Wales is to ban travel from COVID hotspots

[WelshBluebird]

It would be unwise to be in Wales with any sort of English accent from now on.

Exaggerating like that is not going to help your case.

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't fancy it, especially in areas where anti-English sentiment can get militant and aggressive.

In some way it is quite amusing that you think such a feeling is held by more than a tiny minority of people.

 

[adc82140]

I don't drive and haven't had to read to understand much of this stuff since I passed my test 12 years ago, but my understanding was that the registered keeper, whilst not the owner (although often is), is the person responsible for the car (e.g. for chasing up things like accidents or penalty points etc).

As such they seem to be a fairly good person to use as an idea from where the car is "based". Sure they may not be the driver but I think it is fair assumption to make that if they are not the driver, the driver would have had to pick up the car from the registered keeper.

Again, I know there are exceptions, but for 90% of the population the registered keeper and driver will either be the same person, or will live in the same area.

In terms of passengers - again obviously there will be exceptions but you could probably make a fairly reasonable assumption that passengers have traveled from the same area. Again, I know that isn't always the case and there are obvious exceptions you can bring up, but as a rough guide for the police to be able to start a conversation it is probably good enough!

If you drive a company car, the registered keeper is the leasing company. It takes them upwards of 3 weeks to process even a speeding fine, so the visitor to Wales will be long gone before the Welsh police get any sort of response.

 

[WelshBluebird]

But so many people have company cars, or are PCP or drive hired vehicles that information isn't going to tell the police anything useful.
Plus, the registered keeper isn't necessarily the owner anyway, and it isn't necessarily the owner or registered keeper driving it.

If you drive a company car, the registered keeper is the leasing company. It takes them upwards of 3 weeks to process a speeding fine, so the visitor to Wales will be long gone before the Welsh police get any sort of response.

And as I said, I am fully aware there are exceptions.
However for the majority of cases, it is good enough.
Company cars and the like are a small minority of cases.

 

[HSTEd]

Exaggerating like that is not going to help your case.

Easily the most practical way to enforce this measure is to sweep up anyone who looks un-Welsh.
That is inevitably what will happen if it is enforced at all.

 

[bramling]

Exaggerating like that is not going to help your case.



In some way it is quite amusing that you think such a feeling is held by more than a tiny minority of people.

I can't say I've ever found much hostility in Wales - in fact I tend to find the general rule of thumb is West Wales = don't seem to give a stuff about anything, North & Mid Wales = people are more polite than in most of England, South Wales = can be a bit off-ish but that's just their way in general. The only area I've found people to be unpleasant at times is around Newport.

Seeing how some of the English "weekend break brigade" behave in places like Llangollen or Betws-y-coed I can see why there might be some localised hostility in some of the honeypot places.

 

[Journeyman]

In some way it is quite amusing that you think such a feeling is held by more than a tiny minority of people.

An act of violence only takes one person, who could easily be emboldened if they're being told that everyone over the border is a threat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An act of violence only takes one person, who could easily be emboldened if they're being told that everyone over the border is a threat.

Who's telling them that? All they want is for England to follow the same legal restrictions as Wales on local lockdown areas, i.e. if you're in one you don't leave.

 

[Crossover]

And as I said, I am fully aware there are exceptions.
However for the majority of cases, it is good enough.
Company cars and the like are a small minority of cases.

Company cars a minority, yes. However I would imagine many cars are on finance and if their registered keeper is the banks then it isn't going to be helpful. Also hire cars, but again, a minority case

 

[adc82140]

And as I said, I am fully aware there are exceptions.
However for the majority of cases, it is good enough.
Company cars and the like are a small minority of cases.

If there are exceptions, the rule is unenforceable.

This will amount to effectively asking people nicely not to come in (which the majority will observe) and making an example of a few people at honeypot locations.

 

[WelshBluebird]

If there are exceptions, the rule is unenforceable.

This will amount to effectively asking people nicely not to come in (which the majority will observe) and making an example of a few people at honeypot locations.

Not quite sure what you are saying because it reads to me as if you are saying that is unenforceable but it will work?

An act of violence only takes one person, who could easily be emboldened if they're being told that everyone over the border is a threat.

Easily the most practical way to enforce this measure is to sweep up anyone who looks un-Welsh.
That is inevitably what will happen if it is enforced at all.

You get idiots anywhere.
I've been barred from a club in England before because my driving license was bilingual (as ones issues in Wales are) and he claimed that meant it was fake.
I've had friends abused and assaulted in England because they dared to be from another country or dared to have a different skin colour.
I've had friends jumped because they looked at another person "wrongly".

Not sure that you both trying to claim that such behaviour is limited to parts of Wales where there is an anti English feeling makes any sense when such behaviour can happen anywhere to anyone, including likely in the city / town / village you are in right now. Wales is not any more unsafe for an English person than many parts of England are and trying to claim otherwise is just hyperbole and stupid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not quite sure what you are saying because it reads to me as if you are saying that is unenforceable but it will work?

It is enforceable in the same manner as PFs on a railway with open stations. You do random checks and hit people with a hefty penalty "pour encourager les autres".

 

[bramling]

Not quite sure what you are saying because it reads to me as if you are saying that is unenforceable but it will work?

It probably will work as *most* of the upset will be in honeypot locations.

Someone coming from England to somewhere genuinely remote (and there's enough of those in Wales!) probably won't have any problems if they don't encounter a checkpoint, and in such places I can't see locals either noticing or caring providing they don't draw attention to themselves.

So the moral of the story is probably don't all flock to Snowdon or Bala Lake!

 

[Journeyman]

Oh, I'm not singling out the Welsh. Other idiots are available.

(Sorry, I'm obviously not implying all Welsh people are idiots.)

 

[bramling]

Oh, I'm not singling out the Welsh. Other idiots are available.

Some of the "cyclists stop panting virus through our village" seen in rural England was worse.

I do remain of the opinion that some of the honeypot locations had a fair point in being concerned about being over-run like we saw at times earlier in the year, not just from a Covid perspective but from the disruption caused to local life both in terms of congestion and shops being stripped of supplies. However it seems incredulous for people to have taken exception to people cycling along a road that happens to pass through somewhere, that seems plain unpleasant.

Of course the solution to all this is to get back to normal life, so that we don't see untypical spikes in numbers as particular locations.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't know about the why's and wherefore's of Drakeford's plan and whether it is right or proper etc.

I've been to Wales countless times - my best mate lived near Bangor, mother in law lived in mid Wales, been across the bridge countless times to go mountain biking. I have rarely, if ever, encountered anti-English sentiment. The apocryphal lines about people in pubs switching to Welsh when a stranger walks in..... never happens.

Enforcement can and has been done by the Police. ANPR will pick up the registered owner immediately. The likelihood being that if it's not a locally registered car, you may get pulled. Company cars (which are a minority) have the registered owner as the lessor but if they're on finance, then it will be the registered owner.

Now are they going to pull every car? In the same way that they will ask every rail passenger? No. As @Bletchleyite says...

It is enforceable in the same manner as PFs on a railway with open stations. You do random checks and hit people with a hefty penalty "pour encourager les autres".

The potential to get stopped and fined is the strategy that will be employed, and yes, as @bramling suggests, they will be targeting certain honeypot locations. So if you drive to Ogwen Cottage on the A5, then there's a chance you'll get a friendly welcome from the local constabulary. However, drive over the tops from Oswestry on the myriad of roads towards Llangollen and go walking round there, and you'll be unlucky.

 

[PTR 444]

So if Wales is being locked away from the rest of the UK, how will it work with cross border train services? For example, would anyone travelling on a direct train from Shrewsbury to Chester be required to sit in a separate carriage from someone making a local journey from Chirk to Wrexham, or would English passengers just be required to go via Crewe instead?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The huge network of informants they have built up over the past several months.

It would be unwise to be in Wales with any sort of English accent from now on.

Some Welsh Minister was on Today this morning and said that's how the Welsh lockdowns are enforced, mainly be people snitching on their neighbours or reporting people they don't recognise in their village.

 

[bramling]

Some Welsh Minister was on Today this morning and said that's how the Welsh lockdowns are enforced, mainly be people snitching on their neighbours or reporting people they don't recognise in their village.

Not good. This sort of behaviour shouldn't really be encouraged. When this is all over we're going to be left with a sour culture in places.

I really dislike curtain twitching and snitching, which tends to be based on neurosis rather then a genuine likelihood of something untoward occurring. It simply leads to people doing perfectly legitimate things being viewed with suspicion just for being "out of place" in a locality.

 

[DB]

I suspect it will be police going round cars in honeypot areas like Snowdonia. It's presumably pretty readily viable to check where a car is registered.

Can't see them having the resources to do much of this - it'll be yet another to add to the list of largely unenforceable knee-jerk laws.

 

[bramling]

Can't see them having the resources to do much of this - it'll be yet another to add to the list of largely unenforceable knee-jerk laws.

I don't know, there was enough of it seen last time -- though of course a few headlines at a handful of honeypots doesn't mean it was widespread.

I'd be more bothered about being keyed though, in certain locations.

 

[Darandio]

• A huge number of informants are waiting to grass on the English.
• Avoid Wales if you have an English accent.
• The militant and aggressive Welsh are ready to protect their borders.

You lot are starting to crack up.

 

[adc82140]

I'd be more bothered about being keyed though, in certain locations.

Why? Unless you're a spotter of DVLA registrations you won't know where each one comes from. In any case many used cars are bought via national dealer networks. Mine was bought in Bournemouth, but was transported down from Scotland somewhere, carried a Scottish originated plate, and now carries my personal Northern Irish plate.

 

[Journeyman]

Not good. This sort of behaviour shouldn't really be encouraged. When this is all over we're going to be left with a sour culture in places.

I really dislike curtain twitching and snitching, which tends to be based on neurosis rather then a genuine likelihood of something untoward occurring. It simply leads to people doing perfectly legitimate things being viewed with suspicion just for being "out of place" in a locality.

I think you're absolutely right - this is going to be the most toxic legacy of the pandemic, and I find it profoundly depressing. I decided from the start that I'd follow the rules to the best of my ability, which I have done, but there's no way I was going to start snooping on others, jumping to conclusions or judging what anyone else is up to. I'm not going to police these rules - it's not my business.

I was a very hardcore fundamentalist Christian when I was younger. I've had my fill of judging people and telling them what to do, and I decided some time ago that I was never, ever going to do it again. I now consider privacy, freedom and autonomy to be absolutely sacrosanct.

 

[Carlisle]

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't fancy it, especially in areas where anti-English sentiment can get militant and aggressive.

Absolutely, & if Wales’s leaders are going to pursue policies that merely stoke up such sentiment even further, they should’ve at least campaigned & been elected on a nationalist ticket first, like Nickola Sturgeon

 

[bramling]

Why? Unless you're a spotter of DVLA registrations you won't know where each one comes from. In any case many used cars are bought via national dealer networks. Mine was bought in Bournemouth, but was transported down from Scotland somewhere, carried a Scottish originated plate, and now carries my personal Northern Irish plate.

There are other identifiers on cars, though as you say these can be misleading. My two BMWs have garage names / towns on the registration plates, on my older one the front one is Chesterfield whilst the rear one is my hometown in Hertfordshire, whilst on my newer one the front one is Warwick whilst the rear one is Exeter! They'd all point to England though. Then there's things like CPZ discs, in my case this would point quite clearly to my home-town.

 

[Journeyman]

Absolutely, & if Wales’s leaders are going to pursue policies that merely stoke up such sentiment even further, they should’ve at least campaigned & been elected on a nationalist ticket first, like Nickola Sturgeon

I know, this is the sort of thing you'd expect from PC, but certainly not Labour, and sadly I think it'll have Sturgeon watching with interest, trying to work out what she can get away with.

 

[Chester1]

It was a very good of idea for the UK wide furlough scheme to be replaced by an English only Job Support scheme with Barnett Formula consquentials paid to Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments. It means that England won't be paying for them to shutter their economies while they take the moral high ground. They can't replicate the English scheme on a like for like basis without topping it up at the expense of public service funding because their tighter measures will mean more applicants.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why? Unless you're a spotter of DVLA registrations you won't know where each one comes from. In any case many used cars are bought via national dealer networks. Mine was bought in Bournemouth, but was transported down from Scotland somewhere, carried a Scottish originated plate, and now carries my personal Northern Irish plate.

Particularly not Liverpool, because there's quite a mix there. Manchester DVLA office is the one that's relevant, so you get an M prefix. However, I know at least some Scousers who won't buy a car in Liverpool to avoid getting that, particularly the risk of getting MU because it could be associated with Manchester United, so there's a fairly large number of P prefix (Preston office) cars there.

 

[bramling]

It was a very good of idea for the UK wide furlough scheme to be replaced by an English only Job Support scheme with Barnett Formula consquentials paid to Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments. It means that England won't be paying for them to shutter their economies while they take the moral high ground. They can't replicate the English scheme on a like for like basis without topping it up at the expense of public service funding because their tighter measures will mean more applicants.

Yes English taxpayers shouldn't be subsidising a shuttering approach. If they want to do it then they pay for it, that's only fair.

 

[trebor79]

Crikey. I never thought I'd see the day we were talking about checkpoints in our free and fair country.
Just stop and think about that for a moment.