who go prowling in depots in the evening, even thieving keepsakes etc. That, or idiots who go running across busy bus stations to get "that photo".

However, don't think it's quite right to post duff information for "sport"
they are a special breed.
 

CN04NRJ

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Of course not, im targeting the extremists here, the ones who are caught snooping round depots late at night without permission or walking around engineering spaces, again obviously without permission, more common than you think.

Ah I see, sorry if I overreacted there as I thought you were 'tarring all with the same brush' with your post. It's just that you are one of the few reliable sources of information when it comes to the Lothian group on this forum and I thought it would be unfortunate if we couldn't rely on it being true.

I know exactly the type you are talking about, I saw a Facebook post recently about an unauthorized person walking around the car park at Central around 3am making notes of buses parked there and recently a young enthusiast was trespassing in Cardiff Bus' two depots on sloper road taking pictures. It's extremists like them who spoil the hobby for the rest of us.
 

DunsBus

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I remember of one chap, back in 2006, who visited Seafield every Sunday for the latest gen and and to get photos. He then posted his reports, and links to his photos, to the various internet news groups.

All went well until one weekend when he put up a picture of a newly-delivered "Ace of Spades" Gemini in the process of being branded and another photo which showed Olympian 970, which had recently sustained fire damage, being dismantled.

The following weekend when he went to Seafield for his weekly fix of gen and photos he was told, in no uncertain terms, to leave and not to come back. Somewhat peeved, he then wrote to the then MD (Neil Renilson) protesting innocence - and got a rather stern reply in return! To this day that chap still maintains that he was hard done by.
 

Jordan Adam

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Experimental triple decker under a previous MD's instructions...
Mr Hall last seen muttering "I'll show that Harry Potter"

Worryingly believable. :lol: :lol:

I know exactly the type you are talking about, I saw a Facebook post recently about an unauthorized person walking around the car park at Central around 3am making notes of buses parked there and recently a young enthusiast was trespassing in Cardiff Bus' two depots on sloper road taking pictures. It's extremists like them who spoil the hobby for the rest of us.

Agree, it's very unfortunate that many enthusiasts don't know the rules, ignore the rules or try to bend the rules to fit their prerogative.

I remember of one chap, back in 2006, who visited Seafield every Sunday for the latest gen and and to get photos. He then posted his reports, and links to his photos, to the various internet news groups.

All went well until one weekend when he put up a picture of a newly-delivered "Ace of Spades" Gemini in the process of being branded and another photo which showed Olympian 970, which had recently sustained fire damage, being dismantled.

The following weekend when he went to Seafield for his weekly fix of gen and photos he was told, in no uncertain terms, to leave and not to come back. Somewhat peeved, he then wrote to the then MD (Neil Renilson) protesting innocence - and got a rather stern reply in return! To this day that chap still maintains that he was hard done by.

I don't see the problem with taking those photos provided it was from public land, obviously it's different if it was inside the depot. Many enthusiasts (myself included) take photos as a historic record of that vehicle's life, therefor getting a new or new to the area vehicle when it first arrives prior to entering service is often a priority. For example in the image linked those two buses had just arrived from Falkirk and i wanted to get them prior to the branding/adverts etc being removed. As i say however there's a clear difference between doing this lawfully from public land and entering a depot. If a bus was out of the way and i couldn't photo it it would be a simple case of "bad luck", unfortunately a small minority of enthusiasts don't see it that way.

In short my opinion is that if it's in public view then it's fair game.
 

CN04NRJ

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Many enthusiasts (myself included) take photos as a historic record of that vehicle's life, therefor getting a new or new to the area vehicle when it first arrives prior to entering service is often a priority. For example in the image linked those two buses had just arrived from Falkirk and i wanted to get them prior to the branding/adverts etc being removed. As i say however there's a clear difference between doing this lawfully from public land and entering a depot. If a bus was out of the way and i couldn't photo it it would be a simple case of "bad luck", unfortunately a small minority of enthusiasts don't see it that way.

I've only taken photos of buses that I've driven for my own record, and it's nice to look back at what I've driven and what's changed since passing my test in 2009 at 19.

Obviously as an employee of whatever company I/we have privileged access to the depot so have always refrained from taking photos of anything the company wouldn't want seen by the public - new deliveries or damaged vehicles etc unless with permission.

I've seen what happens to drivers/staff that post images online of accident damaged vehicles or new stuff before they're launched - and there was that recent post on a Facebook group with a photo of central depot fleet list that ended up in somebody becoming unemployed. Again, it's people like that who spoil it for the rest of us who follow the norm/policies.

I fear that we've strayed far off topic though and a discussion about extremist enthusiasts is perhaps a thread of its own.
 

DunsBus

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Worryingly believable. :lol: :lol:



Agree, it's very unfortunate that many enthusiasts don't know the rules, ignore the rules or try to bend the rules to fit their prerogative.



I don't see the problem with taking those photos provided it was from public land, obviously it's different if it was inside the depot. Many enthusiasts (myself included) take photos as a historic record of that vehicle's life, therefor getting a new or new to the area vehicle when it first arrives prior to entering service is often a priority. For example in the image linked those two buses had just arrived from Falkirk and i wanted to get them prior to the branding/adverts etc being removed. As i say however there's a clear difference between doing this lawfully from public land and entering a depot. If a bus was out of the way and i couldn't photo it it would be a simple case of "bad luck", unfortunately a small minority of enthusiasts don't see it that way.

In short my opinion is that if it's in public view then it's fair game.

That chap actually ventured inside Seafield to get his photos. Little wonder, then, that LB threw the book at hIm.
 

OmniCity999

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I remember of one chap, back in 2006, who visited Seafield every Sunday for the latest gen and and to get photos. He then posted his reports, and links to his photos, to the various internet news groups.

All went well until one weekend when he put up a picture of a newly-delivered "Ace of Spades" Gemini in the process of being branded and another photo which showed Olympian 970, which had recently sustained fire damage, being dismantled.

The following weekend when he went to Seafield for his weekly fix of gen and photos he was told, in no uncertain terms, to leave and not to come back. Somewhat peeved, he then wrote to the then MD (Neil Renilson) protesting innocence - and got a rather stern reply in return! To this day that chap still maintains that he was hard done by.
I'd be interested to find ut who this was to compare notes...
 

Jordan Adam

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I fear that we've strayed far off topic though and a discussion about extremist enthusiasts is perhaps a thread of its own.

Following on from some posts in the "West Lothian Buses" thread... I thought it would be fitting to set up a new thread discussing bus enthusiast etiquette, specifically when it comes to taking photos at depots. It would also be interesting to hear how company policy varies at different operators regarding taking photos of vehicle inside the depot etc.
 

Jordan Adam

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I've only taken photos of buses that I've driven for my own record, and it's nice to look back at what I've driven and what's changed since passing my test in 2009 at 19.

Obviously as an employee of whatever company I/we have privileged access to the depot so have always refrained from taking photos of anything the company wouldn't want seen by the public - new deliveries or damaged vehicles etc unless with permission.

I've seen what happens to drivers/staff that post images online of accident damaged vehicles or new stuff before they're launched - and there was that recent post on a Facebook group with a photo of central depot fleet list that ended up in somebody becoming unemployed. Again, it's people like that who spoil it for the rest of us who follow the norm/policies.

I fear that we've strayed far off topic though and a discussion about extremist enthusiasts is perhaps a thread of its own.

I do think if you work at an operator, especially one of the larger firms then an extra deal of care does need to be taken, especially in depots. Some operators are more liberal when it comes to drivers taken photos than others.

I saw that post, i think the person in question was a cleaner employed by an external contractor. Although the list didn't contain any confidential information i can understand why they got sacked because if they were more than fine posting a fleetlist from in the depot then who knows what it would be next!

That chap actually ventured inside Seafield to get his photos. Little wonder, then, that LB threw the book at hIm.

I thought that might have been the case, shame as he likely ruined it for many others.
 

Bletchleyite

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Personal view:

If you want to take photographs in a public operational location like a bus station, ensure you're out of the way of staff and passengers at all times, and never use flash. Also follow any other measures required by the owner/operator of the bus station if it's private land (some are, some aren't). Also, out of politeness, if someone signals to you that they do not wish to appear on the photograph, respect that. You've no legal requirement to do so but it's only polite.

If you want to take photographs in a depot, make an appointment to visit unless the photographs can be taken entirely from public land outside and without causing any obstruction to the operation.
 

Jordan Adam

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Personal view:

If you want to take photographs in a public operational location like a bus station, ensure you're out of the way of staff and passengers at all times, and never use flash. Also follow any other measures required by the owner/operator of the bus station if it's private land (some are, some aren't). Also, out of politeness, if someone signals to you that they do not wish to appear on the photograph, respect that. You've no legal requirement to do so but it's only polite.

If you want to take photographs in a depot, make an appointment to visit unless the photographs can be taken entirely from public land outside and without causing any obstruction to the operation.

Even outside bus stations you should never use flash, it can be very dangerous.

I also agree with depots, although some operators dislike enthusiasts taking photos at depots even if it's from public land, i personally have never had any problems locally and usually go right up to the fence.
 

Pat1105

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Some companies are very accommodating when it comes to enthusiasts. National Express are a good example with open days etc. Some companies will allow you to come in to their depots and are more than happy to show you around as long as you contact them prior.
Arriva for some reason don’t permit any depot visits whatsoever.
 

Jordan Adam

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It was a chap called Alastair Liddle if I recall correctly. His Yahoo handle was NSF323, which he also used as his Flickr one.

Said photos are still visible on Flickr. I can see why management weren't pleased about it.

Interestingly he has a different recollection of events in the comments here.
 

DunsBus

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There are also those enthusiasts who hero-worship certain buses. It just needs the very mention of preserved LB Olympian X285 to send various Edinburgh-area enthusiasts into a frenzy, whilst the sight of it provokes mass hysteria in the veg ranks and has actually now got to a point where I call it "the Kleenex bus".
 

CN04NRJ

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There are also those enthusiasts who hero-worship certain buses. It just needs the very mention of preserved LB Olympian X285 to send various Edinburgh-area enthusiasts into a frenzy, whilst the sight of it provokes mass hysteria in the veg ranks and has actually now got to a point where I call it "the Kleenex bus".

Amusing! I had 856 last week on Rathos and was photographed by two bus paparazzi on cycles and another who had parked in a bus stop on the A8 to get a photo from the central reservation.

The level of bus enthusiasm seems to be much lower in South Wales where I'm from/drove for 10 years so this whole business of 'celebrity buses' and enthusiasts getting out on their cars and bikes to photo a particular bus on an unusual working is all new to me if a bit bemusing. Since moving here I'm surprised by how many people are into the hobby and how seriously they take it - particularly the whole Lothian/First rivalry.
 

OmniCity999

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There are also those enthusiasts who hero-worship certain buses. It just needs the very mention of preserved LB Olympian X285 to send various Edinburgh-area enthusiasts into a frenzy, whilst the sight of it provokes mass hysteria in the veg ranks and has actually now got to a point where I call it "the Kleenex bus".

Theres one particular enthusiast that has a practice that really grinds my gears. He's got names for every single vehicle in the fleet.

None of the vehicles in the fleet are officially named. That's literally why we have fleet numbers.
 

Jordan Adam

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Amusing! I had 856 last week on Rathos and was photographed by two bus paparazzi on cycles and another who had parked in a bus stop on the A8 to get a photo from the central reservation.

The level of bus enthusiasm seems to be much lower in South Wales where I'm from/drove for 10 years so this whole business of 'celebrity buses' and enthusiasts getting out on their cars and bikes to photo a particular bus on an unusual working is all new to me if a bit bemusing. Since moving here I'm surprised by how many people are into the hobby and how seriously they take it - particularly the whole Lothian/First rivalry.

Edinburgh in particularly seems to have a higher number of enthusiasts than most places although not to tar everyone with the same brush "Lothian veg" do have somewhat of a reputation. Going over to a central reservation is rather excessive and dangerous however!

Theres one particular enthusiast that has a practice that really grinds my gears. He's got names for every single vehicle in the fleet.

None of the vehicles in the fleet are officially named. That's literally why we have fleet numbers.

That's not a unique thing, a few years back i started calling Stagecoach 16948 "Chuggy" as a joke due to it's horrendously rough engine idle (see link) and poor reliability. It's gotten to the point now where many of the people at Stagecoach here also call it Chuggy... Naming every bus in the fleet is a bit sad though.
 

DunsBus

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Said photos are still visible on Flickr. I can see why management weren't pleased about it.

Interestingly he has a different recollection of events in the comments here.

Yes, he still maintains his innocence to this day. The official story is that he was told, more or less, to eff off (not these exact words, but you get my drift!) when he turned up at Seafield that Sunday as management had got wise to his unauthorised visits and weren't happy about them, not least with the photo of 970 being broken up.

It's easy to see why Lothian Country 1029 was carted off to Dalton's for dismantling almost immediately after its accident, so that no-one could get photos of it and post them online as happened with Olympian 970.
 

cnjb8

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It's a slang term for a bus or rail enthusiast.
Thank you :)

Sometimes when enthusiasts stand outside TrentBartons Langley Mill depot and take photos which they then post on Facebook (you can see right into it from the street), they get called 'veg' in the comments. When one Facebook page posted a picture of a brand new Cotgrave Enviro200 MMCs taken from public ground, they received backlash and felt obligated to take it down. I never really saw why they felt like they had to take it down, when it was taken from public grounds.
 

CN04NRJ

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Might be a stupid question but what does veg mean?

Don't know how widely it's used - but I've taken veg as a descriptive of the more undesirable parts of the enthusiast community. Those who don't wash, have an unkempt appearance and do things like trespass on the railway/into bus depots to take pictures or notes.

Following on from some posts in the "West Lothian Buses" thread... I thought it would be fitting to set up a new thread discussing bus enthusiast etiquette, specifically when it comes to taking photos at depots. It would also be interesting to hear how company policy varies at different operators regarding taking photos of vehicle inside the depot etc.

In Cardiff they were fairly liberal, I don't want to name names or posts but some of very senior management were somewhat enthusiastic themselves - for example the company repainted two vehicles for the CTPG and ran one of them (the open top VR WTG360T) on a summer service 6 to Cardiff Bay. They were also happy for me/other drivers to take buses to local bus rallies and for enthusiasts to visit the depot to take photos as long as it was pre arranged and they adhered to whatever restrictions were asked.

Up here I'm hesitant to give an opinion as I've only lived here for 6 months but in short I'm extremely cautious about what I discuss/post online unless the information is already in the public domain in some form.
 

OmniCity999

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Edinburgh in particularly seems to have a higher number of enthusiasts than most places although not to tar everyone with the same brush "Lothian veg" do have somewhat of a reputation. Going over to a central reservation is rather excessive and dangerous however!



That's not a unique thing, a few years back i started calling Stagecoach 16948 "Chuggy" as a joke due to it's horrendously rough engine idle (see link) and poor reliability. It's gotten to the point now where many of the people at Stagecoach here also call it Chuggy... Naming every bus in the fleet is a bit sad though.

its not just the buses... all the trams, vans and some employees cars!

cringe
 

Jordan Adam

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Yes, he still maintains his innocence to this day. The official story is that he was told, more or less, to eff off (not these exact words, but you get my drift!) when he turned up at Seafield that Sunday as management had got wise to his unauthorised visits and weren't happy about them, not least with the photo of 970 being broken up.

It's easy to see why Lothian Country 1029 was carted off to Dalton's for dismantling almost immediately after its accident, so that no-one could get photos of it and post them online as happened with Olympian 970.

I see he also has a photo of a Dart being cut up, not sure what he thought he was doing entering a depot unauthorised. I won't name names but similar incidents have happened more recently at certain First depots, specifically in the Yorkshire region.

Don't know how widely it's used - but I've taken veg as a descriptive of the more undesirable parts of the enthusiast community. Those who don't wash, have an unkempt appearance and do things like trespass on the railway/into bus depots to take pictures or notes.

It can, however normally calling someone a veg is just a joke, there's no negative connotations to it really.

In Cardiff they were fairly liberal, I don't want to name names or posts but some of very senior management were somewhat enthusiastic themselves - for example the company repainted two vehicles for the CTPG and ran one of them (the open top VR WTG360T) on a summer service 6 to Cardiff Bay. They were also happy for me/other drivers to take buses to local bus rallies and for enthusiasts to visit the depot to take photos as long as it was pre arranged and they adhered to whatever restrictions were asked.

Up here I'm hesitant to give an opinion as I've only lived here for 6 months but in short I'm extremely cautious about what I discuss/post online unless the information is already in the public domain in some form.

Lothian are typically seen as one of the operators who are less friendly to enthusiasts (despite the fact they hold events). I think it goes down to the fact that they're quite strict, the whole palaver regarding GDPR didn't help them either.

First and Stagecoach seem to vary between different opcos but are usually surprisingly liberal.

its not just the buses... all the trams, vans and some employees cars!

cringe

Oh dear... Maybe more of a fruit rather than a veg!
 
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