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Class 345 progress

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JN114

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The notices do not reflect current HAL policy and are nearly a decade out of date; photography is permitted on all platforms at Heathrow, although the usual common sense guidance about not taking photographs of staff or CCTV etc. applies.

Fair enough, can only advise on what the signage says.
 
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TFN

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The notices do not reflect current HAL policy and are nearly a decade out of date; photography is permitted on all platforms at Heathrow, although the usual common sense guidance about not taking photographs of staff or CCTV etc. applies.


The notices on the platforms are relatively new (2 years) as the stations went under rebranding from Heathrow Express to HAL Rail.

I've always seen staff stop people taking pictures there.
 

Peter Mugridge

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The newer posters say no flash photography while the older ones say no photography

There are some brand new posters that include the "face coverings" bit which include "no photography" further down ( unless those are several separate bit placed closely together to look like a single poster? )
 

iphone76

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Does anyone know how the 345s have been behaving over on the West after 3/4 days of taking over from the 360s? I'm guessing no news on here is good news?
 

sharpley

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A 345 was moved from Worksop to Old Dalby earlier today, think it was 345045 but I wasn't close so don't quote me on that. Saw it reversing out of Melton station after the loco ran around for the final leg towards Asfordby
 

simple simon

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The notices do not reflect current HAL policy and are nearly a decade out of date; photography is permitted on all platforms at Heathrow, although the usual common sense guidance about not taking photographs of staff or CCTV etc. applies.
That may be the official line but as one of the photos at the tweet show, their signage still includes a prohibition against photography - and this signage looks to be ultra-recent, as it includes a sign saying that everyone must wear a face mask!

In our conversation I made it quite clear that my desire was only to show the train at that specific station (T5), and if they had been watching me they would have seen how I was not filming security equipment or the staff.

Unfortunately there are not many signs on the platform detailing its location - perhaps because it was felt that people would already know this. This is a situation that might work here but would be a recipe for much confusion (and worse) if it applied at all stations.
 
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73128

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I have taken pictures recently at T5 of both class 360/2 and 345s without any objection, although given the signage and past issues I was trying to be discreet in doing so.
 

goldenarrow

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There are some brand new posters that include the "face coverings" bit which include "no photography" further down ( unless those are several separate bit placed closely together to look like a single poster? )
They are 'new' vinyls just with hastily copied and pasted components from existing ones to incorporate Covid-19 related warnings.
That may be the official line but as one of the photos at the tweet show, their signage still includes a prohibition against photography - and this signage looks to be ultra-recent, as it includes a sign saying that everyone must wear a face mask!

In our conversation I made it quite clear that my desire was only to show the train at that specific station (T5), and if they had been watching me they would have seen how I was not filming security equipment or the staff.

Unfortunately there are not many signs on the platform detailing its location - perhaps because it was felt that people would already know this. This is a situation that might work here but would be a recipe for much confusion (and worse) if it applied at all stations.

The signage you photographed in your Tweet have all bar one or two of their components copied over from existing notices which means some of the outdated have been copied over too. Flash photography is the only component that would apply in this casual context but it’s not the only place in the airport where this has been carried through much further

The are some HAL Rail Operations personnel who have been posting photos off duty of 345’s at T5 and a well known blogger both of whom I’m sure haven’t gone through the time consuming rigmarole of obtaining a press permit because their not even eligible!

Just to be clear, I’m not encouraging anyone to have an argument with airport staff, they are only enforcing the operating rules they are told about so don’t have an insight into wider policy. Simon wasn’t doing anything wrong here, he was likely challenged as a result of a misunderstanding of operating guidelines.

IMO a sustained friendly approach in these situations is always helpful, even explaining that since your were passsing through the airport, you wanted a memento of your travels in London for example. As Simon has detailed in his experience, that doesn’t always work (I have been challenged, in full uniform mind), but it’s not quite what it appears at first sight.
 
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matt_world2004

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I've been coming home in uniform when taking pictures with a mobile phone. Maybe if you have been challenged taking pictures. You have been challenged by the bigger the camera , the bigger the threat brigade . When someone undertaking hostile reconnessiance is going to use a cheap a camera as possible. With a disregard for composition.
 

JonathanH

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Does anyone know how the 345s have been behaving over on the West after 3/4 days of taking over from the 360s? I'm guessing no news on here is good news?
Looking at RTT for Heathrow Central, it seems to me that they have had a few problems with units delayed at either end, particularly at Heathrow Terminal 5 when the driver switches ends. There have been a few trips missed and unit swaps also but nothing like the thirty minute delays at the transition point they had in the first one or two weeks.

Updating the post on Saturday:

There seem to be two issues - delays at Heathrow after a stop, particularly at Terminal 5 and delays at the transition point

As an example of the former from today's service:

9T55 1132 London Paddington to Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 arrived at Heathrow Terminal 5 on time (1206, booked out again at 1222)
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P63211/2020-09-19/detailed

9P57 1222 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington then departed fifteen minutes late at 1237 running non stop into Paddington from Hayes & Harlington (albeit behind the 1248 Hayes shuttle).
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P62853/2020-09-19/detailed

In this instance, does the problem arise when the driver changes end at Heathrow or immediately before departure?

The same unit was then taken out of service at Heathrow Central on a later trip. It arrived on time at Heathrow Central (1630) and then went no further, blocking platform 1 until 1718 when it went empty to Old Oak Depot.

9T91 1602 London Paddington to Heathrow Airport Terminal 5
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P63265/2020-09-19/detailed

Another unit came empty from Old Oak Depot (via Paddington) as 5T03 for 9P05 1822 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington

There have been two example of the latter on Saturday

9P61 1252 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington appears to have been delayed on transition at Heathrow Airport Junction by seven minutes:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P62862/2020-09-19/detailed

9P77 1452 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington appears to have been delayed on transition at Heathrow Airport Junction by thirteen minutes and ran fast to Paddington from Hayes & Harlington
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P62898/2020-09-19/detailed

9P89 1622 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington appears to have been delayed between Heathrow Central and Heathrow Airport Junction by thirteen minutes
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P62925/2020-09-19/detailed

Having noted these, it should be pointed out that most journeys do run without event.
 
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Horizon22

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Does anyone know how the 345s have been behaving over on the West after 3/4 days of taking over from the 360s? I'm guessing no news on here is good news?

I am reliably informed that all 360s have now been withdrawn (available as backup) and that all services to T5 are now formed of 9-car 345s which have been running generally well (comparative to their record over past few months).
 

JonathanH

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I am reliably informed that all 360s have now been withdrawn (available as backup) and that all services to T5 are now formed of 9-car 345s which have been running generally well (comparative to their record over past few months).
Modern Railways suggests that the 360s go off lease at the end of September. Assuming it runs, the last run of a Class 360/2 for TfL Rail (empty) could be tonight on 5Z36 1949 Old Oak Common Emu Depot to Heathrow Airport Terminal 4 and 5Z37 2033 Heathrow Airport Terminal 4 to Old Oak Common Emu Depot as the workings aren't (currently) scheduled next week.

TfL Rail have have lost at least one round trip to Heathrow four days out of five this week so 345s are still having some difficulties but they are reliable enough for the 360s not to be needed.

Today's culprit appears to have been 345061 - working 9P61 1252 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington - lost 13 minutes at Heathrow Tunnel Junction - taken out of service at Paddington to go to Old Oak Depot - a trip missed and a replacement unit did the next cycle from 9T83 1502 London Paddington to Heathrow Airport Terminal 5

It should however be noted that most services have been running to time.
 
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Horizon22

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TfL Rail have have lost at least one round trip to Heathrow four days out of five this week so 345s are still having some difficulties but they are reliable enough for the 360s not to be needed.

Today's culprit appears to have been 345061 - working 9P61 1252 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington - lost 13 minutes at Heathrow Tunnel Junction - taken out of service at Paddington to go to Old Oak Depot - a trip missed and a replacement unit did the next cycle from 9T83 1502 London Paddington to Heathrow Airport Terminal 5

It should however be noted that most services have been running to time.

As I posted my above, it still appears they're having varying ETCS / GSMR problems with a few cancellations so perhaps cursed it a bit.
 

mickey

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Seems the 345 introduction at Heathrow hasn’t gone smoothly at all. Made a return trip to the airport today. The train into Heathrow applied the emergency brakes after leaving the mainline and refused to enter the tunnel... and an attempted return tonight got stuck just before arrival into T5 and required resetting, which delayed departure 25+ mins and screwed any connections people might have had because of course they then ran express into Paddington. Heathrow platform staff were lovely as always but said it’s happening on more rotations than not, but TfL are refusing to bring the 360s back, so airport staff and customers are being screwed with delays on most journeys - long in aggregate but not enough to claim DR. Anyone know how long till they fix it?
 
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JonathanH

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TfL are refusing to bring the 360s back, so airport staff and customers are being screwed with delays on most journeys
TfL can't bring the 360s back and there shouldn't be a need to do so.

It isn't 'most journeys' when there are delays but it seems there is at least one trip missed each day. 37 trips today, three have been late into Terminal 5, one other late departure after turn around and seemingly two further delays at the transition point eastwards.

That seems to be the sort of performance when lessons need to be learnt but not enough to lead to the withdrawal of the fleet.

I note that 345028 and 345002 have been doing test runs each evening into Heathrow over the last week so perhaps another software update is being tested.
 
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Roger B

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I noted 345067 at Stratford yesterday (sunday) evening. It was heading towards Ilford just as I pulled in - and I wasn't able to tell whether it was running in service or not, or whether as a FLU or SLU. Could someone please confirm 067s current formation, please - FLU or SLU? Many thanks
 

JonathanH

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I noted 345067 at Stratford yesterday (sunday) evening. It was heading towards Ilford just as I pulled in - and I wasn't able to tell whether it was running in service or not, or whether as a FLU or SLU. Could someone please confirm 067s current formation, please - FLU or SLU? Many thanks
345067 is currently a tunnel test unit formed of 9-cars. It will have been running under a possession. The TfL Rail passenger service between Liverpool Street and Shenfield was running on the main lines between Bethnal Green and Ilford yesterday.
 

Roger B

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345067 is currently a tunnel test unit formed of 9-cars. It will have been running under a possession. The TfL Rail passenger service between Liverpool Street and Shenfield was running on the main lines between Bethnal Green and Ilford yesterday.

Many thanks Jonathan.
 

Snow1964

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Liverpool Street platforms 16-18 contract variation at a cost of £94.78m has been signed off (page 17 on attached TfL finance papers for this weeks meeting)


Seems to me a lot of money to remove a track, alter some points and build a bit of platform edge wall. Doesn’t say what the variation is, or what timescale is, but if the funds needed to be approved, must be intending to spend money soon. I assume when done the remaining 7-car can become 9-car 345s
 

Gulf1159

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Liverpool Street platforms 16-18 contract variation at a cost of £94.78m has been signed off (page 17 on attached TfL finance papers for this weeks meeting)


Seems to me a lot of money to remove a track, alter some points and build a bit of platform edge wall. Doesn’t say what the variation is, or what timescale is, but if the funds needed to be approved, must be intending to spend money soon. I assume when done the remaining 7-car can become 9-car 345s

Its been approved and MTR are doing the platform work at Liverpool Street. Work starts in this December Christmas shutdown. Will be commissioned in April with a planned 345 FLU operation from May 2021. Other than the Christmas blockade of Liverpool Street that will be the only long term closure during the work!! (Other than a odd weekend)
 

kevin_roche

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The latest monthly report from Mark Wild to the London Assembly Transport Committee is now available on the TFL web site.


There are some stats on the train performance up to the 19th Sept where I'm guessing they have merged data from the FLUs with those of RLUs to improve the figures.

TfL Rail services between Shenfield and Liverpool St and Paddington to Heathrow and Reading continue to operate with high reliability. In the four weeks ending 19 September, 96.9% of trains met the Public Performance Measure (PPM), exceeding the target of 95%.

From 14 September, TfL Rail services between Paddington and Heathrow have been operated entirely by the Class 345 Elizabeth line trains. The units inherited from the previous Heathrow Connect service have been withdrawn with customers benefiting from much longer and more spacious trains with full air conditioning and modern customer information.
 

cactustwirly

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The latest monthly report from Mark Wild to the London Assembly Transport Committee is now available on the TFL web site.


There are some stats on the train performance up to the 19th Sept where I'm guessing they have merged data from the FLUs with those of RLUs to improve the figures.

Those figures are quite surprising tbh.
Anecdotally, TfL Rail are not particularly reliable, seen quite a few delays because of train faults.
Day to day, services often run a few minutes late as well.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Any chance someone could say which 345s are on TFL Rail West in service, TFL Rail East in service and Elizabeth line branded and out of service / testing
 

JonathanH

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Any chance someone could say which 345s are on TFL Rail West in service, TFL Rail East in service and Elizabeth line branded and out of service / testing
Not much different from when I last posted a list on 8 September other than the move of 345020 and 345029 from the East Side to the West side and 345002 and 345028 currently being used for Heathrow testing each evening.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-345-progress.120221/page-122#post-4759772

7-car units working out of Old Oak Depot on Reading / Hayes services (14)
345006/07/13/20/29/40/44/47/49/51/52/57/63/64

7-car units working out of Ilford (16)
345003/05/08/09/10/11/12/14/15/16/17/22/38/39/42/56

9-car units working out of Old Oak Depot - used on Heathrow / Hayes services between 29 July and 13 September and Heathrow services since 14 September (13)
345004/30/34/35/43/55/59/61/62/65/66/68/70

9-car units at Old Oak Depot, seemingly spare until Reading workings resume (8)
345021/27/28/37/53/54/58/60

The rest - all 9-car, yet to carry passengers (19)
345001/19/45/46 Old Dalby
345002/23/26 Old Oak Depot
345018 Ilford
345048 Worksop
345024/25/31/32/33/36/41/50/67/69 Tunnel units

345002/28 are currently being used for Heathrow testing.

Don't know about Elizabeth Line branding sorry.
 
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Roger B

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What's the latest story with FLU resumption on the Reading's - what's outstanding to fix, and whn are they planned to re-start?
 

JonathanH

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What's the latest story with FLU resumption on the Reading's - what's outstanding to fix, and whn are they planned to re-start?
Purely from an observational viewpoint, there doesn't seem to be any reason for urgency on getting 9-cars back onto Reading services particularly given the continued use of 7-car units on Hayes shuttles.

No overnight runs to Reading have happened since 4 September. I imagine attention is still being given to getting the 9-car 345s to work reliably on Heathrow services.

For the record, they actually had quite a good day on Heathrow services yesterday:
9T15 0632 London Paddington to Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 lost 11 minutes at Ealing Broadway
9P37 0952 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington was delayed 21 minutes at Heathrow Tunnel Junction.
but all other workings ran without substantial delay (albeit with the unit off 9P37 swapping later at Paddington with a fresh unit between 9P61 / 9T71 (at 1330))

One round trip was lost this morning with 9T11 0602 London Paddington to Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 being terminated at Heathrow Central, running empty to Heathrow Airport Terminal 4 and returning to service on 9P25 0822 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington which started at Heathrow Central.
 
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FlippyFF

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Realtime Trains shows that Class 345s will do test runs between Acton Mainline and Tottenham Court Road this Sunday 11 October: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/PDX/2020-10-11/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

They seem to be using the tunnels alternately bidirectionally so one train will use the 'platform A' tunnels to & from TCR whilst the other will use the 'platform B' tunnels.
Some of the runs are from Tottenham Court Road to & from the Westbourne Park carriage sidings - will this be to test the auto-reverse feature of the CBTC?

Simon
 
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