Wales is to ban travel from COVID hotspots

[MalaiseForever]

It's not a reasonable request. If he wants to impose law on Wales it's his job to do it, not to shout Boris to do it and to take the flak.

It's a reasonable thing to do, but it's not reasonable to shout about Boris not doing it.

Do the devolved powers cover border controls? I can’t see how he has the legal power to do it

 

[Mag_seven]

Do the devolved powers cover border controls? I can’t see how he has the legal power to do it

I think a review needs to be carried out as to exactly how the devolved nations are exercising their powers in all of this. I'm convinced that they are overstepping their bounds in many areas.

 

[Huntergreed]

I think a review needs to be carried out as to exactly how the devolved nations are exercising their powers in all of this. I'm convinced that they are overstepping their bounds in many areas.

I’m sure any abuse of devolved powers will be ignored completely under the guise of “keeping people safe”, given it’s such an “unprecedented” time (I know! Who could imagine a virus circulating in the population? That’s never happened before has it?)

 

[adc82140]

Just as I said....

Police Federation of England and Wales says Welsh travel ban is 'unenforceable' | ITV News

The Police Federation of England and Wales says the proposed Welsh travel ban by ministers is 'unenforceable'. | ITV News Wales

www.itv.com

The Police Federation of England and Wales says the proposed Welsh travel ban by ministers is 'unenforceable'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why can't the Police just pack in playing politics and just do their best?

 

[Chester1]

Why can't the Police just pack in playing politics and just do their best?

They need to try to give people realistic expectations of what they will be able to do. They are trying to cover themselves when people inevitably slip through and they are blamed.

 

[Bantamzen]

Why can't the Police just pack in playing politics and just do their best?

Because they are being asked things they are not funded for, and that frankly should not be a priority.

"Hello is that the Police? There's someone trying to break into my house, please send help!"
"Sorry, all our officers are on the border stopping people travelling from A to B".

Extreme maybe, but full enforcement could actually see this happen.

 

[Mag_seven]

Why can't the Police just pack in playing politics and just do their best?

You cant just pile on enforcement of new regulation after new regulation onto an already stretched police force. They must be tearing their hair out at this.

 

[Freightmaster]

Why can't the Police just pack in playing politics...?

I actually think they are doing just the opposite - making it clear that they don't want
to get dragged into Mark Drakeford's politically motivated game of one-upmanship with
the UK Government regarding travel restrictions to/from England.


'Policing by consent' requires the police to consent, not just the public!



MARK

 

[adc82140]

This is why it's unenforceable :

Example- person whose car is registered to an address in Liverpool is pulled over. The driver states that since the summer they have been staying with a friend in Devon. This may or may not be true. The police have no right to question your living arrangements.

Example 2- Someone from Liverpool wants to go to Wales. So they get a lift with a friend who lives in Berkshire. There is no way that the police know this car is carrying a Liverpudlian.

 

[Dai Corner]

Note that the Police Federation is the organisation representing the lower ranks., similar to a Trade Union. Their view is not the official view of the forces. I've yet to hear what the Chief Constables say. I'd imagine some officers would welcome some easy duties stopping cars on the border and offering 'advice' or issuing fixed penalty notices, especially if it involved overtime.

The huge hole in the proposals seems to be that people would still be allowed to travel from Welsh non-hotspots to English hotspots and potentially bring the virus home with them.

 

[Crossover]

Clearly I imagined my visit to a pub in Wales a few years back. Little did the ignorant locals know that the girl I was with was a fluent Welsh speaker. As we left she told tham (in Welsh, of course) that she was really happy to have heard what they thought of us and wished them a pleasant evening - the looks on their faces was a picture.

I've heard a similar story via a colleague involving a shopkeeper who started talking to another customer in Welsh (after colleague spoke in English) essentially saying to the Welsh speaking customer that they'd get something preferential. Sadly for the shopkeeper, colleague understands (though doesn't speak) Welsh and made it known that they would like the same treatment that they were offering the Welsh speaking customer

 

[Yew]

Residents of tier 3 areas in England should not be permitted to travel anywhere outside their locality, other than for essential journeys, and travel into these areas should also be confined to essential journeys only. That is what Bojo is refusing to implement.

How many cases do you actually think that will stop, and at what societal cost?

 

[DB]

Do the devolved powers cover border controls? I can’t see how he has the legal power to do it

No, (nor in the case of Scotland).

Also, England and Wales form a single legal jusrisdiction (Scotland is separate and has its own).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Clearly I imagined my visit to a pub in Wales a few years back. Little did the ignorant locals know that the girl I was with was a fluent Welsh speaker. As we left she told tham (in Welsh, of course) that she was really happy to have heard what they thought of us and wished them a pleasant evening - the looks on their faces was a picture.

Ok - appreciate it happened in your case. Just that I've heard so many people trot out the line and yet in >20 years going out in such bohemian fleshpots as Llandovery, Bethesda and Pembroke and never had a moment's trouble with an English accent.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Clearly I imagined my visit to a pub in Wales a few years back. Little did the ignorant locals know that the girl I was with was a fluent Welsh speaker. As we left she told tham (in Welsh, of course) that she was really happy to have heard what they thought of us and wished them a pleasant evening - the looks on their faces was a picture.

As I said in reply to someone else - you get idiots everywhere.

What started the conversation was someone earlier in this thread suggesting that those with English accents should "watch themselves" in Wales because they are at a higher risk of being either ratted out to the police, harassed or much worse. Which of course is just rubbish. An English person is just as "at risk" or being attacked or whatever in Wales as they are in England (of course depending on the specific local crime rates). And the idea that somehow it is just Welsh people who can be that way inclined is ludicrous too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think we're ignoring here that the vast majority of England is in tier 1 and thus still allowed into Wales.

 

[bramling]

I think we're ignoring here that the vast majority of England is in tier 1 and thus still allowed into Wales.

The risk is that anyone with an English accent gets treated with suspicion, especially by those seeking to take the law into their own hands (as Drakeford himself intimated was likely).

These sorts of things need to be extremely sensitively handled by the politicians. Thus far this isn’t really proving to be the case.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think we're ignoring here that the vast majority of England is in tier 1 and thus still allowed into Wales.

Things are moving rapidly with more areas of England going to tier 2 today and Wales promising a "circuit breaker" very soon.
We seem to be heading inexorably back into full lockdown across the UK.

 

[DB]

Things are moving rapidly with more areas of England going to tier 2 today and Wales promising a "circuit breaker" very soon.
We seem to be heading inexorably back into full lockdown across the UK.

THe government is clearly panicking - they cannot afford another furlough scheme, but equally if they try full lockdown rules then social unrest is extremely likely as there will be loads more suddenly out of work.

 

[bramling]

THe government is clearly panicking - they cannot afford another furlough scheme, but equally if they try full lockdown rules then social unrest is extremely likely as there will be loads more suddenly out of work.

Yes I sense they're starting to "lose it" - well what little they "had" in the first place at any rate!

This will get out of hand with all the various factions now pulling off in different ways. Just waiting for more from Sturgeon / Drakeford.

I think the way we are heading is either the circuit breaker (the one thing with that is there would perhaps be a bit less pushback over half-term), or the local lockdowns gradually colouring in the whole map and them claiming the science has pulled them in that way.

Trouble definitely brewing.

 

[Bikeman78]

Things are moving rapidly with more areas of England going to tier 2 today and Wales promising a "circuit breaker" very soon.
We seem to be heading inexorably back into full lockdown across the UK.

Yes I've seen on the BBC news that a lockdown is expected across Wales. Makes no difference to me as I'm not allowed to leave Cardiff anyway. What's not clear is whether we'll have any freedom after the lockdown or just go back to the rules as they are today.

 

[John Luxton]

The Police enforced it during lockdown, they can do it again.

It was mainly enforced on the principal routes M4 and A55 / A494. There were high profile pictures and reports in the local press and web sites in particular North Wales Live (Daily Post) and Wales On Line (Western Mail).

However, there are so many border crossings and at least on village on the Shropshire Powys border which has the border running down the middle of the street!

You also have traffic legitimately passing from say Merseyside and Cheshire to Shropshire which has to drive through a sizeable area of Wales from Rossett to Chirk on the A5 / A483 or cutting the corner off and missing Chester going through A494 / A550.

When the main lockdown was lifted in England I did several trips into Shropshire and travelled via Wales. - I didn't see one police car whilst driving. I had my sat nav set so I could show what I was doing if stopped. - I was actually heading to Snailbeach! After a couple of trips there I parked up at Chirk Bank (Shropshire) and walked the Canal towpath to Chirk (Wales) as I wanted to photograph recent clearance work at Chirk Station on the former Glyn Valley Tramway Platform. Whilst standing on the overbridge a police car did drive past and he must have seen me taking photos from the overbridge. Wasn't even curious enough to stop and ask if I was a tourist! I would have had an answer that I take photographs and sell them on line and could show the website. So therefore I was travelling for work - which was supposed to be a legitimate reason. As I live in a Covid Hot Spot I may probably try the same again and see if anything happens.

I think if people stay away from the well known tourist hot spots and keep to the back roads. there will be no problems going in and out of Wales.

Really though this is the UNITED KINGDOM and until Wales and Scotland achieve full independent nationhood travel restrictions (not that I approve of them - I don't) should be set by Westminster.

John

If you are a regular visitor to Wales from a Covid hotspot I think once should take ones cue from Jacob Rees Mogg:

Rees-Mogg attacks Wales travel ban and says Drakeford is 'hard-left'

The senior Conservative attacked Wales' plans for travel restrictions in the Commons

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[daodao]

It was mainly enforced on the principal routes M4 and A55 / A494. There were high profile pictures and reports in the local press and web sites in particular North Wales Live (Daily Post) and Wales On Line (Western Mail).

However, there are so many border crossings and at least on village on the Shropshire Powys border which has the border running down the middle of the street!

You also have traffic legitimately passing from say Merseyside and Cheshire to Shropshire which has to drive through a sizeable area of Wales from Rossett to Chirk on the A5 / A483 or cutting the corner off and missing Chester going through A494 / A550.

When the main lockdown was lifted in England I did several trips into Shropshire and travelled via Wales. - I didn't see one police car whilst driving. I had my sat nav set so I could show what I was doing if stopped. - I was actually heading to Snailbeach! After a couple of trips there I parked up at Chirk Bank (Shropshire) and walked the Canal towpath to Chirk (Wales) as I wanted to photograph recent clearance work at Chirk Station on the former Glyn Valley Tramway Platform. Whilst standing on the overbridge a police car did drive past and he must have seen me taking photos from the overbridge. Wasn't even curious enough to stop and ask if I was a tourist! I would have had an answer that I take photographs and sell them on line and could show the website. So therefore I was travelling for work - which was supposed to be a legitimate reason. As I live in a Covid Hot Spot I may probably try the same again and see if anything happens.

I think if people stay away from the well known tourist hot spots and keep to the back roads. there will be no problems going in and out of Wales.

Really though this is the UNITED KINGDOM and until Wales and Scotland achieve full independent nationhood travel restrictions (not that I approve of them - I don't) should be set by Westminster.

John

If you are a regular visitor to Wales from a Covid hotspot I think once should take ones cue from Jacob Rees Mogg:

Rees-Mogg attacks Wales travel ban and says Drakeford is 'hard-left'

The senior Conservative attacked Wales' plans for travel restrictions in the Commons

www.walesonline.co.uk

The issue, as Drakeford states, is not Wales vs England, but non-essential travel into/out of high incidence areas, to reduce viral spread into less affected areas. This needs to be legally prohibited, including within England, so that it can be enforced; mere advice not to do so is likely to render the tier graded system ineffective. Drakeford is taking a reasonable approach; the problem is that the Westminster government is run by out-of-touch irrational arrogant toffs like Bojo and JRM. Covid regulations are a devolved matter and the Welsh government is fully entitled to set criteria for travel between Wales and high incidence areas in England.

 

[PHILIPE]

The issue, as Drakeford states, is not Wales vs England, but non-essential travel into/out of high incidence areas, to reduce viral spread into less affected areas. This needs to be legally prohibited, including within England, so that it can be enforced; mere advice not to do so is likely to render the tier graded system ineffective. Drakeford is taking a reasonable approach; the problem is that the Westminster government is run by out-of-touch irrational arrogant toffs like Bojo and JRM. Covid regulations are a devolved matter and the Welsh government is fully entitled to set criteria for travel between Wales and high incidence areas in England.

The Westminster Government is whinging but if Bozza had had the courtesy to reply to two letters from MD instead of ignoring them and instead discussed them it might not have come to where we are now

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Westminster Government is whinging but if Bozza had had the courtesy to reply to two letters from MD instead of ignoring them and instead discussed them it might not have come to where we are now

Sending them was out of order as it's none of his business, though I would rather Boris had replied with a two-word response. England does not wish to pursue a policy of legally restricting travel, and other than the short initial lockdown period, unlike Wales and Scotland, has not done so.

If Drakeford wants a law, he needs to make his own.

Drakeford has no right whatsoever to interfere on domestic English matters. Less right than I have as a normal resident of England, indeed, as if he wrote to his Westminster MP, they should simply reply that it's a domestic English matter and they should not interfere either. Same with Sturgeon. It is no different from France asking us to bring in a law asking British people not to go there (to which the answer should be the same and end in "off").

 

[John Luxton]

The issue, as Drakeford states, is not Wales vs England, but non-essential travel into/out of high incidence areas, to reduce viral spread into less affected areas. This needs to be legally prohibited, including within England, so that it can be enforced; mere advice not to do so is likely to render the tier graded system ineffective. Drakeford is taking a reasonable approach; the problem is that the Westminster government is run by out-of-touch irrational arrogant toffs like Bojo and JRM. Covid regulations are a devolved matter and the Welsh government is fully entitled to set criteria for travel between Wales and high incidence areas in England.

I am sure JRM is aware of what is constitutional or not.

This divides the UK basically into clean or unclean - call it tier 2 or tier 3 - but basically if you are a 2 or a 3 you are in the "leper colony".

It is outrageous.

I spend virtually all of my time in Wales being so close to the border and to think all those heritage railways I regularly visit are closed off to be for as long as dictator Drakeford decides is just not acceptable. This could be one month, one year, five years? Come on we were told it would be normality at Christmas. It is about time all the politicians embraced the opinions of Sir Desmond Swyene and got the UK back to normal.

When I look at my own position in my road not one person has had Covid 19. None of my neighbours and near neighbours I speak to knows anyone who has Covid 19.

I am not someone who socialises regularly and the only person I have come into close contact with in the past week is my dentist who was all kitted up in multiple layers of PPE. He also performed a temperature check on me. I am not a risk to anyone. Thus using arbitrary lines drawn on a map is wrong

It is all morally wrong.

If you want to restrict travel why do stop checks with police armed with infrared thermometers and send people home who fail?

That would be fairer and more reasonable.

John

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not someone who socialises regularly and the only person I have come into close contact with in the past week is my dentist who was all kitted up in multiple layers of PPE.

During this I haven't been either, but I have now had two of those "buzzes" from the app which show a fleeting contact with someone who is infected (not enough to isolate) - and I live in an area with very low prevalence indeed. So there is risk.

I do however wonder if they were people who were walking past outside, as Bluetooth will go through glass, albeit at limited signal strength. My house is on one of the busy "walk to school" routes.

 

[John Luxton]

During this I haven't been either, but I have now had two of those "buzzes" from the app which show a fleeting contact with someone who is infected (not enough to isolate) - and I live in an area with very low prevalence indeed. So there is risk.

I do however wonder if they were people who were walking past outside, as Bluetooth will go through glass, albeit at limited signal strength. My house is on one of the busy "walk to school" routes.

An acquaintance of mine enthusiastically downloaded the app arguing it was his moral duty to do so despite my scepticism about keeping big brother in his pocket. Once he kept getting phantom warnings he deleted it.

No I am not being monitored like that either.

What people fail to realise is Covid is being used as excuse for increasing state control of the people. Of course it is dressed up as being in the interests of public health - but I fear this country is on the slippery slope unless the people wake up to what is going on.

I am not a conspiracy theorist - but one does wonder if some of the ideas being peddled by various groups have at least some grain of truth in them?

John

 

[Bletchleyite]

An acquaintance of mine enthusiastically downloaded the app arguing it was his moral duty to do so despite my scepticism about keeping big brother in his pocket. Once he kept getting phantom warnings he deleted it.

I think more should be made of those "phantom warnings" - "you were near someone who tested positive, but not for long enough to isolate, but maybe you should be thinking about how you are living to try to reduce these"? Gamify it a bit?